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Grunwald Vs Walsh Vs Dolan


Author Poll
CHAOS
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Walsh = he got under the cap
Dolan = he got us Melo
Grun = he got us Tyson

Who did the better job and the most impact on the team

Walsh
Dolan
Grunwald
View Results


Author Thread
DurzoBlint
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12/13/2011  3:09 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/13/2011  3:10 PM
MarburyAnd1Crossover wrote:
Childs2Dudley wrote:
DurzoBlint wrote:then don't. Be an adult and agree to disagree.

I bet you were happy as hell when we first got Isiah and when he brought in Steph.

Hey look, you're acting like an adult. I should learn from you by making presumptions about someone to bolster a weak argument.

I guess I'll do the same.

I bet you loved most, if not all, of Isiah's trades.

Oh wait, you did.

And this is the type of exchange which initially drew me into this community and nudged me towards making the leap to contributing membership.

Stay classy.

no I did not ^ but, if it pleases you to fabricate things go ahead. Instead of providing an argument for your opinion, you make a blanket statement with nothing to back it up. I gave a concise reasoning for my feeling.

Also, I don't remember insulting you either! Asking you to agree to disagree (as adults do) is no insult (as far as I'm aware of). Hows about respecting other peoples opinions because even though I disagree, I have respect for yours.

the fact that you can't even have an unrelated thread without some tool here bringing him up make me think that rational minds are few and far between. Bunch of emotionally weak, angst riddled people. I mean, how many times can you argue the same shyt
AUTOADVERT
fishmike
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12/13/2011  3:53 PM
scoshin wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:If you give credit to one guy, it's definitely Donnie. The house is sitting on his foundation

I'll give him credit for having a plan, executing it

dude, that alone IS spectacular. Who was the last Knick GM who was able to say the same? Probably the closest was when Grunfield (was it even him) brought in Camby and Sprewell to get us younger and more athletic.

Walsh loaded the roster up with low cost desirable players. If Dolan traded for Melo it was Walsh who drafted Gallo, signed Moz, Felton, etc.

Walsh did what everyone thought would be impossible here, and in two years he got us under the cap and kept the roster flexible. What do we have to show for it? Amare, Melo and Tyson Chandler. Pretty solid.

I'm VERY happy with all 3 right now to be honest. Grunwald did a great job recognizing the need for Chandler and making it happen. I hope he gets a chance to stick. He's done a good job so far imo.

Dolan is dolt, but he spends and Im happy we have that. His problem has always been his loyalty to crappy execs like his great fiend Isiah Thomas.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
SupremeCommander
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12/13/2011  4:07 PM
DurzoBlint wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:If you give credit to one guy, it's definitely Donnie. The house is sitting on his foundation

Who hired Donnie? Cause and Effect my friend. Dolan is a great owner and possibly loyal to a fault. The reason we were relevant during the 80's & 90's is that the Dolans' have no problem spending to improve the product.

IT turned out to be awful but, it was the result of Dolan listening to someone he had good reason to believe knew what he was taling about...Magic Johnson. When Mag turned down Dolans offer to run the Knicks he sold Dolan on the idea of hiring Isiah. It Turned out bad but who among us thought at the time that it was a bad decisions. He stayed with IT too long but that is because he is so loyal. That loyalty has hamstrung us a few time unfortunately. Isiah and the Houston signing which turned out to be an albatross.

Donnie was also suggested to him but, this time the suggestion turned out to be a good one so, Dolan gets the credit. If he gets the credit for the bad he should get the credit for the good too.

I'm pretty sure whatever you just said was in an episode of The Twilight Zone

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
subzero0
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12/13/2011  5:37 PM
Grunwald also got us to the '99 finals.
VCoug
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12/13/2011  6:42 PM
DurzoBlint wrote:
Childs2Dudley wrote:
DurzoBlint wrote:
Childs2Dudley wrote:Shouldn't even be a question.

Walsh rebuilt this team. Without him, all of this is not possible.

Those giving to credit to Dolan for Walsh must remember that Dolan kept Isiah around solely because of his friendship with him. He did not care about the well-being of the Knicks. He cared about his friendship with Isiah, which I am going to assume was entirely one-sided. Dolan destroyed the franchise by keep Isiah Thomas around 2 years longer than what he should have. Thankfully the destruction wasn't completely irreparable and Donnie was able to come in (at Stern's behest) to clean up Dolan's mess.

