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jrodmc
Posts: 32927 Alba Posts: 50 Joined: 11/24/2004 Member: #805 USA |
10/10/2011 7:36 AM LAST EDITED: 10/10/2011 7:38 AM
nixluva wrote:ItalianStallion wrote:Players salaries are not the only expense. But through the mismanagement of everything else, the owners should not have the right to control salaries. This line of logic is just continually more and more phenomenal. |
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tkf
Posts: 36487 Alba Posts: 6 Joined: 8/13/2001 Member: #87 |
10/10/2011 10:23 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:tkf wrote:nixluva wrote:loweyecue wrote:Overall I think the players are extremely greedy and I hate guaranteed contracts the thing should be abolished forever. If all other sports can do without it then so can basketball. how is he screwed? listen it is not his right to earn millions playing ball.. If he was a second round pick without a huge deal, maybe it is because he wasn't good enough and will never earn a big contract.. but for arguments sake? what do second round picks make? a few hundred thousand dollars a year, plus other benefits? guess what, my friend finished her residency as a doctor 6 years ago, and she doesn't earn anything near what second round picks can make.... A second round pick that plays for a few seasons, if he is smart with his money can come off very well with just a few years under his belt.. and god forbid any major injury if he is good enough can earn a kings ransom... BTW: landry Fields and Andy Rautins, both second round picks made 788,000 last year... far from chump change..... those guys will not starve anytime soon... Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser...............
TKF
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MS
Posts: 27060 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 7/28/2004 Member: #724 |
10/10/2011 11:49 AM
This thread is embarrassing. You can't list contracts and attendance and just trash the owners. TKF great point about the additional expenses that the owners have with state of the art training facilities, arenas, medical staff and accomadations. Not to mentioned employee salaries on top of the contracts.
At the end of the day just break down the Knicks the past 10 years Marbury 20MM, Allan Houston 20MM, Francis 16MM, Jalen Rose 15MM, Eddy Curry 11MM, Tim Thomas 10MM, KVH 10M, Malik Rose 8MM Jerome James 6MM, Jared Jefferies 6MM The NBA is filled with guys that sign long term deals and then come into camp without working on their games or their bodies in the offseason. If you can make the alternative argument (IMPOSSIBLE) as to why that marginal guys in this league deserve contracts between 5MM-9MM. 36. Shane Battier (two years, $14.3 million) 35. Jason Maxiell (four years, $20 million) 34. Andres Nocioni (three years, $21.0 million) 33. Nick Collison (two years, $13.2 million) 32. Ronny Turiaf (three years, $12.5 million) 30. Darko Milicic (one year, $7.5 million) 19. Jason Kapono (two years, $12.9 million) 14. Marcus Banks (two years, $9.4 million) The list is literally endless. There is no reason most of these guys should be paid above 2-3 MM. I don't want to here anyone ever come out in support of a league where the guys take home 5MM on average annually. You want to pay Durant, Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Duncan, Howard, Griffin that's all good. They get what they bring to the table. Hard work dedication and they put fans in the seats. |
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jrodmc
Posts: 32927 Alba Posts: 50 Joined: 11/24/2004 Member: #805 USA |
10/10/2011 11:50 AM LAST EDITED: 10/10/2011 11:50 AM
tkf wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:tkf wrote:nixluva wrote:loweyecue wrote:Overall I think the players are extremely greedy and I hate guaranteed contracts the thing should be abolished forever. If all other sports can do without it then so can basketball. But the game is about them! They are entitled to millions of dollars because they are talented athletes. Hey nix, how about asking Phil JAX and those other ex-NBA players what it's like having been paid hundreds of thousands of dollars (if not millions)and ending up having knee and hip replacements. Ask Phil Jax and those other ex-players if they would rather have done something else to earn the money they did. And your doctor friend, tkf, living in the real world with the rest of us shmoes, also probably has thousands of dollars in loans to pay back, unlike your typical 2nd round pick. |
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Nalod
Posts: 71155 Alba Posts: 155 Joined: 12/24/2003 Member: #508 USA |
10/10/2011 1:19 PM
Interesting list. I keep hearing about contraction and yet look at that list and the international players that fill up that, and so many roster spots now. The game is getting better! My point, if more revenue is generated over seas all will profit. To go into new markets requires capital to expand. Won't be long until we got 5 teams in Europe and 5 in Asia. ONly have to fill up 40 home dates. Each team in those new divisions play each other 4x that's 25% of their schedules right there. Those teams will have some longer road trips for sure but eventually you can get 10 teams in each zone. Maybe contract here but move those teams overseas if the owner wants, or he can sell. I think its really a matter of some europ teams folding in to the NBA. Barcelona for example is well established. Move the Hornets to Hong Kong! Make it a global league! and.....the players will make more |
