Bonn1997 wrote:

Panos wrote:

spreeeewell wrote:The problem here is that we have posters wainting for this current team to fail so they can complain. But when we are winning they have nothing good to say. I call that HATING.

Yeah, that's the problem. HATING is causing this team to stink.

LOL! The problem really is the many fans who are desperate to believe things will get better and will financially support the team every time Dolan starphucks.

Serious question: was the Chandler signing an example of "starphucking?" What if we signed LeBron instead of Amare? Good starphucking versus bad starphucking?

All that being said, we can still win with the team we have. Unfortunately there are more ifs and hopes with this make up. With the Paul/Amare pairing we would know exactly what we were getting and know we had a coach that could make that type of pairing gel(we saw it with Lee/Duhon and Felton/Amare). Now we have two elite ball stopping scorers working for a coach whose offense is designed around ball movement. We need our coach to figure it out and adapt or the players. It can be done, and after 3 games to be panicking it's ridiculous. But we could also find ourselves 60 games in to this season and finally realize that one of these two stars needs to be traded. I think Baron's leadership(haven't seen enough of him to know if he is a top level leader, his career does not suggest it) will determine our fate in the short run. A strong PG can turn an offense around overnight.

Bippity10 wrote:I'm a Carmelo fan but not sure he was the best fit for this team. I think the young guys were going to get traded for a star eventually I just would have picked someone else. With the success that D'Antoni had with Amare and Nash why would you not try to emulate that here in NY by holding out for Williams or Paul instead of trading for Carmelo and having a pairing(two ball stoppers) that does not fit the D'Antoni system. I think Dolan saw Anthony going to the Nets and he panicked and forced the trade. Patience would have been a virtue in my mind. But in NY with everyone calling for firings after every loss there can never be patience.

All that being said, we can still win with the team we have. Unfortunately there are more ifs and hopes with this make up. With the Paul/Amare pairing we would know exactly what we were getting and no we had a coach that could make that type of pairing gel(we saw it with Lee/Duhon and Felton/Amare). Now we have two elite ball stopping scorers working for a coach whose offense is designed around ball movement. We need our coach to figure it out and adapt or the players. It can be done, and after 3 games to be panicking it's ridiculous. But we could also find ourselves 60 games in to this season and finally realize that one of these two stars needs to be traded. I think Baron's leadership(haven't seen enough of him to know if he is a top level leader, his career does not suggest it) will determine our fate in the short run. A strong PG can turn an offense around overnight.

Your last line says it all. A pure pg takes the ball out of Melos hands and puts him back on the wing instead of bringing the ball up trying to intiate offense. A pure pg makes Chandler a factor on offense by getting into the lane collapsing the D and dishing to Chandler either rolling in from the baseline of rolling down the lane off pick and roll.

Imagine running pick and roll on the right side with Chanlder and Baron, with Melo waiting on the right wing. The D would have to pick thier poison. If Chanlders defender shows on the pick and roll, Chanlder is open rolling to the hoop, if he doesn't Baron is open barreling into the lane and if Melo's man slides over to help, Melo is open on wing whihc is his spot anyway. We could switch it up and run pick and roll with Amare aswell.

Basically we need a pg who can play downhill, get into the lane and push the ball in transition some.

Uptown wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:I'm a Carmelo fan but not sure he was the best fit for this team. I think the young guys were going to get traded for a star eventually I just would have picked someone else. With the success that D'Antoni had with Amare and Nash why would you not try to emulate that here in NY by holding out for Williams or Paul instead of trading for Carmelo and having a pairing(two ball stoppers) that does not fit the D'Antoni system. I think Dolan saw Anthony going to the Nets and he panicked and forced the trade. Patience would have been a virtue in my mind. But in NY with everyone calling for firings after every loss there can never be patience.

All that being said, we can still win with the team we have. Unfortunately there are more ifs and hopes with this make up. With the Paul/Amare pairing we would know exactly what we were getting and no we had a coach that could make that type of pairing gel(we saw it with Lee/Duhon and Felton/Amare). Now we have two elite ball stopping scorers working for a coach whose offense is designed around ball movement. We need our coach to figure it out and adapt or the players. It can be done, and after 3 games to be panicking it's ridiculous. But we could also find ourselves 60 games in to this season and finally realize that one of these two stars needs to be traded. I think Baron's leadership(haven't seen enough of him to know if he is a top level leader, his career does not suggest it) will determine our fate in the short run. A strong PG can turn an offense around overnight.

Your last line says it all. A pure pg takes the ball out of Melos hands and puts him back on the wing instead of bringing the ball up trying to intiate offense. A pure pg makes Chandler a factor on offense by getting into the lane collapsing the D and dishing to Chandler either rolling in from the baseline of rolling down the lane off pick and roll.

Imagine running pick and roll on the right side with Chanlder and Baron, with Melo waiting on the right wing. The D would have to pick thier poison. If Chanlders defender shows on the pick and roll, Chanlder is open rolling to the hoop, if he doesn't Baron is open barreling into the lane and if Melo's man slides over to help, Melo is open on wing whihc is his spot anyway. We could switch it up and run pick and roll with Amare aswell.

