martin wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

martin wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

martin wrote:

MS wrote:That's the most important thing to keep in mind, great point Bonn; Baron Davis isn't part of the plan. That's why is so laughable when people keep bringing him up like he's been on the team.

If he gets injured we are not going to make the playoffs and of course we don't have a draft pick.

We can't build a contender anymore. Unless we move Melo. We don't have our amnesty and we are getting 50 cents on the dollar for Amare.

wait, what? Why isn't Baron or a PG part of the plan? That makes no sense.

He wasn't part of the plan starting 3 years ago to clear cap space - signing big name FAs was. Baron just fell into our laps.

Why does that make an iota of difference? He is on the team. And surely having a PG on the team is part of the plan.

It means that we don't need him to know whether the plan worked. What we see now is the result of the FA plan, and we can evaluate that now. He's someone we could have gotten without the specific cap space/starphuck plan.

Pretty sure that the plan is not done and included finding a PG. In fact, the building UP of the team only started 2 years ago with Amare. What's the point of evaluating now?

so you can complain about everything that isn't right yet.

martin wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

martin wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

martin wrote:

MS wrote:That's the most important thing to keep in mind, great point Bonn; Baron Davis isn't part of the plan. That's why is so laughable when people keep bringing him up like he's been on the team.

If he gets injured we are not going to make the playoffs and of course we don't have a draft pick.

We can't build a contender anymore. Unless we move Melo. We don't have our amnesty and we are getting 50 cents on the dollar for Amare.

wait, what? Why isn't Baron or a PG part of the plan? That makes no sense.

He wasn't part of the plan starting 3 years ago to clear cap space - signing big name FAs was. Baron just fell into our laps.

Why does that make an iota of difference? He is on the team. And surely having a PG on the team is part of the plan.

It means that we don't need him to know whether the plan worked. What we see now is the result of the FA plan, and we can evaluate that now. He's someone we could have gotten without the specific cap space/starphuck plan.

Pretty sure that the plan is not done and included finding a PG. In fact, the building UP of the team only started 2 years ago with Amare. What's the point of evaluating now?

Bonn1997 wrote:

martin wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

martin wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

martin wrote:

MS wrote:That's the most important thing to keep in mind, great point Bonn; Baron Davis isn't part of the plan. That's why is so laughable when people keep bringing him up like he's been on the team.

If he gets injured we are not going to make the playoffs and of course we don't have a draft pick.

We can't build a contender anymore. Unless we move Melo. We don't have our amnesty and we are getting 50 cents on the dollar for Amare.

wait, what? Why isn't Baron or a PG part of the plan? That makes no sense.

He wasn't part of the plan starting 3 years ago to clear cap space - signing big name FAs was. Baron just fell into our laps.

Why does that make an iota of difference? He is on the team. And surely having a PG on the team is part of the plan.

It means that we don't need him to know whether the plan worked. What we see now is the result of the FA plan, and we can evaluate that now. He's someone we could have gotten without the specific cap space/starphuck plan.

Pretty sure that the plan is not done and included finding a PG. In fact, the building UP of the team only started 2 years ago with Amare. What's the point of evaluating now?

They've used up the cap space that they cleared for the plan. The plan has been implemented. Anything else - like getting a serviceable PG - was not something unique to the cap space/starphuck plan and could have been done under any plan.

with logic like that I still don't understand how you got a PhD

Bonn1997 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

martin wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

martin wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

martin wrote:

MS wrote:That's the most important thing to keep in mind, great point Bonn; Baron Davis isn't part of the plan. That's why is so laughable when people keep bringing him up like he's been on the team.

If he gets injured we are not going to make the playoffs and of course we don't have a draft pick.

We can't build a contender anymore. Unless we move Melo. We don't have our amnesty and we are getting 50 cents on the dollar for Amare.

wait, what? Why isn't Baron or a PG part of the plan? That makes no sense.

He wasn't part of the plan starting 3 years ago to clear cap space - signing big name FAs was. Baron just fell into our laps.

Why does that make an iota of difference? He is on the team. And surely having a PG on the team is part of the plan.

It means that we don't need him to know whether the plan worked. What we see now is the result of the FA plan, and we can evaluate that now. He's someone we could have gotten without the specific cap space/starphuck plan.

Pretty sure that the plan is not done and included finding a PG. In fact, the building UP of the team only started 2 years ago with Amare. What's the point of evaluating now?

so you can complain about everything that isn't right yet.

