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Not reaching Eastern Conference Finals this year = D'Antoni fail
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HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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12/21/2011  3:32 PM
Despite the fact that this si a newly retooled team, MDA had better make it to the ECF at the VERY least. If not, then as much as Mike Woodson would be hoping to get the gig, Zen Master Phil is surely waiting in the wings, knowintg what this team (and two star players that Phil loves to have on his teams) is capable of.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
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martin
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12/21/2011  3:38 PM
Bippity10 wrote:Put the records aside. Was there ever a year where the Suns were the absolute favorite in the playoffs and then choked when it mattered?

no. But you are describing LeBron in 4th quarters of playoffs.

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loweyecue
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12/21/2011  3:54 PM
fishmike wrote:what if we sweep the Hawks in a 4/5 first round matchup than lose to the Bulls in 7 games in the 2nd round. Fail?

Im a Giant fan also and as far as MDA goes I have the same philosophy. The only reason I want coaches gone is if a) they have lost their team or b) there is a clear upgrade. People that want Coughlin gone... thats fine, whos the replacement? Same with MDA. Looking forward to see how Mark Jackson does this year. Many here wanted him

Uh Cowher?

But I would never Mark Jackson to coach here. The other Jackson, I would take in a heartbeat.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
fishmike
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12/21/2011  4:36 PM
loweyecue wrote:
fishmike wrote:what if we sweep the Hawks in a 4/5 first round matchup than lose to the Bulls in 7 games in the 2nd round. Fail?

Im a Giant fan also and as far as MDA goes I have the same philosophy. The only reason I want coaches gone is if a) they have lost their team or b) there is a clear upgrade. People that want Coughlin gone... thats fine, whos the replacement? Same with MDA. Looking forward to see how Mark Jackson does this year. Many here wanted him

Uh Cowher?

But I would never Mark Jackson to coach here. The other Jackson, I would take in a heartbeat.

I would take Cower sure.. but word around the campfire is he's happier not coaching and sound financially.

nychamp... your dissing MDA's Suns and thats fine. Can you name one playoff series he was outcoached or the Suns were clearly the better team? Good luck

I think people here will be pretty happy. MDA is a good coach and he's got a talented skilled roster with true star power. He will get these guys playing well.

Knick fans havent seen a roster with this much talent since the late 90s

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bonn1997
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12/21/2011  4:46 PM
Knick fans havent seen a roster with this much talent since the late 90s

I do agree with that and that gives me some excitement. It's also a testament to how bad the last ten years were though.

This may shock people but I bought a Carmelo shirt yesterday. I love his talent level and want more than anyone else for him to become a more efficient offensive player and consistent defensive player.
fishmike
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12/21/2011  4:49 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
Knick fans havent seen a roster with this much talent since the late 90s

I do agree with that and that gives me some excitement. It's also a testament to how bad the last ten years were though.

This may shock people but I bought a Carmelo shirt yesterday. I love his talent level and want more than anyone else for him to become a more efficient offensive player and consistent defensive player.

OR
You can just let Chandler guard the middle, Amare the weak side, Shumpert the wing and let Melo be the best offensive player in the NBA under MDA. THATS what I'm looking for. I dont need or want Melo to be a great defensive player, at least not at the expense of any of his offense. This team's pieces fit nicely together. Not everyone has to be Michael Jordan. Dirk looked pretty good last year didnt he? What good about this roster is if the guys do what they are ALREADY good (or great) at in a team concept the Knicks are at worst a deep playoff team. At best they can compete for a title
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
FistOfOakley
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12/21/2011  5:04 PM
not reaching the ECF means that you think that they are better than the miami heat or the chicago bulls?

failing to live up to expectations is one thing... failing to live up to unreasonable expectations is another.
nychamp
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12/21/2011  5:54 PM
fishmike wrote:nychamp... your dissing MDA's Suns and thats fine. Can you name one playoff series he was outcoached or the Suns were clearly the better team? Good luck

He was severely outcoached last year vs. the Celtics.
If you meant w/ the Suns, I can't provide "proof" for you. I can only reiterate that their lack of defense (byproduct of D'Antoni's coaching philosophy) always led me to correctly believe that they were not true title contenders.

fishmike wrote:I think people here will be pretty happy. MDA is a good coach and he's got a talented skilled roster with true star power. He will get these guys playing well.

