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The Payroll and Competitive Balance Myth
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eViL
Posts: 25412
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10/27/2011  2:14 PM
the MAX contract poses a particularly troublesome issue for when a team just happens to have a lot of cap space, but the free agent crop is limited. it's almost like the best free agent becomes the de facto MAX guy. not a good way to operate. Rashard Lewis is a perfect example. the MAX contract was an owner idea. had to be. it hasn't worked out.
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nixluva
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10/27/2011  2:54 PM
eViL wrote:the MAX contract poses a particularly troublesome issue for when a team just happens to have a lot of cap space, but the free agent crop is limited. it's almost like the best free agent becomes the de facto MAX guy. not a good way to operate. Rashard Lewis is a perfect example. the MAX contract was an owner idea. had to be. it hasn't worked out.

Oh it was definitely an owner idea. They had been shortening and limiting contracts for Vets and Rookies. They outsmarted themselves. Simply because they couldn't trust each other nor share revenue in a progressive way. They artificially set a higher market value not based on a free market, but as you say, if a player is the only guy on his team that COULD qualify for a Max deal he often got it whether he deserved it or not. In the past this didn't happen. To make matters worse is that it tends to happen when a team isn't really thriving cuz they don't have that Elite player that draws fans and profits. No one went to see Rashard Lewis and hardly anyone goes to see Joe Johnson! Clearly no one went to see a Jerome James or Jared Jeffries! In the past none of these guys would make the kind of contracts they got under the MLE exception.

Nalod
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10/27/2011  3:14 PM
nixluva wrote:
Nalod wrote:
eViL wrote:Nalod i know you are subtly trying to make the point that the owners made mistakes and that they are trying to fix them now and hence the battle with the players over salaries. Nix point is that the owner's previous "solutions" have done nothing to fix the league. why should we believe that continuing in the direction that the owners want to go in will work?

You don't. Its theres to break or fix. Its all based on theory.

IF its not working, why continue? Players know its broken. Im not taking sides BTW, just an observer.

eViL is speaking to my point that the owners have been messing up the system and it's their own fault that things didn't work out financially. They didn't enact the new rules due to a lack of profit, but rather to try and limit the power of the large markets. The league was making money before they made those changes, which is why they agreed to giving the players such a large portion of the BRI!!! What the owners didn't account for was the way their new ideas would impact the way teams gave players contracts. The new Max Contract and MLE only served to hurt the small market teams tho they intended that it would take away the advantages of the large markets. The big market teams still had an advantage in that the Luxury Tax wasn't stiff enough and on top of that the Max Contract and MLE served to spread the cost of Labor away from the big market teams down to the small market teams.

Case in point. If the small market teams lower their salaries in an effort to save money, they still get hit cuz the 57% BRI split had to be met and so the money came from a collective pool of all owners. Now in the past the successful teams that could afford to have a Superstar would be paying that player more money since they didn't have a Max on the top salary and thus the Elite players took up a larger % of the total BRI split and the small teams didn't have to carry that burden. There was no MLE and so mediocre players didn't get overpaid on losing teams. Guys like Rashard Lewis would tend not to get the same kind of money as elite players cuz the market didn't have artificial prices set by the new Max Contract levels. Now any player who is a low level All Star or just one of the best players on his team thinks he's a Max Level player and teams felt compelled to pay at or near max levels. So now the owners are back with new ideas. How do we know they know what they're doing any better than before? I don't think they do.

You have a new friend. A sort of buddy in your quest.

it's their own fault that things didn't work out financially

And there you go again. Rinse and repete.

All CBA problems are the owners fault in the history of any league. WE know this.

So now the owners are back with new ideas. How do we know they know what they're doing any better than before? I don't think they do.

You don't "think so"?

How do we know if it will work? The less the players get the more the owenrs get. Well there is a revelation of sorts. I done reckon that the less the players get the statistical probality of owner success increases. I have not stayed at a Holiday Inn express to work up that nor have "A beautiful Mind".

The logic presented is if the owners have not succeeded before giving the players more is NOT going to help?

Or no matter what the owners do it is doomed to fail anyway, so let the players have 53% cuz its the "Right" thing to do. After all, "they had such a good season last year."

