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Why are we not considering Shumpert at PG?
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misterearl
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1/6/2012  5:24 PM
Panos wrote:
misterearl wrote:Guards, shmards...

Portland is running the West with Raymond Felton and three other former Knicks on the roster - Marcus Camby, Kurt Thomas and Jamal Crawford.

Something ain't right about that

The only answer must be chemistry.

Either way you slice it, Raymond Felton and Jamal Crawford make an entertaining backcourt combination.

Gallinari at the three. David Lee. Tyson Chandler. Yeah, if I ruled the world, then I would bring Wilson Chandler off the bench with Landry Fields.

Don Chaney is the head coach. Yeah, that's the ticket.

once a knick always a knick
AUTOADVERT
Leafer
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1/6/2012  8:44 PM
Well I like what I see tonight and it's what I had in mind. Glad to see it.
skeng
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Denmark
1/6/2012  8:52 PM
Legalize di NBA
ChuckBuck
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1/6/2012  9:34 PM
Good thread name
DrAlphaeus
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1/6/2012  9:42 PM
Leafer wrote:Well I like what I see tonight and it's what I had in mind. Glad to see it.

Impressive for your first thread! Welcome? (I minus 20000 from the count, right? I suck at math.)

Baba Booey 2016 — "It's Silly Season"
crzymdups
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1/7/2012  2:48 AM
Leafer wrote:Well I like what I see tonight and it's what I had in mind. Glad to see it.

haha. good call. shump for president. shump for starting pg.

¿ △ ?
SteveSmith
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1/7/2012  6:21 AM
Most important is that he defends the opposing playmaker. The more he defends the ballhandler, the more he will hurt their offense.

Aside of that, I co-sign blexec's view of guards and forwards.

nadavshomron
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Israel
1/7/2012  11:14 AM
the lineup of shump-fields-mello-amare-tyson is our best defensive lineup
TD is not a PG he is a nice combo guard off the bench
until barron davis returns shump should start and finish games for us.
LJ FOR 4!!!!
technomaster
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1/7/2012  12:04 PM
I think a couple of years down the road, folks won't be debating whether he's a PG or SG. He may not reach Wade's pinnacle of success, but he'll simply be one of those guys that you want on the floor. Our pal Dwyane Wade spent ample minutes effectively running the PG spot early in his career, usually leading his teams in assists. He wasn't really accused of being a prototypical PG - it's just that his team's played better when he was in the game.

Maybe we're starting to see this out of Shumpert. At PG, he's a size/length mismatch - his height allows him to see the floor. He's uncommonly quick, allowing him to keep up with the little fast guys in spite of his size. By virtue of being bigger, he doesn't need to be as tricky or creative to be effective - but if he does have that wrinkle to his game, then we're really in for a treat.

At SG, he's just about the right size - but he's quicker and more athletic than most SGs, allowing him to slice by them and heck, jump over them. But his ball handling and passing skills also probably exceed most SGs, so he becomes at least a strong double threat.

The key question about his game lies in his shooting ability. The Knicks staff seemed convinced that his form is sound - it's a matter of curbing the off-balance shots. Sure he's capable of making some of them, but like the great players in the NBA, he'll need to learn when to roll the dice on a tough shot or when to pass up the opportunity to get the team a better shot (whether getting the ball to a teammate or setting up all over again).

In any case, we're probably looking at someone along the lines of a young Michael Finley or Sprewell...

“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
gunsnewing
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1/7/2012  12:39 PM
technomaster wrote:

The key question about his game lies in his shooting ability. The Knicks staff seemed convinced that his form is sound - it's a matter of curbing the off-balance shots. Sure he's capable of making some of them, but like the great players in the NBA, he'll need to learn when to roll the dice on a tough shot or when to pass up the opportunity to get the team a better shot (whether getting the ball to a teammate or setting up all over again).


I agree that is the one part of his game that needs to improve but it will with time. The stroke is there just have to cut down on the off-balanced stuff

gunsnewing
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1/7/2012  12:46 PM
its crazy to have a 6'5 PG with Iman's quickness what a matchup nightmare for the opposing backcourt! This can potentially turn out great
loweyecue
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1/7/2012  3:09 PM
Well he has a long way to go before he can be considered a reliable staring PG. he has definitely shown some passing skills but so far he seems to be a two guard who can also create off the dribble.
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nixluva
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1/7/2012  4:08 PM
loweyecue wrote:Well he has a long way to go before he can be considered a reliable staring PG. he has definitely shown some passing skills but so far he seems to be a two guard who can also create off the dribble.