Knick fans havent seen a roster with this much talent since the late 90s

I actually tend to agree that D'Antoni should get them playing well. He really has an excellent roster for his system. I hope to see him work his magic this year. As Knicks coach he hasn't shown very much. Now he has the tools. I wish him and the team the best. GO KNICKS!!
martin
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12/21/2011  5:55 PM
nychamp wrote:
fishmike wrote:nychamp... your dissing MDA's Suns and thats fine. Can you name one playoff series he was outcoached or the Suns were clearly the better team? Good luck

He was severely outcoached last year vs. the Celtics.
If you meant w/ the Suns, I can't provide "proof" for you. I can only reiterate that their lack of defense (byproduct of D'Antoni's coaching philosophy) always led me to correctly believe that they were not true title contenders.

fishmike wrote:I think people here will be pretty happy. MDA is a good coach and he's got a talented skilled roster with true star power. He will get these guys playing well.

Knick fans havent seen a roster with this much talent since the late 90s

I actually tend to agree that D'Antoni should get them playing well. He really has an excellent roster for his system. I hope to see him work his magic this year. As Knicks coach he hasn't shown very much. Now he has the tools. I wish him and the team the best. GO KNICKS!!

WTF? no he wasn't

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FoeDiddy
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12/21/2011  6:50 PM
martin wrote:
nychamp wrote:
fishmike wrote:nychamp... your dissing MDA's Suns and thats fine. Can you name one playoff series he was outcoached or the Suns were clearly the better team? Good luck

He was severely outcoached last year vs. the Celtics.
If you meant w/ the Suns, I can't provide "proof" for you. I can only reiterate that their lack of defense (byproduct of D'Antoni's coaching philosophy) always led me to correctly believe that they were not true title contenders.

fishmike wrote:I think people here will be pretty happy. MDA is a good coach and he's got a talented skilled roster with true star power. He will get these guys playing well.

Knick fans havent seen a roster with this much talent since the late 90s

I actually tend to agree that D'Antoni should get them playing well. He really has an excellent roster for his system. I hope to see him work his magic this year. As Knicks coach he hasn't shown very much. Now he has the tools. I wish him and the team the best. GO KNICKS!!

WTF? no he wasn't

I wouldn't say he was outcoached. With that roster what was he really going to do. He was slow on reacting to seeing the team play better with AC on the court but that would have at most given us one win in that series. A Healthy Garnett, Ray Allen, Rondo vs. Melo, an Injured Amare & scrubs is a sweep with 99% of coaches.

Not sure it's fair to a top flight coach to be asked to coach a subpar roster for 3 years and then when he finally gets a decent roster say ECF or bust. If he does a formidable job in regular season and playoffs and has the team competitive I think he deserves more than a year. Especially a season with a express training camp.
nykshaknbake
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12/22/2011  12:12 AM
MDA did not put this team together. If Phil came in he would be putting in his own system and not using MDAs sloppy seconds. MDA has been with us through thin for sure. Not sure what part of his tenure has really been very thick. Professional sports is about results. Otherwise we would still have Layden or Isiah.

nyvector16 wrote:There are some fans that just flat out don't like D'antoni almost in the same fashion that people hate Isiah Thomas.
I don't agree with that.
D'antoni put his reputation on the line to come to our team of misfits to build something.
He has held on despite some really crappy teams and when he was starting to do well we traded our two best players essentially scrapping the whole season.
He has been with us through thick & thin and now that we finally have the promised land in sights people want to dump him?
Perhaps I am too old school, but there is something to having loyalty to a coach that has been nothing but in return.
He could have walked out on us a while back.

When we got him he chose us over Chicago despite the whole world wanting him there instead of here.
He chose us and we chose him... Now let's see what he really brings to the table now that we have a real team.

I for one am totally against sending D'antoni packing to just simply turn around and kiss Phil Jackson's rings and give him a championship that took a lot of patience from D'antoni to help put together.
nykshaknbake
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12/22/2011  12:16 AM
Expectations should be competitive 2nd round series 6-7 games. Anything less is failure. NO excuses about roster instability shots not falling or other crap we always fall back on. That's part of why you hire a good coach;to address chemistry and strategic issues.
Childs2Dudley
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12/22/2011  12:23 AM
What if we face the Bulls in the 2nd round?
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crzymdups
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12/22/2011  12:28 AM
Childs2Dudley wrote:What if we face the Bulls in the 2nd round?

it's pretty much guaranteed to be the Bulls or Heat in the second round. asking this team to beat either of those teams is a pretty tall order right now. maybe that changes with Baron. maybe.

i'd rather just enjoy the ride than try to predict where this team is gonna go. i get why people want to predict stuff, but with a season like this and a team like this, i say just enjoy the ride. half the fun is not knowing where it'll go.

