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Your Thoughts on Carmelo as a Point-Forward


Author Poll
Bonn1997
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What are your thoughts on Carmelo as a point-forward?
It's a great idea
It's a good idea
Not sure
Bad idea
Likely disaster
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Author Thread
Knicksfan
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12/10/2011  12:09 PM
crzymdups wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
crzymdups wrote:
y2zipper wrote:
BasketballJones wrote:Can someone tell me if there has ever been a successful point-forward? Are we thinking Magic Johnson - forward sized guy, but he played point guard. Why does this keep coming up?

Somebody else plays a point type of position all the time in the NBA. Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant, although technically not small forwards, did this and so did Larry Bird. LeBron James does this now, and guys like Duncan and Kevin Garnett do it on in and out teams.

What it comes down to is that SOMEBODY on the floor has to be the focal point of the offense and facilitate and/or make the right type of basketball decision for the offense to work. It doesn't actually have to be the point guard. Positions are kind of wishy washy in the NBA today.

yeah, the whole point of the triangle offense is basically to have the nexus of the offense be on the elbow or in the high post. jordan/kobe morphed into more like post players later in their career. melo already has the post game - just needs to learn to pass it to amar'e in the right places. it's not a given that he can, but i think it's possible.

So we are ready for Phil Jax?

basically... yeah.

of course, next summer if the knicks can go out and get Felton or Nash with the full MLE... maybe it makes sense for D'antoni to stay.

I'd love to see a Felton return!

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martin
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12/10/2011  3:12 PM
I wish I could find the Denver article I read a couple of weeks back. It was critical of the offense the Nuggets were running while Anthony was on the team, all the back when Karl had to take time off for his cancer. The short of it was this: they should be running a LOT more PnR's with Anthony as the primary ball handler, because when they did a FG was converted somewhere around 67% of the time.... and they were specifically talking about a playoff series against either the Spurs or the Lakers, so not some lay-over defensive team. They contrasted it to the helter-skelter style of ball versus PnR with Melo specifically.
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BigDaddyG
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12/10/2011  3:19 PM
y2zipper wrote:
BasketballJones wrote:Can someone tell me if there has ever been a successful point-forward? Are we thinking Magic Johnson - forward sized guy, but he played point guard. Why does this keep coming up?

Somebody else plays a point type of position all the time in the NBA. Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant, although technically not small forwards, did this and so did Larry Bird. LeBron James does this now, and guys like Duncan and Kevin Garnett do it on in and out teams.

What it comes down to is that SOMEBODY on the floor has to be the focal point of the offense and facilitate and/or make the right type of basketball decision for the offense to work. It doesn't actually have to be the point guard. Positions are kind of wishy washy in the NBA today.

Chris Mullin at times, Scottie Pippen, Grant Hill, Danny Manning before the his knees died, Toni Kukoc, Anthony Mason and Detlef Schrempf. I also considered Vlade Divac the point center on those Sacramento teams. But most of those guys were better passer than Melo.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
y2zipper
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12/10/2011  3:22 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/10/2011  3:23 PM
crzymdups wrote:
y2zipper wrote:
BasketballJones wrote:Can someone tell me if there has ever been a successful point-forward? Are we thinking Magic Johnson - forward sized guy, but he played point guard. Why does this keep coming up?

Somebody else plays a point type of position all the time in the NBA. Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant, although technically not small forwards, did this and so did Larry Bird. LeBron James does this now, and guys like Duncan and Kevin Garnett do it on in and out teams.

What it comes down to is that SOMEBODY on the floor has to be the focal point of the offense and facilitate and/or make the right type of basketball decision for the offense to work. It doesn't actually have to be the point guard. Positions are kind of wishy washy in the NBA today.

yeah, the whole point of the triangle offense is basically to have the nexus of the offense be on the elbow or in the high post. jordan/kobe morphed into more like post players later in their career. melo already has the post game - just needs to learn to pass it to amar'e in the right places. it's not a given that he can, but i think it's possible.

Right. I trust D'Antoni to make the adjustments on the offensive end so I'm not that worried about it. Whether or not the team plays D and whether or not Melo can do it is another story.

nixluva
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12/10/2011  3:33 PM
martin wrote:I wish I could find the Denver article I read a couple of weeks back. It was critical of the offense the Nuggets were running while Anthony was on the team, all the back when Karl had to take time off for his cancer. The short of it was this: they should be running a LOT more PnR's with Anthony as the primary ball handler, because when they did a FG was converted somewhere around 67% of the time.... and they were specifically talking about a playoff series against either the Spurs or the Lakers, so not some lay-over defensive team. They contrasted it to the helter-skelter style of ball versus PnR with Melo specifically.

Yeah I hope you find that article, it sounds very interesting. What I will say is that my undying faith in D'Antoni's offensive coaching ability will not be diminished now just cuz we don't have a pure PG.

We saw an example of this when Mike had Lee playing as a Point Foward. Lee was very effective doing it with less talent around him. It's not as hard as people think if you have a talented Forward doing it. Guys like Chris Webber were very successful in being the focal point of the set and having players make cuts and him dishing short passes to them for scores.

