BRIGGS wrote:The trouble with throwing all of our eggs in one basket(something that made me shue off the Knicks for the first time in almost 40 years last year)is if any of the two big eggs crack--this franchise is in deep sht.

It's a gamble yes, but one that applies to every team with a player who earns a max contract. You take those chances because you need stars to win, and need to pay them like stars.

knicks1248 wrote:

colombian0725 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Last season Amare made every player around him better, this year everyone is struggling but Melo..HMMM

Not to mention MDA change his entire playbook for Melo, or dummy it down..How come the core of players that started the season last year are playing pooly and inconsistant this yr in basically the same system.

Some of you guy's clearly don't take the time to look at every thing thats happening on the floor..Amare has no room to operate, the PnR is hardly ever run right with him, he doesn't look comfortable at all, not with melo, or tyson..

Not sure why MDA hasn't played Jorts and Amare more without tyson and Melo on the floor..IMO the two best line ups

Jorts Tyson
Amare Jorts
Bill/ melo
Fields shrump
Bibby TD
Not sure how you juggle it, but that seems like the best chemistry

You can start Amare, then rest him early, have him play his bulk of minutes with the bench..I know someone started a thread about having Amare coming off the bench, which is crazy, but he needs to play with the bench more cause those guys around him spread the floor and PASS THE BALL..Jorts needs to be the first guy off the bench for real..

Dude Amare struggled with melo out. 6 pts and 10 pts... Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

With out melo we look like a bad team. with melo we can sorta keep up. How many times do we bench melo and let amare play and we have to bring melo back in to score?

Im not trying to make excuse for amare, but guys are missing wide open shots on the perimeter..You see jorts getting those wide open three's, well guess where is man is going to be, lingering in the post..there not even honering his (jorts)shot yet..

There was reason Why Howard wasn't a factor..If our perimeter players start making shots consistantly, you will see Amare back to his normal self..If you get a pg that knows how to run a Pnr and can shoot the 3 ball, you will see amare back to his normal self..when Melo learns how to play off the ball, you will see amare back to his normal self.

But you just said "Melo hmmmmm" placing the blame on melo but when melo is out injured he still puts up Pathetic numbers.

Childs2Dudly I agree with you. I use to praise Amare as much as the next guy but I started to really like him when I saw him get out of the way of layups that even melo would have atleast attempted to block or foul the **** of the guy like he does lol.

Childs2Dudley wrote:If I could trade Amare right now for prime Charles Oakley I would. What you lose in talent you gain in toughness and defense and rebounding. And guess what? At the end of the day, as Carmelo likes to say, defense is going to win you a championship. Amar'e running out of the way any time anyone drives on him will not win us a championship. Amare seems to be mentally weak and cannot handle the pressure when the going gets tough. The going is tough right now and he continues to play like garbage on both ends. Amare is paid superstar money and the Knicks advertise him as one so naturally fans expect him to be one. He isn't, though. If I could trade Amare for Deron I would do it yesterday. I am tired of sticking up for Amare. I was singing his praises for a long time but it's clear to me he plays more for himself than the team.

This team right now is lacking severely in mental toughness. It's not just PG play. The offense wasn't awful today and it has shown flashes of being good. The team just seems to quit during games and it's getting pathetic at this point. They don't play hard for 48 minutes and this is maddening to any fan. I want to see a team leave their hearts on the court every night, even if they're off that game and get blown out. Just play hard. Don't slack off and let guys like Ryan Anderson clown you. This happens way too often for me to overlook it. Baron Davis wont change this part of the game. The team needs to develop that mentality.

If you believe Baron Davis (32 years old, bad back, history of injuries) is coming in here and we're suddenly dominating people I think you're going to be in for a rude awakening. The dynamic of the team will change, sure, but not drastically enough to make this team go from mediocre to elite.

You were praising this guy last season, 9 straight games of 30+ points, 2nd in the league in block shots, 3 ast..comes into camp well rested in shape..he's had maybe 4 or 5 bad games and you guys are ready to sell him off like old news, after 3 friggin weeks and a few bad games..

Melo or Tyson wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for Amare being here, Not one other star came to this team when we were the laughing stock of the basket ball world, this guy made us relevent, with his attitude and commitment, put us back on a national level..he's a poor defender for sure, but so is dirk, so was allan hoston..he's never going to be a top notch defender..so be it, there trying to surround him with better defesive players, shts not going to happen over night..

You want to tell be Amare has lost it in less the 10 months with no signifacant injury other then a back issue that he rested for 8 months..he hasn't complain about any knee issues and he isn't sitting on the bench wrap in ice..we need to be patient..folks

you want to tell me that JJ reddick, Ryand Anderson, turk-a-who and nelson, are defensive guys that made us miss shots..give me a break..