IMO from everything I saw of this kid since before the draft, he's got just enough PG skills to be useful at the position. People forget that D. Rose isn't a pure PG either. He's gotten better at it tho. These guys are kind of like Steph in that they're mostly scorers, but they CAN make the pass and have a sense of what to do at the PG spot. I've compared Shump to D. Wade who is a guard that is in between a SG and PG. A lot of pure SG's just don't have any PG skills, but that's not the case with Shump.

Since Iman has been handling the ball most of his career he's comfortable doing it, but he's never going to be a Chris Paul type.

blkexec
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1/7/2012  4:16 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/7/2012  4:17 PM
nixluva wrote:
loweyecue wrote:Well he has a long way to go before he can be considered a reliable staring PG. he has definitely shown some passing skills but so far he seems to be a two guard who can also create off the dribble.

IMO from everything I saw of this kid since before the draft, he's got just enough PG skills to be useful at the position. People forget that D. Rose isn't a pure PG either. He's gotten better at it tho. These guys are kind of like Steph in that they're mostly scorers, but they CAN make the pass and have a sense of what to do at the PG spot. I've compared Shump to D. Wade who is a guard that is in between a SG and PG. A lot of pure SG's just don't have any PG skills, but that's not the case with Shump.

Since Iman has been handling the ball most of his career he's comfortable doing it, but he's never going to be a Chris Paul type.

Be careful when you say he's never going to be something...You might have to bite your own words.

I will say that he's better than any of our current PG's....and on the same level, if not better than some of our past PG's. So why can't he be our PG.

Regardless of what anybody wants to name him or place him, he's our best perimeter defender, so he needs to play major minutes. He must be on the floor, just from a defensive perspective. What he provides on offense is just an added bonus.

If a defensive culture has to change around here....then we have to start looking and analyzing things from a DEFENSIVE MINDSET....Then you will see where everybody fits. For example, playing Bibby and Douglas at the sametime is suicide.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
misterearl
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1/7/2012  4:36 PM
"..he's never going to be a Chris Paul type."

Only Chris Paul is a Chris Paul type. Comparisons are crazy. What is the point of holding one player up against another?

Shumpert is the first player in the history of the NBA with his first and last name, why can't he be appreciated for his UNIQUE skill set?

To add to what blkexec sez, Shumpert has a basketball comprehension, and court presence, than is desperately needed to manage the other four running buddies.

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loweyecue
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1/7/2012  5:18 PM
blkexec wrote:
nixluva wrote:
loweyecue wrote:Well he has a long way to go before he can be considered a reliable staring PG. he has definitely shown some passing skills but so far he seems to be a two guard who can also create off the dribble.

IMO from everything I saw of this kid since before the draft, he's got just enough PG skills to be useful at the position. People forget that D. Rose isn't a pure PG either. He's gotten better at it tho. These guys are kind of like Steph in that they're mostly scorers, but they CAN make the pass and have a sense of what to do at the PG spot. I've compared Shump to D. Wade who is a guard that is in between a SG and PG. A lot of pure SG's just don't have any PG skills, but that's not the case with Shump.

Since Iman has been handling the ball most of his career he's comfortable doing it, but he's never going to be a Chris Paul type.

Be careful when you say he's never going to be something...You might have to bite your own words.

I will say that he's better than any of our current PG's....and on the same level, if not better than some of our past PG's. So why can't he be our PG.

Regardless of what anybody wants to name him or place him, he's our best perimeter defender, so he needs to play major minutes. He must be on the floor, just from a defensive perspective. What he provides on offense is just an added bonus.

If a defensive culture has to change around here....then we have to start looking and analyzing things from a DEFENSIVE MINDSET....Then you will see where everybody fits. For example, playing Bibby and Douglas at the sametime is suicide.

I would be happy to see this kid get minutes and become a starter on this team. I agree that we absolutely need his intensity on defense.I even compared him with Rose on another thread (or may be this one- heck I don't know any more). He has the skills, the physical tools and the enrgy and even the motivation. In his case the two key secret ingredients are going to be coaching and willingness to learn. HE already showed he doesn't completely lose his mind trying to shoot the ball, but I will be watching closely to see how he develops that trait and translates that to a healthy average in assists. Honestly I don't care if he deosn't pan out to be Rose or a great PG, I am happy to take a great basketball player. He does need to play in control and make his team mates better.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
nixluva
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1/7/2012  10:13 PM
blkexec wrote:
nixluva wrote:
loweyecue wrote:Well he has a long way to go before he can be considered a reliable staring PG. he has definitely shown some passing skills but so far he seems to be a two guard who can also create off the dribble.

