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Knicks PG Situation
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Bonn1997
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12/22/2011  8:48 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/22/2011  8:48 PM
EnySpree wrote:Stop calling Shump a point guard....he's not a point guard. Enough already with that. He's a damn good shooting guard. Practice and experience is all he needs.kid is a natural scorer...a natural defender....he can handle and has good vision....he is not Rondo. Cut it out

He's not a good shooting guard but he does have the potential to be one IMO.
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nixluva
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12/22/2011  8:59 PM
EnySpree wrote:Stop calling Shump a point guard....he's not a point guard. Enough already with that. He's a damn good shooting guard. Practice and experience is all he needs.kid is a natural scorer...a natural defender....he can handle and has good vision....he is not Rondo. Cut it out

Iman is more of a PG than TD and the proper term is COMBO guard. TD in his college career never avg'd 4 or 5 assists like Iman did in his college career. He doesn't have to be limited to just being a PG or a SG. He's clearly more of a scorer but that doesn't preclude him from creating either. Both MDA and Walsh feel the kid could run the point, but it's so early why even worry about it? The original plan was to play CB at the 2 and let Iman play the point. It's not like he NEVER played the point before and we're asking him to do something he can't do. He's a combo guard and let's leave it at that.

gunsnewing
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12/22/2011  9:04 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Stop calling Shump a point guard....he's not a point guard. Enough already with that. He's a damn good shooting guard. Practice and experience is all he needs.kid is a natural scorer...a natural defender....he can handle and has good vision....he is not Rondo. Cut it out

He's not a good shooting guard but he does have the potential to be one IMO.

He also has potential to be a good SG. Jump shot is much further along than Fields imo

rvwink
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12/22/2011  9:15 PM
EnySpree wrote:Stop calling Shump a point guard....he's not a point guard. Enough already with that. He's a damn good shooting guard. Practice and experience is all he needs.kid is a natural scorer...a natural defender....he can handle and has good vision....he is not Rondo. Cut it out

You don't have either the authority or the knowledge to tell me what to write and what not to write? State your own opinions, but don't come on like you are the Knick's Police.

Shump thinks he can be a point guard, and others like Donnie Walsh and MDA agree. Baron Davis is not someone that the Knicks can depend on. We need a quality point guard backup, and I like Shump for the job. Its important to know who you can push around and who you can't.

crzymdups
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12/22/2011  9:28 PM
rvwink wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Stop calling Shump a point guard....he's not a point guard. Enough already with that. He's a damn good shooting guard. Practice and experience is all he needs.kid is a natural scorer...a natural defender....he can handle and has good vision....he is not Rondo. Cut it out

You don't have either the authority or the knowledge to tell me what to write and what not to write? State your own opinions, but don't come on like you are the Knick's Police.

Shump thinks he can be a point guard, and others like Donnie Walsh and MDA agree. Baron Davis is not someone that the Knicks can depend on. We need a quality point guard backup, and I like Shump for the job. Its important to know who you can push around and who you can't.

but shumpert didn't run the point in the pre-season. so i don't think MDA does think he can be a PG. i remember walsh said about that, but i don't think it's the reality of what shumpert's game is. i just don't think he's a PG. he CAN be an excellent SG.

¿ △ ?
rvwink
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12/22/2011  9:47 PM
The fact that MDA didn't give Shump point guard playing time in the ridiculously short preseason, is not proof that MDA didn't think the Iman could do it. Toney Douglas got the first time, because he was promised a shot at the job. Then Henry Bibby also needed minutes so Mike could see what his current talents were. If Toney continues to appear like he isn't starting point guard material, then Iman may begin getting minutes running the point imo.
RonRon
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12/22/2011  9:55 PM
I think its really confusing to go from a backup 6th 7th man @ SG then go to a starting PG, back n forth.
It's 2 different mentality of playing, at the backup 6th/7th man is to score vs the 2nd units defense and bring in energy.
As a starting PG, its his job to facilitate and orchestrate our offense and system, find the person that is hot or open, attack the basket, draw pick n rolls to cause mismatches, apply pressure on defensive end, hit a wide open shot when open and apply pressure on defensive end.
rvwink
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12/22/2011  10:16 PM
With Melo playing point forward, the complexity and technical difficulty of being a Knicks point guard, is reduced. Also D'Antoni tends to minimize the differences between point guard and shooting guard. He has told players that he had guards, and forwards. He likes players capable of multiple roles on the team. I am not suggesting that Shump should be going to starting PG. All I want is for him to get some minutes as point guard during games, so he can begin accumulating experience at the position in the NBA. Baron Davis is most definitely not a permanent solution to the Knicks point guard dilemma.
EnySpree
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12/22/2011  10:21 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/22/2011  10:30 PM
rvwink wrote:
EnySpree wrote:Stop calling Shump a point guard....he's not a point guard. Enough already with that. He's a damn good shooting guard.
Practice and experience is all he needs.kid is a natural scorer...a natural defender....he can handle and has good vision....he is not Rondo. Cut it out

