martin wrote:

Childs2Dudley wrote:Phil Jackson's teams require his big men to be playmakers. I don't believe Carmelo and especially Amar'e fall into the playmaker category.

Nevertheless, I would welcome Phil Jackson here with open arms. He could probably get the most of those guys.

Which big men play-makers did he have on Chicago? He just needed POST players to be play-makers, which include Melo.

The entire Triangle offense is predicated on having a big man that can handle the ball and make the short dropoff pass to cutters as they go to the basket or pass the ball to the wing. That player doesn't have to be a superstar. Guys like Cartwright, Will Perdue, Wennington, Longley, Rodman, Shaq, Gasol can get the job done, but not every post guy is good at handling the ball and making the right decision.

The offense starts when a guard passes to the wing and cuts to the strong-side corner. The triangle is created from a post player on the strong-side block, the strong-side corner, and the extended strong-side wing, who gains possession on the first pass. The desired initial option in the offense is to pass to the strong-side post player on the block who is in good scoring position. From there the player has the options of looking to score or pass to one of the perimeter players who are exchanging from strong-side corner and wing, a dive cut down the lane, or the opposite wing flashing to the top of the key which initiates another common option known as the "pinch post."

As for this knicks team, Amar'e is a mid to high post specialist, he's not really doing the low post thing. Amar'e wants to operate in space. Melo likes to hold the ball and get a rhythm and tho I believe he could adapt, to a certain point you have to expect he'll feel most comfortable doing what he's always done at least part of the time.
Don't know if Tyson can be a post passer in a Triangle. The best option is to use Melo as the post and have guys play off of him. Just so you know Mike has plays like that in his offense, but they aren't used as much.

nixluva wrote:

martin wrote:

Childs2Dudley wrote:Phil Jackson's teams require his big men to be playmakers. I don't believe Carmelo and especially Amar'e fall into the playmaker category.

Nevertheless, I would welcome Phil Jackson here with open arms. He could probably get the most of those guys.

Which big men play-makers did he have on Chicago? He just needed POST players to be play-makers, which include Melo.

The entire Triangle offense is predicated on having a big man that can handle the ball and make the short dropoff pass to cutters as they go to the basket or pass the ball to the wing. That player doesn't have to be a superstar. Guys like Cartwright, Will Perdue, Wennington, Longley, Rodman, Shaq, Gasol can get the job done, but not every post guy is good at handling the ball and making the right decision.

The offense starts when a guard passes to the wing and cuts to the strong-side corner. The triangle is created from a post player on the strong-side block, the strong-side corner, and the extended strong-side wing, who gains possession on the first pass. The desired initial option in the offense is to pass to the strong-side post player on the block who is in good scoring position. From there the player has the options of looking to score or pass to one of the perimeter players who are exchanging from strong-side corner and wing, a dive cut down the lane, or the opposite wing flashing to the top of the key which initiates another common option known as the "pinch post."

As for this knicks team, Amar'e is a mid to high post specialist, he's not really doing the low post thing. Amar'e wants to operate in space. Melo likes to hold the ball and get a rhythm and tho I believe he could adapt, to a certain point you have to expect he'll feel most comfortable doing what he's always done at least part of the time.
Don't know if Tyson can be a post passer in a Triangle. The best option is to use Melo as the post and have guys play off of him. Just so you know Mike has plays like that in his offense, but they aren't used as much.

You are wrong again. You keep saying the triangle is about big men in the post. INCORRECT. It's about a POST player in the post. That's why guys like Kobe and Jordan and Pippen thrived there.

nixluva wrote:

martin wrote:

nixluva wrote:

martin wrote:

Childs2Dudley wrote:Phil Jackson's teams require his big men to be playmakers. I don't believe Carmelo and especially Amar'e fall into the playmaker category.

Nevertheless, I would welcome Phil Jackson here with open arms. He could probably get the most of those guys.

Which big men play-makers did he have on Chicago? He just needed POST players to be play-makers, which include Melo.

The entire Triangle offense is predicated on having a big man that can handle the ball and make the short dropoff pass to cutters as they go to the basket or pass the ball to the wing. That player doesn't have to be a superstar. Guys like Cartwright, Will Perdue, Wennington, Longley, Rodman, Shaq, Gasol can get the job done, but not every post guy is good at handling the ball and making the right decision.

The offense starts when a guard passes to the wing and cuts to the strong-side corner. The triangle is created from a post player on the strong-side block, the strong-side corner, and the extended strong-side wing, who gains possession on the first pass. The desired initial option in the offense is to pass to the strong-side post player on the block who is in good scoring position. From there the player has the options of looking to score or pass to one of the perimeter players who are exchanging from strong-side corner and wing, a dive cut down the lane, or the opposite wing flashing to the top of the key which initiates another common option known as the "pinch post."