And what does Donnie get for it? A big old "thank you, now GTFO" from Dolan. Real classy.

Donnie Walsh is the man. It's a shame he's no longer running the club.

take it one step further, Dolan hired Walsh which, in turn made it all possible. Once again, cause & effect. If we gonna blame him for the bad he should get props for the good

Please stop with this.

Dolan has been awful for the franchise since he got involved with it in 1998.

Yes, 1998. The Dolans did not own the Knicks until 1994. Most of the Knicks success is pre-Dolan.

Which is why I referenced the Dolan(s) in my earlier post. Don't tell me to stop, be an adult and agree to disagree. Dolan is actually one of the better owners in the league. He made really poor decision once...hiring IT and that was because Magic Johnson sold him on the idea of Isiah when Magic turned down the GM job.

The guy was too loyal to Isiah but, he was also smart enough to take another suggestion and hire Walsh. What has he done so terrible for the level of distaste you are showing???

How many other GM's are so willing to spend as Dolan. How many others would have eaten Billups salary on top of adding to make us a winner. Guys want to bash him but he is actually one of the better GM's.

Remember he is not a basketball guy and he has tried to use people with greater basketball knowledge than himself to help him with the decision making. It hasn't always worked and IT was a disaster but you guys are far harder on him than he deserves.

Buck stops and starts with the owner and once again...who hired Walsh.

This is absurd, Dolan gets no credit, none. Stern had to push his hand to even hire Walsh; who knows who he would have hired otherwise. And if we're blaming Magic Johnson for Isiah, who do we get to blame for Scott Layden?

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
knicks1248
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12/13/2011  7:07 PM
Donnie didn't do anything any GM wouldn't be able to do..the most he has done was clear cap space, and hire MDA..Amare came more so cause of the success he had with MDA..we had a solid team looking to prove it's worth before he blew that up..IT has a better relationship with players around the league, more so then donnie and MDA put together, he just didn't know how to put together a team chemistry wise(all talent and no brains), his vision was good, but it's like a guy who has a great idea, and has no idea on how to put it together.
ES
VCoug
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12/13/2011  7:10 PM
knicks1248 wrote:Donnie didn't do anything any GM wouldn't be able to do..the most he has done was clear cap space, and hire MDA..Amare came more so cause of the success he had with MDA..we had a solid team looking to prove it's worth before he blew that up..IT has a better relationship with players around the league, more so then donnie and MDA put together, he just didn't know how to put together a team chemistry wise(all talent and no brains), his vision was good, but it's like a guy who has a great idea, and has no idea on how to put it together.

Yeah, look at all those players crawling over each other to sign here when he was president. Eddy Curry! Jerome James! Jared Jeffries! And we didn't have to massively overpay for any of them!

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
knicks1248
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12/13/2011  7:21 PM
VCoug wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Donnie didn't do anything any GM wouldn't be able to do..the most he has done was clear cap space, and hire MDA..Amare came more so cause of the success he had with MDA..we had a solid team looking to prove it's worth before he blew that up..IT has a better relationship with players around the league, more so then donnie and MDA put together, he just didn't know how to put together a team chemistry wise(all talent and no brains), his vision was good, but it's like a guy who has a great idea, and has no idea on how to put it together.

Yeah, look at all those players crawling over each other to sign here when he was president. Eddy Curry! Jerome James! Jared Jeffries! And we didn't have to massively overpay for any of them!

jerome james had just avg a double double in the playoffs, JJ2 did pretty decent with the wiz, and was known for his abilty to guard 4 positions, maybury was better then eisly, Dice was a beast prior to the injury, curry had plenty of potential, as well as crawford...i had a major issue with the TT for KVH trade..He over paid players and he hired larry brown, that was when he derailed the train

ES
VCoug
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12/13/2011  7:33 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
VCoug wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Donnie didn't do anything any GM wouldn't be able to do..the most he has done was clear cap space, and hire MDA..Amare came more so cause of the success he had with MDA..we had a solid team looking to prove it's worth before he blew that up..IT has a better relationship with players around the league, more so then donnie and MDA put together, he just didn't know how to put together a team chemistry wise(all talent and no brains), his vision was good, but it's like a guy who has a great idea, and has no idea on how to put it together.