You don't have either the authority or the knowledge to tell me what to write and what not to write? State your own opinions, but don't come on like you are the Knick's Police.

Shump thinks he can be a point guard, and others like Donnie Walsh and MDA agree. Baron Davis is not someone that the Knicks can depend on. We need a quality point guard backup, and I like Shump for the job. Its important to know who you can push around and who you can't.

Knicks police? I stated my opinion. Iman is not a point guard. My opinion is you should stop saying it. Am I missing something?

Bibby is done physically but he is a real point guard. Shumpert doesn't posses the natural play making ability that Bibby has. Nothing wrong with that. He's definately a shooting guard.

He's got Vince Carter, ray Allen, Jamal Crawford, Joe Johnson type skill....all those guys can run the point cuz they are that good. Should they? No....Shump is that good I think but I don't think he should be the point.

Landry is a small fwd.Td is also not a point guard. Neither should be starting on a winning club as the starting back court.

This is my opinion. The authority is given to me by God himself. Got a problem get in line

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GoNyGoNyGo
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12/22/2011  10:57 PM
I think, at the end of the day, you will see Davis, Shump, Melo, Stat, TC as your starting and finishing 5.

With Bibby, TD, Fields, Jefferies, Jorts playing as needed.

NY can still be active come trading deadline, as they now have the pieces they need.

Fields is more of a 3 and should be used as such. TD is solid and he and Shumpert will solidify the 2 spot.

rvwink
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12/23/2011  2:45 PM
EnySpree wrote:
"This is my opinion. The authority is given to me by God himself. Got a problem get in line."

Because this forum gives me instant access, I don't have to get in line to state my opinion as you suggested. If you had written something like, I don't think Shumpert has the ability to be a quality point guard, everything would be fine. But instead, you issued a command instead of an opinion, i.e. "Stop saying that Shumpert should play point guard". Can you see the difference?

Neither of us presently have enough performance data to accurately figure out whether Shump will or won't be able to play point guard in the NBA. (With Melo playing point forward, it is a less difficult assignment.) Even though my opinion was supported by Donnie Walsh, and by Shumpert himself, we both still have to wait because the "proof will be in the pudding", and Shumpert hasn't had a chance to show what he looks like at point guard. One thing we do know. When Shumpert stole the ball from Deron Williams the other night, he confirmed that he does have the superior quickness it takes to get into the lane.

Lets start fresh, and forget about this minor disagreement. What do you say?

nixluva
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12/23/2011  6:20 PM
Just a bit of news that could be a sign of what MDA really thinks of Iman's potential as a PG/SG:

There was a good chunk of time during Friday's practice when Iman Shumpert was wearing a blue jersey. That meant he was the point guard in the first unit, playing alongside Landry Fields, Carmelo Anthony, Amare Stoudemire and Tyson Chandler.

Mike D'Antoni said afterward that Toney Douglas also ran the team, and he wanted to switch it up with Shumpert because "we're just trying to get everybody used to playing with certain people." While D'Antoni is likely to name Douglas the starter for Sunday's season opener, he's been impressed with Shumpert's playmaking abilities.

D'Antoni has the luxury of using Anthony as his point-forward, but an actual point guard who can make things happen will be necessary at times when Melo is playing off the ball. Eventually, it will be Baron Davis, but in the meantime before the All-Star is healthy, don't be surprised if that player ends up being Shumpert, not Douglas.

The deciding factors will likely be Shumpert's athleticism and 6-5, 220-pound size, which will allow him to stick with stronger and quicker point guards, such as Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Derrick Rose and Russell Wesbrook. D'Antoni called Shumpert's defense "really good." Offensively, Douglas has more experience at the one, but he's undersized. At the end of the day, he's better suited for the team's sixth-man role. The name of his game is scoring, and Shumpert's, as D'Antoni alluded to it on Friday, is facilitating.