As for this knicks team, Amar'e is a mid to high post specialist, he's not really doing the low post thing. Amar'e wants to operate in space. Melo likes to hold the ball and get a rhythm and tho I believe he could adapt, to a certain point you have to expect he'll feel most comfortable doing what he's always done at least part of the time.
Don't know if Tyson can be a post passer in a Triangle. The best option is to use Melo as the post and have guys play off of him. Just so you know Mike has plays like that in his offense, but they aren't used as much.

You are wrong again. You keep saying the triangle is about big men in the post. INCORRECT. It's about a POST player in the post. That's why guys like Kobe and Jordan and Pippen thrived there.

I think you missed where I said that Melo would be our best option as the post option.

then why do you keep writing: "The entire Triangle offense is predicated on having a big man that can handle the ball and make the short dropoff pass"

Triangle is about having a POST player who can be effective.

Bonn1997 wrote:

martin wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

martin wrote:

nixluva wrote:I don't really think the Triangle works unless the Center and the SG/SF are good passers. I don't know enough about Chandler to know if he can pass. It's possible that it could work, but it's also a lot harder than people realize and the players have to have certain skill sets and a ball sharing disposition to excel at it. SSOL is the opposite, you only need one player to be good at passing for it to work!

don't agree with you. Check out the CHI teams, they didn't need a C who was a good passer, they just needed a post guy who was a good passer. Shaq/Gasol fit the triangle well cause they were big men who could pass and were good decision-makers. Amare/Melo fit that.

It's the post player, not the position necessarily.

Melo and Amare don't have one-tenth the passing and instant decision-making abilities those guys have. They're both towards the bottom of the league in assist:turnover ratio. That's their biggest weakness.

sigh... bonnie you better than that. Use that PHD to take the next step in analysis of players, situation, assists, TO's.

Aren't *you* better than making a content-free derogatory post?

I am suggesting you take it to the next step analytically and you find my comment derogatory?

i'm hoping d'antoni leans on melo to make some plays from the high post this season. phil jackson certainly would and i think melo would be good at it.

crzymdups wrote:
i'm hoping d'antoni leans on melo to make some plays from the high post this season. phil jackson certainly would and i think melo would be good at it.

I thought the team played it's best last year when Melo had the ball. Totally good with TD at the point with Melo on the floor.

Bonn1997 wrote:

martin wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

martin wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

martin wrote:

nixluva wrote:I don't really think the Triangle works unless the Center and the SG/SF are good passers. I don't know enough about Chandler to know if he can pass. It's possible that it could work, but it's also a lot harder than people realize and the players have to have certain skill sets and a ball sharing disposition to excel at it. SSOL is the opposite, you only need one player to be good at passing for it to work!

don't agree with you. Check out the CHI teams, they didn't need a C who was a good passer, they just needed a post guy who was a good passer. Shaq/Gasol fit the triangle well cause they were big men who could pass and were good decision-makers. Amare/Melo fit that.

It's the post player, not the position necessarily.

Melo and Amare don't have one-tenth the passing and instant decision-making abilities those guys have. They're both towards the bottom of the league in assist:turnover ratio. That's their biggest weakness.

sigh... bonnie you better than that. Use that PHD to take the next step in analysis of players, situation, assists, TO's.

Aren't *you* better than making a content-free derogatory post?

I am suggesting you take it to the next step analytically and you find my comment derogatory?

So you're not denying the content-free part!

I'm not going to take the analysis in the direction that I think you want me to because that would be a bad analysis and would lead to presently unjustifiable conclusions.

Bonnie, your brain soft like marshmallow. That's def content-free.

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:I'm not really feeling Phil anymore..I was all for Phil right around the time Brown got here...I'm not sure of the type of drive he still has...I'm not sure why he would come back..I like the type of coach that he represents tho..Not always about the X and O's but also about challenging the players as men...That's why I would prefer Doc with these players...I really don't see MDA as a fit anymore..These players need a leader or a coach they respect and I'm not sure MDA is that guy...

who were to good and great players MDA has coached? Would you say they were pushed? I mean the two all stars he had to work with were Amare and Nash and isnt it fair to say he got those two playing the best bb of their career?

MDA still hasnt had a real team since he's been here. Last year there was talentm, but it was two teams and essentially a pump and dump for Melo.

Well, we are looking at starting the year w/ a Melo/Stat/Chandler front line and guards who can shoot and defend some.

I would say your looking at the Knicks core moving forward. Lets see how he coaches this team. A team with a Melo/Amare/Chandler frontcourt should be a top 4 seed, and at least a deep 2nd round team. Upside is we should be in the NBAs final 4

I'm basing my assessment on what I have seen..MDA is not a people person...He doesn't push his players mentally, like say a Pat Riley, Doc River, or Phil Jackson...I think to get to the next level, you may have to challenge some players in that manner...Knicks aren't a young team, we have seasoned vets that might require more than a few X and O's...Also, my feeling that the pieces on this team is beyond a system...I like the pick and roll foundation, but MDA is strictly PnR coach...We can get more out of this team...