IMO from everything I saw of this kid since before the draft, he's got just enough PG skills to be useful at the position. People forget that D. Rose isn't a pure PG either. He's gotten better at it tho. These guys are kind of like Steph in that they're mostly scorers, but they CAN make the pass and have a sense of what to do at the PG spot. I've compared Shump to D. Wade who is a guard that is in between a SG and PG. A lot of pure SG's just don't have any PG skills, but that's not the case with Shump.

Since Iman has been handling the ball most of his career he's comfortable doing it, but he's never going to be a Chris Paul type.

Be careful when you say he's never going to be something...You might have to bite your own words.

I will say that he's better than any of our current PG's....and on the same level, if not better than some of our past PG's. So why can't he be our PG.

Regardless of what anybody wants to name him or place him, he's our best perimeter defender, so he needs to play major minutes. He must be on the floor, just from a defensive perspective. What he provides on offense is just an added bonus.

If a defensive culture has to change around here....then we have to start looking and analyzing things from a DEFENSIVE MINDSET....Then you will see where everybody fits. For example, playing Bibby and Douglas at the sametime is suicide.

Hey you don't have to sell me on Shump playing PG, it was Uptown and ME that were the 1st ones talking this kid up before the draft!!! I was defending his ability to play the point before the season. I was just saying that he's not a pure going, but more like a PG that can score and finish strong at the rim, more like Rose and Westbrook.

Panos
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1/7/2012  10:22 PM
misterearl wrote:
blkexec wrote:
nixluva wrote:Shump did actually play some PG in the last game. I don't think it's necessary to make him play as a dedicated PG. He's more of D Wade type of guard. He can create but is mostly a scorer. You just let him be a guard and do what is needed. He seemed to handle it OK for a rook playing his 2nd game.

I vote we get rid of the word Point Guard....And just use the word Guard. PG's are becoming extinct, and that word should be shot. What we have now in the NBA are playmakers at all posiitons.

Thats like asking D.Wade to just be a PG. He would not be the super star he is now.

Shump is a guard with playmaking skills and talent that makes others better. The NBA is going away from PG's and Centers.....It will soon be all Guards and Fowards in the near future.

There are 2 positions in the NBA....guards and forwards. Some guards like to post up....Some forwards like to shoot threes......Most superstars will fill more than one position....I see Shump as the next young star in this league, guarding 3 positions.

Whats the definition of a PG? Definition from Wikipedia.....

"Most current NBA point guards are between 5'10" and 6'4" (1.93 m) or shorter in height. In 2011 the average height point guards in the NBA was just over 6'1. A true point guard's job is to create scoring opportunities for his team. The role includes passing and running the offense: setting up plays on the court, getting the ball to the teammate that he feels is in the best position to score, and dictating the tempo of the game. This also means knowing when and how to instigate a fast break and when and how to initiate the more deliberate sets." Thats Baron Davis, the only person on this team that fits this discription.

Shump has PG abilities, but I wouldn't classify him as a PG, because that would limit his ceiling. Wade is probably the best example of what he could turn into. A guard with court vision and passing abilities. John Stockton, Steve Nash, Mark Jackson, don't exist anymore. Everybody wants to be a playmaker now! Thanks to MJ......

Absolutely

Shumpert is talented, works hard and he plays with passion. Period.

My kingdom for better basketball players


How big a kingdom do you have? What are we talking about here?

blkexec
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1/8/2012  2:37 PM
nixluva wrote:
blkexec wrote:
nixluva wrote:
loweyecue wrote:Well he has a long way to go before he can be considered a reliable staring PG. he has definitely shown some passing skills but so far he seems to be a two guard who can also create off the dribble.

IMO from everything I saw of this kid since before the draft, he's got just enough PG skills to be useful at the position. People forget that D. Rose isn't a pure PG either. He's gotten better at it tho. These guys are kind of like Steph in that they're mostly scorers, but they CAN make the pass and have a sense of what to do at the PG spot. I've compared Shump to D. Wade who is a guard that is in between a SG and PG. A lot of pure SG's just don't have any PG skills, but that's not the case with Shump.

Since Iman has been handling the ball most of his career he's comfortable doing it, but he's never going to be a Chris Paul type.

Be careful when you say he's never going to be something...You might have to bite your own words.

I will say that he's better than any of our current PG's....and on the same level, if not better than some of our past PG's. So why can't he be our PG.