Basically we need a pg who can play downhill, get into the lane and push the ball in transition some.

agreed. One of our struggles in teh past was that because of our roster flaws we always had multiple important players playing roles that did not suit them. Nate tryin to be a lead guard/star when he was a sixth man. David Lee playing center. Duhon starting. TD running point etc. As soon as we fixed it(with the team before the trade) we started to see the team gel. The team gelled becasue everyone had a role that they were comfortable with. Now because of injuries and the trade we are back to having guys playing roles that are not a fit. Carmelo can run the offense in spurts but doing it regularly is a recipe for disaster. TD can run the point for stretches but doing it regularly is not a fit. Having Bibby as the first guard off the bench does not work.Having Walker as your offensive focal point off the bench does not work. It's a cascade effect. Too many guys not suited for their roles and teams are capitalizing on it just like you said.

You bring in a strong PG(hopefully Baron) and guys come back from injuries and things change drastically. You have a PG that can run the pick and role which gets chandler/Amare involved. with teams focusing on the pick and role you open up the floor for Melo away from the ball. Amare's jumpshooting also becomes more lethal as you can now run legitimate pick and pops. You move TD as the first guard combo off the bench. He can run the point, make mistakes, jack up shots adn when he's hot he helps you. When he's playing poorly you don't have to rely on Bibby to do these things, now you can bring back in Baron or utilize Shumperts aggressiveness and similar skillset. With Shumpert's aggressiveness on penetration teams will need to scramble when he beats his man off the dribble(Baron too). This opens the floor for shooters like Walker and Bibby and Novak. Now Bibby's lack of offense becomes less apparent because you have Baron, Shumpert and TD that can provide that fourth scorer instead of what we have now. Walker becomes a supplement as well. With Shump and TD and one of the starters working with the second unit you no longer have to rely on Walker's scoring. On thse off nights you just sit him. when he's on, he's another weapon. I haven't even discussed what a true PG can do to the spacing like you have. It's all very important to this type of offense. That PG can change everything.

Gymkata wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Panos wrote:

spreeeewell wrote:The problem here is that we have posters wainting for this current team to fail so they can complain. But when we are winning they have nothing good to say. I call that HATING.

Yeah, that's the problem. HATING is causing this team to stink.

LOL! The problem really is the many fans who are desperate to believe things will get better and will financially support the team every time Dolan starphucks.

Serious question: was the Chandler signing an example of "starphucking?" What if we signed LeBron instead of Amare? Good starphucking versus bad starphucking?

NYKBocker wrote:Billups was right, we are going to be in trouble because of PG play. He did not say it outright but he implied it because he liked TD. Until we get a PG that can push the tempo and setup players with dribble drive then all is lost for this year.

It's not a coincidence that Amare and Carmelo are relying on one on one moves exclusively or settling for jumpers. They currently are not getting any open shots. How often have we seen a guy cut to the hoop for a zip pass for any easy basket. The Lakers did it 40 times last night. I can't remember more then 2 or 3 for us this entire year. How many times have we even had penetration in to the lane, let alone penetration and a pass for a layup. Jeremy Lin did it to Jordan and it was so out of place it sticks out in my mind. TD and Bibby do none of this

Bippity10 wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Billups was right, we are going to be in trouble because of PG play. He did not say it outright but he implied it because he liked TD. Until we get a PG that can push the tempo and setup players with dribble drive then all is lost for this year.

It's not a coincidence that Amare and Carmelo are relying on one on one moves exclusively or settling for jumpers. They currently are not getting any open shots. How often have we seen a guy cut to the hoop for a zip pass for any easy basket. The Lakers did it 40 times last night. I can't remember more then 2 or 3 for us this entire year. How many times have we even had penetration in to the lane, let alone penetration and a pass for a layup. Jeremy Lin did it to Jordan and it was so out of place it sticks out in my mind. TD and Bibby do none of this

Its funny because the lane should be open for penetration. One of MDA's offensive theory's is to surround the perimeter and open up the paint. He might need to tweak his theory some and get Amare's head under the basket because TD wont go near the paint as if its still wet and Bibby just cant get in their at this point of his career.

Uptown wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Billups was right, we are going to be in trouble because of PG play. He did not say it outright but he implied it because he liked TD. Until we get a PG that can push the tempo and setup players with dribble drive then all is lost for this year.

It's not a coincidence that Amare and Carmelo are relying on one on one moves exclusively or settling for jumpers. They currently are not getting any open shots. How often have we seen a guy cut to the hoop for a zip pass for any easy basket. The Lakers did it 40 times last night. I can't remember more then 2 or 3 for us this entire year. How many times have we even had penetration in to the lane, let alone penetration and a pass for a layup. Jeremy Lin did it to Jordan and it was so out of place it sticks out in my mind. TD and Bibby do none of this

Its funny because the lane should be open for penetration. One of MDA's offensive theory's is to surround the perimeter and open up the paint. He might need to tweak his theory some and get Amare's head under the basket because TD wont go near the paint as if its still wet and Bibby just cant get in their at this point of his career.

Agreed

Bonn1997 wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:I guess you can look at it this way. Carmelo is one of the top pure scorers in the league. Despite this, out of necessity, we are forced to have him run the point. What did we think was going to happen to our offense?

Did you read the forum a week ago?

Running more plays thru Melo was the practical thing to do with no PG on the active roster. You want to pass final judgment on it after 3 games? It's still a smart thing to do in order to expand Melo's game and get him to learn to involve his teammates. It's not an easy thing to change years of playing one way in just a couple of weeks. Besides that's not really the part of the game that hasn't been working.

People kept asking MDA to adjust to his roster and not stick to SSOL and then when he does make changes people still talk crap. If TD wasn't an abject failure at improving even just a little at PG, this would've been a much better outcome. TD's playing worse than he ever has on all fronts. Worse shooting, defense and PG play.