If you love the team and it's sucked all decade and still sucks, you better be complaining.

is there some sort of statistic or poll that will tell us how this will end? i'd be interested in you producing it for all of us to see. or maybe we can get one of those flawless players in here.

the team isn't complete yet. no that's not an excuse, it's just a matter of fact. this team has no pg. you can't get every single piece in one offseason. starting from beginning of last year we got fields, amear, melo, shumpert, chandler, harrelson. quality bunch of players there. what's missing? a PG. hopefully baron is the answer, if not then we have to look elsewhere, like using the MLE after this season. you can believe whatever you want, you can call this team whatever you want, if you want to say this was a win-now year then go ahead, but you'd be wrong. this team wasn't built to win a championship this year because all the pieces aren't in place. if we get lucky and baron comes back healthy and 75% of the player he used to be then the plan accelerates a little quicker, if not we're still on track to use the mle this offseason.

i know everyone is ready to jump off a bridge but i really am calm cool and collected when it comes to talking about this team. has melo lost it? has amear turned 40 in one offseason? has d'antoni forgot how to coach offense since last year? patience is a virtue and so is a rebuild.

gunsnewing wrote:MDA went on the radio after they signed Tyson and said he believed this was a championship team this year. I think they overlooked the pg & shooting deficiencies. They thought they'd get away with TD as a serviceable pg because they figured it wouldn't be hard playing with "superstars" like tyson, melo & amare. But hey that happens. Good thing we got baron who wouldn't have even come if we didnt have those superstars. Just gotta keep adding the missing pieces now

Really hope they sign a piece or 2 in addition to Baron's arrival to bolster depth. Any of the overseas guys would do (Kmart, JR Smith, etc).

Bonn1997 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

martin wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

martin wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

martin wrote:

MS wrote:That's the most important thing to keep in mind, great point Bonn; Baron Davis isn't part of the plan. That's why is so laughable when people keep bringing him up like he's been on the team.

If he gets injured we are not going to make the playoffs and of course we don't have a draft pick.

We can't build a contender anymore. Unless we move Melo. We don't have our amnesty and we are getting 50 cents on the dollar for Amare.

wait, what? Why isn't Baron or a PG part of the plan? That makes no sense.

He wasn't part of the plan starting 3 years ago to clear cap space - signing big name FAs was. Baron just fell into our laps.

Why does that make an iota of difference? He is on the team. And surely having a PG on the team is part of the plan.

It means that we don't need him to know whether the plan worked. What we see now is the result of the FA plan, and we can evaluate that now. He's someone we could have gotten without the specific cap space/starphuck plan.

Pretty sure that the plan is not done and included finding a PG. In fact, the building UP of the team only started 2 years ago with Amare. What's the point of evaluating now?

so you can complain about everything that isn't right yet.

If you love the team and it's sucked all decade and still sucks, you better be complaining.

is there some sort of statistic or poll that will tell us how this will end? i'd be interested in you producing it for all of us to see. or maybe we can get one of those flawless players in here.

the team isn't complete yet. no that's not an excuse, it's just a matter of fact. this team has no pg. you can't get every single piece in one offseason. starting from beginning of last year we got fields, amear, melo, shumpert, chandler, harrelson. quality bunch of players there. what's missing? a PG. hopefully baron is the answer, if not then we have to look elsewhere, like using the MLE after this season. you can believe whatever you want, you can call this team whatever you want, if you want to say this was a win-now year then go ahead, but you'd be wrong. this team wasn't built to win a championship this year because all the pieces aren't in place. if we get lucky and baron comes back healthy and 75% of the player he used to be then the plan accelerates a little quicker, if not we're still on track to use the mle this offseason.

i know everyone is ready to jump off a bridge but i really am calm cool and collected when it comes to talking about this team. has melo lost it? has amear turned 40 in one offseason? has d'antoni forgot how to coach offense since last year? patience is a virtue and so is a rebuild.

If you're the owner and you make a big change to the roster every 6 months and many fans think that the team needs a year or more after each change before to evaluate it, you know what the brilliant outcome is? The owner's plan never gets judged - there's always excitement about the new big name and the potential the team has. The fans are in a perpetual state of waiting. Many of the apologists have been doing this for the whole decade - We just got Marbury (or Zach or Steve or Eddy or McDyess); give it some time. Eventually you have to pick up on what's going on. In a year, after this plan hasn't worked, Dolan will do another starphuck and you guys will pleading to give it more time and telling us we're rushing to judgment.

this is your problem, you're evaluating this team based on past moves and past teams. this isn't isiah making moves, it's not layden making moves, it's a completely different regime and i don't have complete confidence in grunwald but i think he has a decent idea of what he's doing. i am basing this team on the here and now, what we can do and what we've done since last year, not what we did 3-5-10 years ago.