Yeah, look at all those players crawling over each other to sign here when he was president. Eddy Curry! Jerome James! Jared Jeffries! And we didn't have to massively overpay for any of them!

jerome james had just avg a double double in the playoffs, JJ2 did pretty decent with the wiz, and was known for his abilty to guard 4 positions, maybury was better then eisly, Dice was a beast prior to the injury, curry had plenty of potential, as well as crawford...i had a major issue with the TT for KVH trade..He over paid players and he hired larry brown, that was when he derailed the train

Dice was Layden, not Thomas; Marbury was traded in the middle of the season. We offered more money than everyone else for those other players. Where does his "relationship with players around the league" come into play?

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
knicks1248
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12/13/2011  9:11 PM
VCoug wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
VCoug wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Donnie didn't do anything any GM wouldn't be able to do..the most he has done was clear cap space, and hire MDA..Amare came more so cause of the success he had with MDA..we had a solid team looking to prove it's worth before he blew that up..IT has a better relationship with players around the league, more so then donnie and MDA put together, he just didn't know how to put together a team chemistry wise(all talent and no brains), his vision was good, but it's like a guy who has a great idea, and has no idea on how to put it together.

Yeah, look at all those players crawling over each other to sign here when he was president. Eddy Curry! Jerome James! Jared Jeffries! And we didn't have to massively overpay for any of them!

jerome james had just avg a double double in the playoffs, JJ2 did pretty decent with the wiz, and was known for his abilty to guard 4 positions, maybury was better then eisly, Dice was a beast prior to the injury, curry had plenty of potential, as well as crawford...i had a major issue with the TT for KVH trade..He over paid players and he hired larry brown, that was when he derailed the train

Dice was Layden, not Thomas; Marbury was traded in the middle of the season. We offered more money than everyone else for those other players. Where does his "relationship with players around the league" come into play?

It's been well documented..

ES
VCoug
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12/13/2011  9:37 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
VCoug wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
VCoug wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Donnie didn't do anything any GM wouldn't be able to do..the most he has done was clear cap space, and hire MDA..Amare came more so cause of the success he had with MDA..we had a solid team looking to prove it's worth before he blew that up..IT has a better relationship with players around the league, more so then donnie and MDA put together, he just didn't know how to put together a team chemistry wise(all talent and no brains), his vision was good, but it's like a guy who has a great idea, and has no idea on how to put it together.

Yeah, look at all those players crawling over each other to sign here when he was president. Eddy Curry! Jerome James! Jared Jeffries! And we didn't have to massively overpay for any of them!

jerome james had just avg a double double in the playoffs, JJ2 did pretty decent with the wiz, and was known for his abilty to guard 4 positions, maybury was better then eisly, Dice was a beast prior to the injury, curry had plenty of potential, as well as crawford...i had a major issue with the TT for KVH trade..He over paid players and he hired larry brown, that was when he derailed the train

Dice was Layden, not Thomas; Marbury was traded in the middle of the season. We offered more money than everyone else for those other players. Where does his "relationship with players around the league" come into play?

It's been well documented..

Where?

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
RonRon
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12/13/2011  10:29 PM
Walsh created the master plan to deplete roster, acquire assets, and rebuild, while waiting for Lebrons year....
a) Dolan still had to approve of it
b) get rid of Jamal, Zbo, everybody, and wait for lebrons year
c) Dantoni loses his entire starting lineup

Plan A
1)signing 2 all stars WITH the roster
a) in the meantime, to stay competive, stock assets, get athletic, add size,
b) darko, randolph, were players that could have helped the roster but Dantoni didn't use the talent.

2)STAT signs/ got first star
3)Lebron signs with the rest of the trio.

