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Moving without the ball
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eViL
Posts: 25412
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 1/21/2004
Member: #561
USA
12/31/2011  5:07 PM
martin wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
martin wrote:
eViL wrote:is there something about the New York spotlight that makes players not want to move the ball? feels like forever since we've seen a free flowing, pass the ball offense. seems other teams, even with multiple stars, have no issues sharing. what gives?

guard play. That's where it starts. And then the pieces around that have to understand where to be.

We have Amare Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony, and you think it starts with guard play? With all due respect Martin, how many more excuses will we have?

Happy new year to you btw.

Well, do you think we have adequate PG and SG capabilities with TD and Fields? Or do you think that the effectiveness of Melo and Amare have been partially due to TD's awful PG play?

Why do people keep asking about how many excuses will we have instead of watching what is happening on the court and trying to draw some conclusions?

Whenever I see the "how many excuses" line come out I tend to view that as a short-sighted way of pouting about not getting instant-win gratification.

you'd think having a sick frontcourt like ours would make a PG's job easier. but somehow our team is not greater than the sum of its parts. i always thought a guy like Rondo would have been terrible on a bad team but benefited from the presence of superlative teammates. is Douglas really that bad? maybe he is. maybe he'd be worse on other teams and i'm just not noticing. Shumpert certainly looked pretty comfortable playing with these guys. i don't know what to say, but i'm being patient. to me, the blame goes to Amare, Melo and, to a lesser degree, coach.

check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
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eViL
Posts: 25412
Alba Posts: 9
Joined: 1/21/2004
Member: #561
USA
12/31/2011  5:10 PM
JCrusher wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
martin wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
martin wrote:
eViL wrote:is there something about the New York spotlight that makes players not want to move the ball? feels like forever since we've seen a free flowing, pass the ball offense. seems other teams, even with multiple stars, have no issues sharing. what gives?

guard play. That's where it starts. And then the pieces around that have to understand where to be.

We have Amare Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony, and you think it starts with guard play? With all due respect Martin, how many more excuses will we have?

Happy new year to you btw.

Well, do you think we have adequate PG and SG capabilities with TD and Fields? Or do you think that the effectiveness of Melo and Amare have been partially due to TD's awful PG play?

Why do people keep asking about how many excuses will we have instead of watching what is happening on the court and trying to draw some conclusions?

Whenever I see the "how many excuses" line come out I tend to view that as a short-sighted way of pouting about not getting instant-win gratification.

No, we don't have adequate PG/SG play, but again its just an excuse. Star players find ways to win without having every single piece, and I don't see that from Stat and Melo so far. TD and Fields have nothing to do with this. They are young players on a star studded roster. All they can do is follow the culture and ideologies they get from our lead guys.

I've been patient for 20 years. I think its time my team does things the right way.

good point. Look at miami sure they had three stars but they had scrubs to surround them as they still got to the finals. As much as i despise lebron because he is a ******* he is 10X the player melo is because of his overall game. Amare had became a shooting forward instead of a explosive PF who now has a center

yeah, and if we use Miami as an example, they were in shambles 20 games into the season last year. they had the benefit of a full camp as well. i'm patient. it's just a hard process to go through.

check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
JCrusher
Posts: 21553
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Joined: 12/3/2011
Member: #3685

12/31/2011  5:11 PM
scoshin wrote:
JCrusher wrote:
martin wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
martin wrote:
eViL wrote:is there something about the New York spotlight that makes players not want to move the ball? feels like forever since we've seen a free flowing, pass the ball offense. seems other teams, even with multiple stars, have no issues sharing. what gives?

guard play. That's where it starts. And then the pieces around that have to understand where to be.

We have Amare Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony, and you think it starts with guard play? With all due respect Martin, how many more excuses will we have?

Happy new year to you btw.

Well, do you think we have adequate PG and SG capabilities with TD and Fields? Or do you think that the effectiveness of Melo and Amare have been partially due to TD's awful PG play?

Why do people keep asking about how many excuses will we have instead of watching what is happening on the court and trying to draw some conclusions?

Whenever I see the "how many excuses" line come out I tend to view that as a short-sighted way of pouting about not getting instant-win gratification.

a good pg does help a lot but melo and amare have been making some real dumb decisions. they both are chucking three pointers instead of drving to the basketball i mean thats why chandler is there.

Melo's actually driving to the basket a lot. Not sure what you've been watching. Amar'e has been taking more 3's than he normally does, but those have usually been in the flow of the offense, ie. in a Shawne Williams role where Amar'e is camped out at 3 and Tyson is the roll man.