It's going to be very interesting to see. You can imagine that since TD and Fields are more spot of 3 pt shooters, that will allow STAT n Melo to run PnR with a spread floor. Chandler will have to move away from the basket but hovering close enough to be a threat and keep his man occupied. So as the PnR develops they'll have either STAT or Melo as primary options and if Tyson's man rolls to help he'll be open to roll for the dunk.

AnubisADL
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12/10/2011  3:39 PM
Im a Melo fan and I think this is a bad idea.

I want Melo to play more off the ball to save his body for the playoffs.

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Moonangie
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12/10/2011  5:17 PM
I think he has the skills to make it work. And if it turns out to be too much for him, we'll be hunting for a PG until we find the right guy (i.e., Nash next summer). Melo is pretty good at starting the P&R, so I expect him and Stat to feast.
nixluva
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12/10/2011  5:37 PM
AnubisADL wrote:Im a Melo fan and I think this is a bad idea.

I want Melo to play more off the ball to save his body for the playoffs.

I don't see how this will put any undue strain on Melo's body. He's not bringing the ball up everytime down. This is more of a halfcourt scenario. We'll still be running some SSOL and fastbreak when the opportunity comes. In the halfcourt tho, you'll be seeing more STAT n Melo PnR which is a good thing. IMO you want Melo to be taking shots in the flow of the offense and not just ISO stuff. This makes sure that he's actually running plays as opposed to only going ISO.

jrodmc
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12/10/2011  6:28 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/10/2011  6:29 PM
Provided he's not playing PointF when JJ is on the floor...

It HAS to be better this go round than watching this being tried with Mase


and on a related note, please don't tell me this means we'll start seeing shaved messages on skulls again...

RonRon
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12/10/2011  8:13 PM
I dare you Melo, to accept this role, to be a leader, to guard your man, to take us to the Promised land

I think its a good idea. Melo has focused on since 2 main things that made him who and what he is today.
Scoring and rebounding

I don't believe, being a distributor is a strong part of his game.
However, he does have the the tools to do it, just like having the size and athleticism to be a good defender.
Being a facilitator, having trust in team mates, and being a good defender, is what sepperates him from the status of

Lebron
Durant

Wade
Rose

Jordan

He has so much confidence in his abilities to score that he doesn't trust his team mates at times.
Although, Jared Jeffries didn't score that easy dunk last year, Melo made the right decision by passing it to a wide open team mate.
As much as Lebron and the list of the above, can score, they aren't nearly as the black hole Melo is.
Those guys allow ball movement and even though they may shoot the ball 20 straight times when they touch it, they can give the ball up and are willing to move the defense.
This allow's the opponent to get fatigued and still have the element of surprise, not knowing who to guard or allowing defenders to cheat.

Chances are, once Melo touches the ball, he will, look to put the shot up. Defenses know that and use it to our disadvantage.
And vice versa, once Melo misses those bad shots, it defeats, morale and team play.
When you can trust in your team mates and they produce, by scoring, setting picks, finding the open guy, it also adds confidence to their games.
It is natural, they will play harder, cut more, set picks, and adrenaline kicks in takes over. Mentally, the team, feels they have contributed to the play.
If they miss, they feel responsible and will try to make up for it with on both ends.
It becomes an extra weapon on the court and it can have multiple effects on team play and creates chemistry.
Most importantly, it makes our opponents play honest and we can have them 2nd guessing their defensive strategy if we can achieve this and play as 1.

Like anything in life, you learn from mistakes, with trial and error, and just have to keep trying. Melo has to gain these skills before and be accept the role of being a better defender before he can hang with the above players. He has to use his energy, in area's he never did in his past with team play and defense. Conserve his stamina and brain to analyze the defense, to be a true leader and have the respect of his team mates with trust. Play a role, in which he has never truly experienced. Give credit, confidence, and the opportunity to create and gain the most out of his team. So, Yes, I want him to learn to be a facilitator because I believe he can bring his game to the next level if so. You can't possibly score every time you touch the ball. By being this guy, he will learn how to read defenses and how to react to it, having more options, gaining more faith in his team.

He has to learn to gain the most out of his team mates, individually, and as a whole. To achieve the most, out his players, and team. Sometimes, this might mean
taking a back seat, sharing the spot light and glory with the team. Being a true, leader and respect by your team, his rookies, his peers, the league, and the fans.
Taking responsibility in defending your own man, instead of trying to grab the rebound at times. You can't always cheat, depending on who he is guarding, he can't leave shooters like Delfino open, NEVER! When he can to all this, hold his own, and be able to help his team mates, he will be with the greatest.
I dare you, Melo, to accept this challenge....

Sincerely,
A Diehard Knick Fan

nixluva
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12/10/2011  8:45 PM
Melo just has to play Basketball!!! He understands that he's got a team full of capable players and that if he simply makes a simple pass to the open man he's gonna help lead his team to a title. Sometimes he's the best option but once teams start to key on him he'll find his teammates for open shots. He's too talented for this to not be an option for him as a leader of this team.
Your Thoughts on Carmelo as a Point-Forward

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