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Yes, We Have No Depth
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MSG3
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1/10/2012  1:09 PM
As well as Shumpert is playing I think that once Baron Davis has a few games under his belt Shump should return to the bench. Landry still looks lost but has shown some signs with an actual PG on the floor this season so I think he'll remain a starter:

C Chandler/Harrellson
PF Stoudemire/Jeffries
SF Anthony/Walker
SG Fields/TD/Bibby
PG Davis/Shump/Bibby

And if it's tru taht Kenyon Martin is going to sign with us in March that will add even more depth. Definitely an issue but I think we have some options going forward.
AUTOADVERT
gunsnewing
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1/10/2012  1:26 PM
I don't believe in the theory that we have no depth. We have 5 stars. In the early 90s it was Ewing and 14 other role players maybe Starks as a borderline allstar. It is up to the coaches to get the most out of the role players on the roster and put them in positions to succeed. Playing TD and Walker together isn't working play Novak. Luckily JJ & Davis will be back soon and we won't have to ever see Walker again.
RonRon
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1/10/2012  1:28 PM
MSG3 wrote:As well as Shumpert is playing I think that once Baron Davis has a few games under his belt Shump should return to the bench. Landry still looks lost but has shown some signs with an actual PG on the floor this season so I think he'll remain a starter:

C Chandler/Harrellson
PF Stoudemire/Jeffries
SF Anthony/Walker
SG Fields/TD/Bibby
PG Davis/Shump/Bibby

And if it's tru taht Kenyon Martin is going to sign with us in March that will add even more depth. Definitely an issue but I think we have some options going forward.

its hard to say, Shumpert is causing a lot of chaos with his defense on the PG's as well. He also can finish and penetrate really well, love that alley oop Tyson Chandler threw to him. Most PG's in the league just doesn't have the physical ability to guard this guy. We have to continue to watch Iman play and see how he does vs good/great defensive teams.
Also scouts don't have much information on him yet, he won't be under the radar very soon. I just loved everything about this kid though. The way he talks, his confidence, his effort, he seems very intelligent as well, and that SWAGGER!
smackeddog
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1/10/2012  1:30 PM
JJ is coming back, and although he is the worst offensive player in the league, he can hold things down defensively. BD will hopefully be coming back in a few weeks. Bibby when healthy may be able to provide an offensive spark. Also maybe TD gets out of his slump (remember he could play bball til November due to the operation he had- if we don't destroy his confidence, he might start playing better in time). So we're not completely screwed- the problem is if Melo or Stat get injured, we're really going to struggle.
knicks1248
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1/10/2012  1:45 PM
Yesterday nbatv ask shrump why is it that guys start standing around in the 4 th qtr while melo takes all the shots? He said that's the game plan from the coach..give it to arguably the best scorer in the league and let him mAke the decision along with Amare..

Funny how 2 season ago we were complaining about not having a goto guy/closer, now we have one of the best in the business and were worried about getting role players involve...gimme a break..melo gets the big bucks for what he does...I ll feed his ass the ball everytime

ES
misterearl
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1/10/2012  1:50 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/10/2012  1:50 PM
knicks1248 wrote:Yesterday nbatv ask shrump why is it that guys start standing around in the 4 th qtr while melo takes all the shots? He said that's the game plan from the coach..give it to arguably the best scorer in the league and let him mAke the decision along with Amare..

Funny how 2 season ago we were complaining about not having a goto guy/closer, now we have one of the best in the business and were worried about getting role players involve...gimme a break..melo gets the big bucks for what he does...I ll feed his ass the ball everytime

knicks1248 - The issue with depth is not so simple as closing out games. When D'Antoni goes to the bench late in the first quarter, can the reserves (A) hold a lead, (B) increase a lead or (C) do they, lacking the ability to score, fall behind? ... putting more pressure on the key starters to return before the game gets out of hand?

once a knick always a knick
gunsnewing
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1/10/2012  1:55 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/10/2012  2:00 PM
misterearl wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Yesterday nbatv ask shrump why is it that guys start standing around in the 4 th qtr while melo takes all the shots? He said that's the game plan from the coach..give it to arguably the best scorer in the league and let him mAke the decision along with Amare..

Funny how 2 season ago we were complaining about not having a goto guy/closer, now we have one of the best in the business and were worried about getting role players involve...gimme a break..melo gets the big bucks for what he does...I ll feed his ass the ball everytime

knicks1248 - The issue with depth is not so simple as closing out games. When D'Antoni goes to the bench late in the first quarter, can the reserves (A) hold a lead, (B) increase a lead or (C) do they, lacking the ability to score, fall behind? ... putting more pressure on the key starters to return before the game gets out of hand?