you call the melo a starphuck, i don't. believe me, i will be the first person to tell you i didn't want to do that deal. i think gallo is going to be a very good p layer in this league and he's showing signs of that this year, but that doesn't stop me from evaluating melo and the team as a whole logically. i don't think melo is a FLAWLESS player, like some other guys that we could have gotten, but he's certainly not a marbury or anyone else that you call a starphuck. melo has his FLAWS, what player doesn't. but i feel he' definitely improved defensively this year, it seems he's improved his leadership and it seems like he's willing to put the work in to be a better complete player. melo's shooting numbers look dismal right now, yes, i get that. early in the year, melo was playing good team ball, he was shooting at a good clip and you could really see his effort defensively. fast forward to a team that's .500 or close to it and i think he's pressing because wants to win and he ends being more of a burden than a help. so he reverts to being a ballstopper because he's that confident he can put the team on his back and win. he can't.

i am going to sound like a broken record to the 100000000000th degree but if we had a REAL pg, a guy that has been a PG all his life in the pros running this team i don't think we'd be looking at half the problems we are right now. we had a pg in billups but he was a casualty to give us the chance to bring in a defensive player (something every knick fan has been clamoring for) to stabilize both our interior defense and rebounding problems and the team defense as whole. ok so we did that. expensive move but a smart one, sucks that we had to lose a heady PG in the process, but it's part rebuilding. so now we have scoring (melo, amear) we have defense (chandler, shumpert) we have solid role players (fields, harrelson, jeffries, walker, td) but what are we missing? PG. unforutunarely if you ask me, we are missing the most important component to any offense and especially in our case, where we have a player in amear who needs to play at a tempo to be successful and we have a player in carmelo who is arguably top3 scorer in the league and needs to be able to do his thing. how does this offense work? it CAN work, it just needs the right pg to make it work. it certainly can't work with a rookie sg who likes to shoot and have the ball in his hands too. you need a guy who can put his ego aside, play the tempo the coach wants to play and keep both melo and amear happy.

so what am i blabbering on about? not even 1.5yrs into this rebuild and we're missing one key component. not bad. can we obviously do better in other areas? yes, we really lack shooting and a bench also, but we can find that. do we have the answer to what i think is our biggest problem on the bench already in baron? if he's healthy, i think so. big if. if he's not, oh well, we got lucky and were able to sign him on the cheap. we went into this year knowing pg was going to be a problem because we didn't get a chance to address it yet. if baron doesn't work out i have full complete confidence we will be able to use that MLE this summer to find the guy to make this thing work.

it's really not rocket science if you ask me, but hey, just my opinion.

arkrud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

LarrythaLeo wrote:But I wan't to judge this team after Baron Davis is healthy....I see him on the sidelines trying to motivate people like STAT...I hope he doesn't try to come back early and is truly healthy when he makes his return. This team is missing that floor general, that brain on the court. Let's be patient and see what becomes of this team in February.

Baron Davis was never part of the plan. What we're seeing right now is the roster we spent 3 years sucking and clearing cap space for. (If Baron plays well and helps the team, it will be a bonus, though.)

What plan?

the plan was to get better players, period.

not even 1.5yrs into this rebuild and we're missing one key component.

Bonn1997 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

LarrythaLeo wrote:But I wan't to judge this team after Baron Davis is healthy....I see him on the sidelines trying to motivate people like STAT...I hope he doesn't try to come back early and is truly healthy when he makes his return. This team is missing that floor general, that brain on the court. Let's be patient and see what becomes of this team in February.

Baron Davis was never part of the plan. What we're seeing right now is the roster we spent 3 years sucking and clearing cap space for. (If Baron plays well and helps the team, it will be a bonus, though.)

What plan?

the plan was to get better players, period.

Wow, I can't believe previous GMs hadn't thought of that!

that's your response? to that whole post before? you know what, it aint even worth engaging you.

Bonn1997 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

LarrythaLeo wrote:But I wan't to judge this team after Baron Davis is healthy....I see him on the sidelines trying to motivate people like STAT...I hope he doesn't try to come back early and is truly healthy when he makes his return. This team is missing that floor general, that brain on the court. Let's be patient and see what becomes of this team in February.

Baron Davis was never part of the plan. What we're seeing right now is the roster we spent 3 years sucking and clearing cap space for. (If Baron plays well and helps the team, it will be a bonus, though.)

What plan?

the plan was to get better players, period.

Wow, I can't believe previous GMs hadn't thought of that!

that's your response? to that whole post before? you know what, it aint even worth engaging you.

Then don't.

i won't then, what would be the point if you can't carry on a discussion? i guess nalod was right all this time.