We got a pg that is avg less then 4 ast with 2 of the top 5 scorers in the entire league on his team..A system in which every sinlge PG as blossom and there numbers become steroid like..

BRIGGS wrote:The trouble with throwing all of our eggs in one basket(something that made me shue off the Knicks for the first time in almost 40 years last year)is if any of the two big eggs crack--this franchise is in deep sht.

Briggs, are we doomed at this point? If we didn't trade for Melo, we could have still have signed Chandler to our pre Melo Knicks.
Amnesty Stat if we can't trade him for this years FAs.

You are one of the people I give lots of credit to. Even though we don't have any draft picks for your to analyze, I think many of us miss your post...

no homo

knicks1248 wrote:You were praising this guy last season, 9 straight games of 30+ points, 2nd in the league in block shots, 3 ast..comes into camp well rested in shape..he's had maybe 4 or 5 bad games and you guys are ready to sell him off like old news, after 3 friggin weeks and a few bad games..

Melo or Tyson wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for Amare being here, Not one other star came to this team when we were the laughing stock of the basket ball world, this guy made us relevent, with his attitude and commitment, put us back on a national level..he's a poor defender for sure, but so is dirk, so was allan hoston..he's never going to be a top notch defender..so be it, there trying to surround him with better defesive players, shts not going to happen over night..

You want to tell be Amare has lost it in less the 10 months with no signifacant injury other then a back issue that he rested for 8 months..he hasn't complain about any knee issues and he isn't sitting on the bench wrap in ice..we need to be patient..folks

you want to tell me that JJ reddick, Ryand Anderson, turk-a-who and nelson, are defensive guys that made us miss shots..give me a break..

We got a pg that is avg less then 4 ast with 2 of the top 5 scorers in the entire league on his team..A system in which every sinlge PG as blossom and there numbers become steroid like..

Honestly: Thank you! I agree with you on so many points in this post! How quickly people forget...

colombian0725 wrote:So a max player that cannot create for himself. Needs a point guard to be effective. Cannot play defense. Cannot rebound !!!! How quickly you all forget about that. I think it's stupid that Amare who is a max player Does not play defense, rebound and now he needs a point guard to be effective. It makes no damn sense. When are people going to admit that he isn't the great player we thought if he needs a point guard to score.

So, when are people starting to realise that it (basketball that is) is not about single players doing there thing, but about how multiple single players fit into a concept that is called "team"?

Only if you have A, B and C in place, D and E will work. The reason why players that were playing really good team ball last year, are playing like crap this year is simple: no team ball is being played.

Right: Stat should rebound more. He should not foul that much. His Ts are just useless stupidity and frustration/frustrating. His shot should fall and so on.

But what to do? Jump up and down, argue that he is no max player because he is playing like crap? Trading him? In best case you trade him, Toney, Fields and fire D'antoni while were at it. You know what you have then? A Team in rebuilding mode, playing Meloball all the way with a much worse supporting cast than hes ever had in Denver. A team that, by the way, has to find itself and will play like crap along the way.

Or: You could wait like 3-4 more weeks. Wait for Baron. If hes just a shade of what he could be for this team, you will see production of STAT, Fields and Toney go up. You will see that MDAs "system" works.

If Baron is not the answer, you could wait for next year and the available PGs. Or you still can blow this whole thing to hell and start a new line of exciting Knicks Meloball!

SteveSmith wrote:

colombian0725 wrote:So a max player that cannot create for himself. Needs a point guard to be effective. Cannot play defense. Cannot rebound !!!! How quickly you all forget about that. I think it's stupid that Amare who is a max player Does not play defense, rebound and now he needs a point guard to be effective. It makes no damn sense. When are people going to admit that he isn't the great player we thought if he needs a point guard to score.

So, when are people starting to realise that it (basketball that is) is not about single players doing there thing, but about how multiple single players fit into a concept that is called "team"?

Only if you have A, B and C in place, D and E will work. The reason why players that were playing really good team ball last year, are playing like crap this year is simple: no team ball is being played.

Right: Stat should rebound more. He should not foul that much. His Ts are just useless stupidity and frustration/frustrating. His shot should fall and so on.

But what to do? Jump up and down, argue that he is no max player because he is playing like crap? Trading him? In best case you trade him, Toney, Fields and fire D'antoni while were at it. You know what you have then? A Team in rebuilding mode, playing Meloball all the way with a much worse supporting cast than hes ever had in Denver. A team that, by the way, has to find itself and will play like crap along the way.