¿ △ ?
Bonn1997
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12/22/2011  12:30 AM
nykshaknbake wrote:Expectations should be competitive 2nd round series 6-7 games. Anything less is failure. NO excuses about roster instability shots not falling or other crap we always fall back on. That's part of why you hire a good coach;to address chemistry and strategic issues.

We endured several bad seasons just to clear cap space, which we've now fully used. We are also in the weaker conference. Fans should be expecting (or demanding) that we win more than one playoff series.
RonRon
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12/22/2011  12:37 AM
i dont want to jinx it but what if we have another injury during or b4 the playoffs?
would that still be the end or another excuse for him?
FistOfOakley
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12/22/2011  12:38 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:Expectations should be competitive 2nd round series 6-7 games. Anything less is failure. NO excuses about roster instability shots not falling or other crap we always fall back on. That's part of why you hire a good coach;to address chemistry and strategic issues.

We endured several bad seasons just to clear cap space, which we've now fully used. We are also in the weaker conference. Fans should be expecting (or demanding) that we win more than one playoff series.

only 4 teams get to the conference finals and at the moment we're outside the top 4 teams in the NBA which i think is pretty clear.

we cleared cap space and got pieces together for a window of contention. that's really all you can ask for. ECF with this particular group would be a major success but viewing it as a failure if we don't make it is unfair imo. if we get swept in the first round that would be a different story but 2nd rd seems like a reasonable expectation.
RonRon
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12/22/2011  12:54 AM
I just want to establish an identity and system on the offensive end, defensive end, and have a 2nd unit that is capable of changing the pace.
Whether that may be scoring or slowing it down for defending, it may change, depending on who we play.
Maximizing the production of our players and taking good shots on a consistent basis is what I ask for.
Where we go, how far we go, and if we win, all are less relevant to me.

There are too many deciding factors and variables that can change our predictions to judge at this point.
OasisBU
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12/22/2011  8:07 AM
It is always disappointing to read the D'Antoni hate on this board. Prior to him coming here we had no star players - the best player we had was Stephon Marbury, a guy who had been dumped by every single team he had played on.

When Mike took the gig it signalled a the beginning of a turnaround for the franchise. Sure Donnie had a huge role in that as well, but Mike had imput in the drafts and recruiting. Do you think players like Melo and Amare come here if we don't have a coach like MDA? I don't think so.

The real turn around came when Amare signed, and I guarantee you MDA had an impact on that. They supposedly had some rough moments in PHX so he must have spoken with Amare and cleared the air. That move paved the way for Melo and ultimately to the roster we have today.

Can you give all the credit to MDA? No, but he definitely helped bring in some of the talent we have, even Melo has said how he wanted to play for him after working with MDA during the olympics.

During his time here the team has improved every season, has had several total roster overhauls, and even made the playoffs. These things take time and the team has made strides every season. I think the ECF is a bit much to put on this team. Are they capable? Sure. But I think getting to the playoffs and out of the first round is enough to prove MDA deserves an extension.

He deserves a lot more credit than he gets.

"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
fishmike
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12/22/2011  8:16 AM
OasisBU wrote:It is always disappointing to read the D'Antoni hate on this board. Prior to him coming here we had no star players - the best player we had was Stephon Marbury, a guy who had been dumped by every single team he had played on.

When Mike took the gig it signalled a the beginning of a turnaround for the franchise. Sure Donnie had a huge role in that as well, but Mike had imput in the drafts and recruiting. Do you think players like Melo and Amare come here if we don't have a coach like MDA? I don't think so.

The real turn around came when Amare signed, and I guarantee you MDA had an impact on that. They supposedly had some rough moments in PHX so he must have spoken with Amare and cleared the air. That move paved the way for Melo and ultimately to the roster we have today.

Can you give all the credit to MDA? No, but he definitely helped bring in some of the talent we have, even Melo has said how he wanted to play for him after working with MDA during the olympics.

During his time here the team has improved every season, has had several total roster overhauls, and even made the playoffs. These things take time and the team has made strides every season. I think the ECF is a bit much to put on this team. Are they capable? Sure. But I think getting to the playoffs and out of the first round is enough to prove MDA deserves an extension.

He deserves a lot more credit than he gets.

its funny... everyone says he doesnt care about defense, but Tyson Chandler called MDA and his experience with him on the Olympic team a big factor in him coming here. Baron Davis said MDA and his offense was a big factor in him coming here. Part of my desire to see him succeed stems simply from seeing so many people who want him to fail. He's a good coach and a breath of fresh air when you look at what we had to watch the last decade
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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