Regardless of what anybody wants to name him or place him, he's our best perimeter defender, so he needs to play major minutes. He must be on the floor, just from a defensive perspective. What he provides on offense is just an added bonus.

If a defensive culture has to change around here....then we have to start looking and analyzing things from a DEFENSIVE MINDSET....Then you will see where everybody fits. For example, playing Bibby and Douglas at the sametime is suicide.

Hey you don't have to sell me on Shump playing PG, it was Uptown and ME that were the 1st ones talking this kid up before the draft!!! I was defending his ability to play the point before the season. I was just saying that he's not a pure going, but more like a PG that can score and finish strong at the rim, more like Rose and Westbrook.

Good call....if you picked this guy before the knicks selection. I didnt jump on the bandwagon until after the selection. I knew he would be a nice fit that fills some holes on defense and at pg. so far, hes exceeded my expectations.

I still think not being a so called pure point might not be a negative thing. He could turnout to be a better pickup than paul, if you look at the total package. A big pg guarding multple positions is very valuable.....more than an undersized pg thats an average defender that only guards 1 position, injury prone, and wouldve capped out the knicks for years.

Interesting question.....would you take shump and his potential over chris paul right now?

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
nixluva
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1/8/2012  4:37 PM
blkexec wrote:
nixluva wrote:
blkexec wrote:
nixluva wrote:
loweyecue wrote:Well he has a long way to go before he can be considered a reliable staring PG. he has definitely shown some passing skills but so far he seems to be a two guard who can also create off the dribble.

IMO from everything I saw of this kid since before the draft, he's got just enough PG skills to be useful at the position. People forget that D. Rose isn't a pure PG either. He's gotten better at it tho. These guys are kind of like Steph in that they're mostly scorers, but they CAN make the pass and have a sense of what to do at the PG spot. I've compared Shump to D. Wade who is a guard that is in between a SG and PG. A lot of pure SG's just don't have any PG skills, but that's not the case with Shump.

Since Iman has been handling the ball most of his career he's comfortable doing it, but he's never going to be a Chris Paul type.

Be careful when you say he's never going to be something...You might have to bite your own words.

I will say that he's better than any of our current PG's....and on the same level, if not better than some of our past PG's. So why can't he be our PG.

Regardless of what anybody wants to name him or place him, he's our best perimeter defender, so he needs to play major minutes. He must be on the floor, just from a defensive perspective. What he provides on offense is just an added bonus.

If a defensive culture has to change around here....then we have to start looking and analyzing things from a DEFENSIVE MINDSET....Then you will see where everybody fits. For example, playing Bibby and Douglas at the sametime is suicide.

Hey you don't have to sell me on Shump playing PG, it was Uptown and ME that were the 1st ones talking this kid up before the draft!!! I was defending his ability to play the point before the season. I was just saying that he's not a pure going, but more like a PG that can score and finish strong at the rim, more like Rose and Westbrook.

Good call....if you picked this guy before the knicks selection. I didnt jump on the bandwagon until after the selection. I knew he would be a nice fit that fills some holes on defense and at pg. so far, hes exceeded my expectations.

I still think not being a so called pure point might not be a negative thing. He could turnout to be a better pickup than paul, if you look at the total package. A big pg guarding multple positions is very valuable.....more than an undersized pg thats an average defender that only guards 1 position, injury prone, and wouldve capped out the knicks for years.

Interesting question.....would you take shump and his potential over chris paul right now?

I always felt that Shump was going to be good as a very flexible back court player. His big strength is that he can play next to a PG and be a SG or play PG and be just as effective IMO. I never thought we'd trade Shump even if we got CP3, so I was just looking forward to seeing him play.

We haven't had a guard anything like him in terms of his combination of skills as a passer and athlete. Years ago D'Antoni tried to get a guy like him when he took M. Banks, but it didn't workout. This time when he saw Shump I think he saw the guy he was trying to get.

People here scoffed when I kept saying that MDA and Walsh felt Iman could run the point but it's a bit clearer now that he has ability.

Walsh on Shump:

“I think with our team offensively, he probably will play more point than he will two guard, because Chauncey can play ‘two’ probably as good as anybody,” Walsh said. “I think he can run pick-and-roll, I think he’ll see the play, and he’ll get better at it.”

Walsh said that Shumpert is also a better shooter than his reputation suggests and shot well during his workout for the team

“His shot’s not broken,” Walsh said, adding, “He has good form.”

Why are we not considering Shumpert at PG?

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