All great points Earl but I think the bench will improve with Jeffries D which will help keep the opposing team from going on huge runs. TD getting his confidence back eventually..tough right now because its at an alltime low after losing his starting job and getting Davis back will make us deeper
misterearl
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1/10/2012  1:56 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/10/2012  2:03 PM
gunsnewing wrote:Insert Novak for Walker and our bench will improve. Also the bench won't look as bad when TD gets his confidence back and Landry is moved to the bench where he will score in transition against the other teams 2nd unit. Kenyon Martin will also fit nicely in that second unit as long as Davis or Shumpert are running the point.


I can also see Davis coming off the bench for the 1st few games until he gets in the flow

gunsnewing - even IF Toney Douglas gets his confidence back... he never lost it.... he simply was exposed for his lack of ability to direct an offensive play from inside the three point arc....

... even IF Douglas continues to get minutes, how does ANY player survive New York if the boos continue?

It will not be a matter of confidence as much as it is perception, and the court of public opinion has gotten so vocal that ANY error by Douglas is magnified 19,763 times.

Booing NJ Net Chris Humphries caught on and it became the thing to do. That did not make it right.

That said, a bouncy Baron Davis would be a beautiful thing. Just cannot pin any hopes on him until he slips a New York jersey over his head and demonstrates he is pain-free.

Injuries have nasty habit of not following the script.

once a knick always a knick
gunsnewing
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1/10/2012  2:03 PM
I saw TD play well at the end of the year last year backing up Billups and starting. No he is never going to be able to orchestrate an offense but he if can get his shot back he will be effective off the bench at the 1 or 2.
misterearl
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1/10/2012  2:06 PM
gunsnewing wrote:I saw TD play well at the end of the year last year backing up Billups and starting. No he is never going to be able to orchestrate an offense but he if can get his shot back he will be effective off the bench at the 1 or 2.

Remember how fans at MSG would groan every time Oak would attempt a jumper?

This is not about whether Toney Douglas has valid guard skills. Douglas is on the verge of being booed when he reports to the scorers table.

The Answer Man would not wish that on anyone.

once a knick always a knick
knicks1248
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1/10/2012  3:32 PM
misterearl wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:I saw TD play well at the end of the year last year backing up Billups and starting. No he is never going to be able to orchestrate an offense but he if can get his shot back he will be effective off the bench at the 1 or 2.

Remember how fans at MSG would groan every time Oak would attempt a jumper?

This is not about whether Toney Douglas has valid guard skills. Douglas is on the verge of being booed when he reports to the scorers table.

The Answer Man would not wish that on anyone.



He has a right to get booed...its one thing when ur in a shooting slump..but when you can't do anything right , defend, missing wide open shots, not penetrating , and your overall performance just sucks...believe it or not..ny fans don't want to see that when its hindering the entire team and you suppose to be a major player in the game..its not like he's some 12 th man.
ES
sealy
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1/10/2012  3:37 PM
I really think Baron is gonna do well when he comes back and will be a solid 3rd scorer. Dude has been my favorite player for a while and I'm definitely looking at it through blue and orange shades. Cannot wait for him to get out there.

What about Mike James for depth? I heard he looks good in the D league and he could be a cheap option that would allow TD to heal and maybe learn to not to run full speed into every screen set on him.
crzymdups
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1/10/2012  3:40 PM
this is what i expect to be the rotation come like march 15th or so:

Baron / Bibby
Iman / Toney / Walker
Melo / Fields / Jeffries
Amar'e / Kmart
Tyson / Jorts

not great. i would feel much more confident about the bench if we had Anthony Carter instead of Bibby. and i'd feel more comfortable with Shawne Williams on the roster than Kmart.

¿ △ ?
sealy
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1/10/2012  3:41 PM
http://www.nba.com/dleague/video/2012/01/09/20120109idaerirecapmov-1960015/index.html
Knixkik
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1/10/2012  4:27 PM
crzymdups wrote:this is what i expect to be the rotation come like march 15th or so:

Baron / Bibby
Iman / Toney / Walker
Melo / Fields / Jeffries
Amar'e / Kmart
Tyson / Jorts

not great. i would feel much more confident about the bench if we had Anthony Carter instead of Bibby. and i'd feel more comfortable with Shawne Williams on the roster than Kmart.

I disagree with your last statements. KMart is the ideal backup big man for this team. Williams brought some good things to the table, but if you're trying to win a championship, KMart is more valuable. Also, Bibby provides more than Carter. He can shoot and take care of the ball. Remember he is only a couple years removed from being an above average starting PG in this league. He's fallen off but can still provide a spark off the bench.
nixluva
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1/10/2012  4:52 PM
Fields and TD have to come around and contribute at their normal level. If they improve then all of a sudden the team has more punch. I think a guy like Novak doesn't get much respect and so they don't go to him, even tho it's clear he's got a GREAT stroke. That may change over time, but right now he hasn't fit into the plan. It's hard not to lean too much on Melo and STAT.