Plan B
1)Felton, Mosgov, Wiliams, signs,
a) to acquire Melo or another star in the summer, or trade with limited assets with low blow
1)Not willing to overpay for talent, will keep assets, and wait till FA to see who could sign to the core

Plan C
1)Dolan agrees to sell the farm to sell jerseys
a) Dolan makes trade 4 Melo
2)Walsh is lost of words, was stopped from his own boss from his master patient plan
a) walsh legacy and plans were tampered with, he didn't want to fix a the mess
3)I believe walsh would not have given close to those assets
a) he would do a Melo trade alone, unless for fillers,
b) i don't think he would have traded Felton for Billups,
c) keep Chandler or Gallo*most trade him, because he has greater value*
d) try to get value back for AR(he was the greatest asset of the time of DLee Trade, between Turiaf, 2 GS 2nd rounders)
e) trade would have been closer to
1) Eddy Curry for Denver to get under cap for tax reasons
2) Wilson or Gallo
3) offered 1 of the 4 Fields/2 GS Picks
4) trade A Randolph in the future if he can't regain value due to Dantoni
or
if Denver or another team is willing to throw a 1st rounder used for trade
5) 1 or 2 Future 1st rounders from New York, depending on above, look above, what Denver gets with 3 n 4

Plan Dolan
1) Walsh can't believe Dolan agrees to that trade but doesn't rat him out to media
a) is tired, doesn't want to fix anyones mess to have it screwed up in its final stages
2) Walsh is still stunned, panics, resigns Billups, although he was never part of Walsh's Plans
a)could have let him walk, not picking up his option, he could have targeted a Center with that money

Summer
1)Walsh, considers his options, decides to call it quits when his contract is up
a) was a true professional, works with Dantoni, to see what he can do in the draft to make up for assets in Melo
b) targeted a center with Vucevic but Philly takes them before us
c) lets Dantoni be that last vote, when Vuvevic got picked, and his team had a split on who to take...
2) drafts Iman and trades for Harrellson
3) resigns

Grunweld

1) lockout is finally over
a) amnesty is a new weapon
2) tries to add talent, and follow up with Walsh's "3 stars" for next summer
3) however, cant attract anyone, to go with Amare and Melo
a) no one is biting on playing in New York
b) Dantoni tells him JJ know's his system and is a veteran that will accept a 1year deal
c) agree to terms with JJ but still having a tough time filling out roster
d) realizes he cant stand seeing another year of Jeffries as our KG, looks for other options
4) rumor of $60 million 4 year deal in GS for Chandler
a) Grunweld, see if Chandler would rather play in New York with Amare + Melo
b) sell's Chandler of the idea of showing his importance, taking the lead/anchor of the Knicks D
c) Chandler loved the idea, rather than any of the team's he has visited, paying him in the same area
d) sells plan to Dolan and need's approval to execute plan with paying Billups, to amnesty him
5) looks for takers in Turiaf
a) to clear salary, he's still a 1 year gap bench player of use
b) no one takes, has to offer 3m and 2nd round pick
6) path to being REAL FINALS contenders
a) amnesty of Billups official and sign in trade in works
b) finds talent in D League, Green n Hunter
7) still deciding on who to spend 2.5mill exemption on
a) still looking on completing our roster for the championship
b) right now deciding if we should cut anyone on the roster for space
c) not willing to part with Assets for JC but would love selling him the idea of returning to the Garden for 2 years, with a players opt out option.

BasketballJones
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12/13/2011  11:58 PM
martin wrote:why isn't Isiah an option?

Right. The hatters don't want to give Cap'n Zeke any credit at all. Don't forget that Cap'n Zeke got us perfectly positioned for Donnie Walsh's subsequent moves. He also hired Grunwald, and continues to pull the strings from behind the scenes.

https:// It's not so hard.
Erniecat
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12/14/2011  12:06 AM
Walsh wins in my book, though Grunwald has obviously been mighty impressive.

As for this Dolan debate, it's a lot like Steinbrenner. He wants to win, he has a lot of money, he spends a lot of money, he makes a lot of dumb decisions.

When the Yanks were losing for much of the 80s and early 90s, Steinbrenner was a bum. When they won, he was the best owner in sports. (I still have a bumper sticker from the 80s that says: "I love the Yankees. It's George I hate.")

When the Knicks sucked, Dolan was a stupid bum.

If/when the Knicks win a title, he will be a hero.

Grunwald Vs Walsh Vs Dolan

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