The problem really is that we have zero dribble penetration from our guards, and no one capable of running the PnR. Because of that, we can't force the defense to collapse on dribble penetration, and we usually just end up doing nothing but passing the rock for 15 seconds, then giving the ball to Amar'e or Melo for an iso to bail us out. It's the ugliest offense I've seen since MDA's been here, and I've never been a fan of his from the getgo. Other systems usually make do without a PnR guard by running the triangle, or running post-up plays, or offensive sets that involve off-the-ball screens and curl plays to free up a sharpshooter like Rip Hamilton or Reggie Miller, etc. We're not doing any of those alternatives though and that part falls on the coach.

Also, whether it's cause Amar'e lifted weights over the lockout and gained more muscle, or he practiced too many 3's for D'Antoni's offense, he really needs to get his midrange elbow jumper again. Without that, his game is going to be broke. He was never a good driver to begin with and I cringe any time he puts the ball on the floor in iso situations.

Look man im not gonna live in a fantasy world lol. I said that we have no pg and that does make a difference however our two stars should be doing more on both sides and they are not. I mean im as big a fan as you are and i root for these guys but its ok to be critical if they aren't doing great. it doesn't make you a bad fan lol
Uptown
Posts: 31323
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 4/1/2008
Member: #1883

12/31/2011  6:00 PM
JCrusher wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
martin wrote:
eViL wrote:is there something about the New York spotlight that makes players not want to move the ball? feels like forever since we've seen a free flowing, pass the ball offense. seems other teams, even with multiple stars, have no issues sharing. what gives?

guard play. That's where it starts. And then the pieces around that have to understand where to be.

We have Amare Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony, and you think it starts with guard play? With all due respect Martin, how many more excuses will we have?

Happy new year to you btw.

i agree man. I'm a die hard knicks fans but i think a lot of our fans are never critical of melo or amare. melo seems to have "a get out of jail free card" with a lot of our fans lol


You must be new to this site. More than 3/4's of the borad was against the trade for Melo and killed him after every game since he arrived. He was called Diva, Melodrama etc. Not sure where you are getting your misinformation from...

JCrusher
Posts: 21553
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/3/2011
Member: #3685

12/31/2011  6:02 PM
Uptown wrote:
JCrusher wrote:
JrZyHuStLa wrote:
martin wrote:
eViL wrote:is there something about the New York spotlight that makes players not want to move the ball? feels like forever since we've seen a free flowing, pass the ball offense. seems other teams, even with multiple stars, have no issues sharing. what gives?

guard play. That's where it starts. And then the pieces around that have to understand where to be.

We have Amare Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony, and you think it starts with guard play? With all due respect Martin, how many more excuses will we have?

Happy new year to you btw.

i agree man. I'm a die hard knicks fans but i think a lot of our fans are never critical of melo or amare. melo seems to have "a get out of jail free card" with a lot of our fans lol


You must be new to this site. More than 3/4's of the borad was against the trade for Melo and killed him after every game since he arrived. He was called Diva, Melodrama etc. Not sure where you are getting your misinformation from...

Well i dont mean everybody. But thanks for the post and its good to know you have good manners lol
KNICKSdom
Posts: 20799
Alba Posts: 8
Joined: 1/17/2004
Member: #545
USA
12/31/2011  6:42 PM
MSG3 wrote:Been watching a lot of league pass. Every other team looks like they are playing a completely different game out there. Constant movement, screens, cuts, etc. NONE of that is happening with our O. To me this is the single biggest problem so far. Even if you have Iso players or run some Iso sets, ther has to be constant movement. Douglas doesn't make life easier due to his lack of PG skills, but if no one is in motion there's only so much anyone can do.

And one.

Knicks are happening and have a Unicorn.
MSG3
Posts: 22788
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 2/2/2009
Member: #2476
USA
1/1/2012  1:23 AM
KNICKSdom wrote:
MSG3 wrote:Been watching a lot of league pass. Every other team looks like they are playing a completely different game out there. Constant movement, screens, cuts, etc. NONE of that is happening with our O. To me this is the single biggest problem so far. Even if you have Iso players or run some Iso sets, ther has to be constant movement. Douglas doesn't make life easier due to his lack of PG skills, but if no one is in motion there's only so much anyone can do.

And one.

Tonight looked better. Maybe they're buying in or mor energetic. We beat the f***'out of them.

Moving without the ball

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