IMO Melo is taking too many shots. Melo isn't a super efficient scorer, but he's a clutch shooter that you must have. It's not good for the team to force feed Melo in the middle of the game tho. Much better when the ball keeps moving and they can breakdown the defense. That's high % MDA BB.
RonRon
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1/10/2012  5:00 PM
crzymdups wrote:this is what i expect to be the rotation come like march 15th or so:

Baron / Bibby
Iman / Toney / Walker
Melo / Fields / Jeffries
Amar'e / Kmart
Tyson / Jorts

not great. i would feel much more confident about the bench if we had Anthony Carter instead of Bibby. and i'd feel more comfortable with Shawne Williams on the roster than Kmart.

I think Iman has shown he can run the team good enough as the PG, more importantly on the defensive end, he creates chaos and a mismatch.
He surprisingly can play both positions well, I think he will continue to play both positions depending on matchups...
We have to rotate efficiently as i believe Iman should start regardless but only Baron Davis and Iman are able to play PG effectively.
Bibby and TD would be used as PGs playing SGs in a sense because they won't be handling the ball or facilitating
with Melo helping out at times as well at point/forward

I don't think TD and Bibby can coexist together, neither can penetrate...
They both can hit open shots and whoever is playing better should get to play for the game...
I would also prefer Ak47 than Kmart if possible, however, Kmart would probably be the 2nd best one available...

Baron/Iman/Bibby/TD
Iman/Fields/TD
Melo/Fields/ak47/Balkman
Amare/Ak47/JJ/Jorts
Tyson/Jorts/Ak47/Jordan
misterearl
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1/10/2012  5:06 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/10/2012  5:07 PM
nixluva wrote:Fields and TD have to come around and contribute at their normal level. If they improve then all of a sudden the team has more punch. I think a guy like Novak doesn't get much respect and so they don't go to him, even tho it's clear he's got a GREAT stroke. That may change over time, but right now he hasn't fit into the plan. It's hard not to lean too much on Melo and STAT.

IMO Melo is taking too many shots. Melo isn't a super efficient scorer, but he's a clutch shooter that you must have. It's not good for the team to force feed Melo in the middle of the game tho. Much better when the ball keeps moving and they can breakdown the defense. That's high % MDA BB.

nixluva - your take may illustrate the fragile balance between Carmelo and Stoudemire. Melo is one of those rare stars who can get his shot whenever he wants - and that can be a problem when Stoudemire feels neglected and resorts to hoisting three's. Both of them need to think pass first, unless it is a situation where the Knicks need to get to the free throw line, and even then they need to get their offense within the context of team, and not individual, play.

This is why Shumpert is so valuable. He appears to be the only other Knicks player who clearly directs Carmelo and Stoudemire where to go. There was a play last night where Shumpert was positioning a Knicks player while he wasn't handling the ball.

That is discipline.

Carmelo and Stoudemire could both use some of that.

once a knick always a knick
gunsnewing
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1/10/2012  6:42 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/10/2012  6:42 PM
nixluva wrote:Fields and TD have to come around and contribute at their normal level. If they improve then all of a sudden the team has more punch. I think a guy like Novak doesn't get much respect and so they don't go to him, even tho it's clear he's got a GREAT stroke. That may change over time, but right now he hasn't fit into the plan. It's hard not to lean too much on Melo and STAT.

IMO Melo is taking too many shots. Melo isn't a super efficient scorer, but he's a clutch shooter that you must have. It's not good for the team to force feed Melo in the middle of the game tho. Much better when the ball keeps moving and they can breakdown the defense. That's high % MDA BB.

Correct Fields will look good playing against other teams 2nd unit and away from Melo
misterearl
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1/29/2012  10:10 PM
gunsnewing wrote:I saw TD play well at the end of the year last year backing up Billups and starting. No he is never going to be able to orchestrate an offense but he if can get his shot back he will be effective off the bench at the 1 or 2.

It ain't that deep.

Turning the ball over nearly as much as you generate an assist is unacceptable. We need to get real and get rid of the people who are incapable of playing cohesive basketball. In order for the Knicks to take a step forward - Walker, Douglas, Jeffries and Bibby must be upgraded with a skill forward who can spot Carmelo, a power forward who can get Amar'es back and a lead guard who will not be abused by Russell Westbrook.

The Knicks are desperate for a supporting cast who can pass and catch the basketball with crispness.

Enough with the silly three point shots.

Move the ball and get closer to the rim.

once a knick always a knick
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