As Obama say's: Its math!

nixluva
Posts: 56258
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10/27/2011  3:29 PM    LAST EDITED: 10/27/2011  3:30 PM
Nalod wrote:
nixluva wrote:So now the owners are back with new ideas. How do we know they know what they're doing any better than before? I don't think they do.

You don't "think so"?

How do we know if it will work? The less the players get the more the owenrs get. Well there is a revelation of sorts. I done reckon that the less the players get the statistical probality of owner success increases. I have not stayed at a Holiday Inn express to work up that nor have "A beautiful Mind".

The logic presented is if the owners have not succeeded before giving the players more is NOT going to help?

Or no matter what the owners do it is doomed to fail anyway, so let the players have 53% cuz its the "Right" thing to do. After all, "they had such a good season last year."

As Obama say's: Its math!


Here's the technical thing about all this. The BRI Split is an overall % and doesn't address individual team expenses. So teams that have overextended themselves don't suddenly solve all their debt problems. The amount that would've gone into escrow changes and the payout will likely be shared by each team, but it's not on some sliding scale based on each teams need. It will be an equal split among all teams. The amount of saving is expected to be around $280-$300 mil in which case that would amount to at best $10 mil a team. According to the owners there are many teams that are at or above $10 mil in losses. This doesn't guarantee profits and in some cases doesn't get a team out of the hole either. If a team is bad there's a chance that fan attendance could drop yet even more and thus still not allow those teams to make a profit.
jrodmc
Posts: 32927
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Member: #805
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10/27/2011  3:38 PM
nixluva wrote:
Nalod wrote:
eViL wrote:Nalod i know you are subtly trying to make the point that the owners made mistakes and that they are trying to fix them now and hence the battle with the players over salaries. Nix point is that the owner's previous "solutions" have done nothing to fix the league. why should we believe that continuing in the direction that the owners want to go in will work?

You don't. Its theres to break or fix. Its all based on theory.

IF its not working, why continue? Players know its broken. Im not taking sides BTW, just an observer.

eViL is speaking to my point that the owners have been messing up the system and it's their own fault that things didn't work out financially. They didn't enact the new rules due to a lack of profit, but rather to try and limit the power of the large markets. The league was making money before they made those changes, which is why they agreed to giving the players such a large portion of the BRI!!! What the owners didn't account for was the way their new ideas would impact the way teams gave players contracts. The new Max Contract and MLE only served to hurt the small market teams tho they intended that it would take away the advantages of the large markets. The big market teams still had an advantage in that the Luxury Tax wasn't stiff enough and on top of that the Max Contract and MLE served to spread the cost of Labor away from the big market teams down to the small market teams.

Case in point. If the small market teams lower their salaries in an effort to save money, they still get hit cuz the 57% BRI split had to be met and so the money came from a collective pool of all owners. Now in the past the successful teams that could afford to have a Superstar would be paying that player more money since they didn't have a Max on the top salary and thus the Elite players took up a larger % of the total BRI split and the small teams didn't have to carry that burden. There was no MLE and so mediocre players didn't get overpaid on losing teams. Guys like Rashard Lewis would tend not to get the same kind of money as elite players cuz the market didn't have artificial prices set by the new Max Contract levels. Now any player who is a low level All Star or just one of the best players on his team thinks he's a Max Level player and teams felt compelled to pay at or near max levels. So now the owners are back with new ideas. How do we know they know what they're doing any better than before? I don't think they do.

Let's leave right and wrong and morality and the essentials of the meaning of life behind.

The league is a league of teams, not players.
The teams are owned by owners, not players.
The league is run by a commissioner, who represents the owners, not the players.
The league polices the players, not the owners.
If the owners are phuck-ups, do everything wrong, feed fans sheehit for decades, and royally screw the sport into the ground, guess what?
Owners and the league are still going to be running things, not the players.
They provide the platform, the show, the venues and no one else is stepping up to replace them. Until the league folds or stupid rich people run out of money, the league and owners will be what they are.

This is all so pitifully redundant.

The Payroll and Competitive Balance Myth

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