Or: You could wait like 3-4 more weeks. Wait for Baron. If hes just a shade of what he could be for this team, you will see production of STAT, Fields and Toney go up. You will see that MDAs "system" works.

If Baron is not the answer, you could wait for next year and the available PGs. Or you still can blow this whole thing to hell and start a new line of exciting Knicks Meloball!

He is not a max player because he is not creating his own shot. Amare is being counted on this team to score points and play his position and that's rebound and not hide whenever someone comes in to lay up or dunk. How many times have ween seen him step aside and allow a dunk or lay up when Jorts jumps straight up with his arms and contests shots. Amare max player is supposed to at least be able to create for himself esp when melo is out with an injury. I mean look at Chris Bosh getting 33 points without wade or Lebron and leading Miami to a victory over ATL in a game we clearly would lose. He had a rookie in Cole and Mario Chalmers who at this point wouldn't start on many teams and isn't exactly the best passer. Bosh found ways to score. He took the ball in the post. I would take Chris Bosh at this point on this team with Melo. Chris Bosh is now banging in the paint with that little frame of his and he is scoring. I used to bash Bosh but he is actually taking the ball in the post and posting his man up and scoring. In a game where Bosh was playing without Wade and Lebron he had other parts of his game that he used to score. Post up game. Amare even with Melo out and ball movement hasn't been able to score. He is supposed to be a scorer. Scorers should be able to create offense. Amare is being exposed and now is looking like a role player that cannot create for himself. He requires a pg. It's pretty clear that he cannot be the number one guy if he cannot score because he does not have a point guard.

smackeddog wrote:I wish Amar'e would break out of his slump, but it pains me to see him being used so badly. There are no 3 pt shooters for him to pass to or to free up space in the middle. We have no point guard to get him the ball where he likes it. We don't really run any pick and rolls for him (when thats his biggest strength, and players don't really pass to him or even look for him in the 4th Q.

No one ever said he's a superstar, put he is one of the best PF's in the game. He needs the right system and players to be effective- it would be great if he could excel regardless, but he can't- few players can. I hate the way people have completely erased his performance all of last year (or indeed any past year of his career), and decided that the Amar'e we've seen for the first 13 games (and he had a few good games amongst those) is the Amar'e that has always existed and will be forever more.

I hope he turns things around against the Suns- he should have extra motivation after his performance vs Orlando, and because it's his former team- I hate seeing him embarras himself with they way he's played lately.

there are certainly a lot of things that could help Amare be more successful on the Knicks: outside shooters, PnR PG.

On the other hand, there are a lot of things Amare could do to help with the outcome of Knicks' games: play better defense, box out, not foul so early and often, make a 15 foot jumpshot, rebound.

smackeddog wrote:

martin wrote:there are certainly a lot of things that could help Amare be more successful on the Knicks: outside shooters, PnR PG.

On the other hand, there are a lot of things Amare could do to help with the outcome of Knicks' games: play better defense, box out, not foul so early and often, make a 15 foot jumpshot, rebound.

I agree- in some games, like yesterday, you can see he's not making the effort- that is unacceptable. I can forgive him for not making the 15ft jump shots because he's put on too much muscle, and couldn't play basketball in the offseason (look at Dirk, he didn't do much in the offseason and it shows). It's a two way thing- the team needs accomodate him more, but like you said, he also needs to do his part and bring the effort.

The team flat out can't accommodate him more. The 15 foot jumpshot is a part of his arsenal and is off. We don't have a PG capable of running the team quite yet.

Amare can, however, do all of those things we both think he should be doing: he needs to accommodate the Knicks team with better leadership and play.

martin wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

martin wrote:there are certainly a lot of things that could help Amare be more successful on the Knicks: outside shooters, PnR PG.

On the other hand, there are a lot of things Amare could do to help with the outcome of Knicks' games: play better defense, box out, not foul so early and often, make a 15 foot jumpshot, rebound.

I agree- in some games, like yesterday, you can see he's not making the effort- that is unacceptable. I can forgive him for not making the 15ft jump shots because he's put on too much muscle, and couldn't play basketball in the offseason (look at Dirk, he didn't do much in the offseason and it shows). It's a two way thing- the team needs accomodate him more, but like you said, he also needs to do his part and bring the effort.

The team flat out can't accommodate him more. The 15 foot jumpshot is a part of his arsenal and is off. We don't have a PG capable of running the team quite yet.

Amare can, however, do all of those things we both think he should be doing: he needs to accommodate the Knicks team with better leadership and play.

Exactly. If Amar'e decided to grab 15 boards and scored only 6 points, he would be cool in The Answer Man's book.

If Amar'e's shot is not dropping, for whatever reason - point guard included, it is up to HIM to make another contribution.

Anything.