"[Iman's] shown that he makes simple plays, and if he can do that, he'll play," D'Antoni said. "Now whether right now in his rookie year can he run a team exactly the way we want it after two weeks of practice? I don't know. But if we've got other guys helping out, he can definitely play. We'll just cover that as we go forward."

By the look and sound of it, as D'Antoni said that he'll "probably" go with the usual starting five against the Celtics, Christmas Day could offer a surprising Knicks offering.

loweyecue
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12/23/2011  9:01 PM
If he can run the pick and roll, then he is already an upgrade. Just don't think he is a long term PG solution. But he is definitely worth a try till Baron is back.
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
nixluva
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12/23/2011  9:53 PM
loweyecue wrote:If he can run the pick and roll, then he is already an upgrade. Just don't think he is a long term PG solution. But he is definitely worth a try till Baron is back.

Iman thinks of himself as a PG. He has played the position for years and tho he's not a PURE passer, I think he has some ability. Look at a player like Billups. He's no real PG either. Not if you compare him to guys like CP3, Kidd, Nash, Deron... Iman could eventually develop into a better version of Billups. I'm not saying this is his future long term, but for now there's a good chance he'd be better than anyone else we've got before Baron gets back.

Remember the original plan was to have Iman run the point with CB playing SG. There's a reason why they wanted to do that and it had to do with their belief in Iman's PG skills and his ability to learn. I don't know how well Iman will adjust to slowing down enough to run the sets but we know MDA is willing to test it out. I'm intrigued by the possibilities.

93BUICK
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12/23/2011  10:18 PM
Iman,Landry,Melo Stat and Tyson is a TALL starting lineup with a lot of D in the backcourt and center - if Iman can handle it- it would make us a tough matchup
If you are still following the team and reading sites like this, there is nothing, short of your own demise, that is going to throw you off this train.
CrushAlot
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12/23/2011  10:23 PM
I think you need to take D'Antoni at his word on this. He said he wanted to get different guys used to playing together. Training camp was short and with only two preseason games the guys are still getting familiar with each other. Two things to consider, Bibby was hurt against the Nets and Douglas has a hard time against Rondo. I do agree that having Iman in the starting line up at the point creates a huge size mismatch and would be great if he could handle it.
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loweyecue
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12/23/2011  10:40 PM
I will be happy if Iman develops PG skills but then when Naron comes back do we ask him to be a SG again? That's asking too much of a rookie.
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
93BUICK
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12/23/2011  10:52 PM
When Naron comes back Iman is the flexible backup PG or SG depending on need, but probably PG w TD as backup SG
If you are still following the team and reading sites like this, there is nothing, short of your own demise, that is going to throw you off this train.
nixluva
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12/23/2011  11:35 PM
Iman is a COMBO GUARD!!! He's used to doing both things and so it's not really a stretch for him to do a little distributing and a lot of scoring. He's the prototypical Combo guard. He's got enough handle to play point and he's a capable scorer inside and out.
rvwink
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12/24/2011  12:10 AM
I suspect MDA has additional motivation for giving the Iman playing time at point guard in the scrimage. Toney Douglas seems about the same size as Rajon Rondo. He is listed at 6'2" while Rondo is listed at 6'1". But check out their wingspans, and you will find that Toney Douglas's wingspan is 6'6" while Rajon Rondo's wingspan is 6'9". Rondo's exceptionally long arms and huge hands make a huge difference. So Rajon Rondo's playing length is considerably longer than Toney Douglas's playing length is. Also we all know that Rajon Rondo played significantly better than Toney Douglas did in Celtics/Knicks playoff season last year.

Now enter Shumpert. His height is 6' 5.5", versus 6'1" for RR. His wingspan is 6'9.5" i.e. slightly longer than Rondo. His standing reach is therefore longer than Rondo's. He seems every bit as athletic as Rondo is and may be one of the very people playing point guard in the NBA who defensively will match up well with Rajon Rondo.

MDA was preparing in today's scrimage to put the Iman into the Celtics game to guard Rajon Rondo. He will likely do it either before or after Toney Douglas plays. Either way, it should be exciting to watch. It seems likely to me that having the Iman guarding Rajon Rondo, will improve the Knick's chance of winning the upcoming Celtics game. Thanks to Shump Shump's new role, I am predicting a victory for the Knicks.

Knicks PG Situation

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