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ItalianStallion
Posts: 20196 Alba Posts: 2 Joined: 2/22/2009 Member: #2526 |
10/10/2011 1:41 PM
tkf wrote:loweyecue wrote:I don't follow the owners are crap logic. I also don't see what a bunch of revenue numbers prove by themselves, like people have said you need to look at the bottomline, revenue is the top line. Ownwers are in it to make money they don'y owe anybody anything, least of all the fans. (I would rather if this was not the case, but reality is what it is). You are still missing the point! I am saying the same thing. There are other expenses and they are MORE FIXED! They cannot be cut nearly as easily. So it's not like a 50-50 split is actually a 50-50 split. The players salaries are massively more than the owner's profits no matter how you slice it up. |
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tkf
Posts: 36487 Alba Posts: 6 Joined: 8/13/2001 Member: #87 |
10/10/2011 6:01 PM
jrodmc wrote:tkf wrote:Bonn1997 wrote:tkf wrote:nixluva wrote:loweyecue wrote:Overall I think the players are extremely greedy and I hate guaranteed contracts the thing should be abolished forever. If all other sports can do without it then so can basketball.
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser...............
TKF
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tkf
Posts: 36487 Alba Posts: 6 Joined: 8/13/2001 Member: #87 |
10/10/2011 6:03 PM
ItalianStallion wrote:tkf wrote:loweyecue wrote:I don't follow the owners are crap logic. I also don't see what a bunch of revenue numbers prove by themselves, like people have said you need to look at the bottomline, revenue is the top line. Ownwers are in it to make money they don'y owe anybody anything, least of all the fans. (I would rather if this was not the case, but reality is what it is). Ok so what is your point? pay them the 50+ % since the owners are losing anyway? Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser...............
TKF
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tkf
Posts: 36487 Alba Posts: 6 Joined: 8/13/2001 Member: #87 |
10/10/2011 6:05 PM LAST EDITED: 10/10/2011 6:06 PM
MS wrote:This thread is embarrassing. You can't list contracts and attendance and just trash the owners. TKF great point about the additional expenses that the owners have with state of the art training facilities, arenas, medical staff and accomadations. Not to mentioned employee salaries on top of the contracts.
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser...............
TKF
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Bonn1997
Posts: 58654 Alba Posts: 2 Joined: 2/2/2004 Member: #581 USA |
10/10/2011 7:04 PM
tkf wrote:MS wrote:This thread is embarrassing. You can't list contracts and attendance and just trash the owners. TKF great point about the additional expenses that the owners have with state of the art training facilities, arenas, medical staff and accomadations. Not to mentioned employee salaries on top of the contracts. Then GMs should stop giving those kind of guys those contracts. It's not rocket science. |
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nixluva
Posts: 56258 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/5/2004 Member: #758 USA |
10/10/2011 7:12 PM
OK let's get something straight, NBA owners are BUSINESSMEN and they have the BEST financial advisers in the world. The league came up with the current system and it was supposed to be one that would allow them to do well and the players as well. How could such great businessmen repeatedly make such horrible financial deals? Moreover why do more and more new owners want to buy into such a warped system knowing the financials and the costs before they get in? It's not the players fault that the NBA salary structure is what it is. With each CBA the players tend to give ground in one way or another and yet the NBA never seems to fix the problem. Perhaps it's something else. Perhaps the owners have done a horrible job managing their teams and the league as a whole.
This isn't about making the players out to be bad guys. There are lots of endeavors in which people get paid far more than they should, so why pick on NBA players? What I will say is that even players whom you think aren't worth anything are on an elite level of human beings. The 12th man on an NBA team is still a rare athlete. We all know someone who is tall, but just think about how athletic they would have to be in order to make it to the NBA!!! Most tall people aren't able to move like NBA players can and of course the skill level is extremely high. I already mentioned that these athletes wear out their joints like a pair of tires on a traveling salesman's car. There's only so much wear and tear a joint has in it. It's supposed to last a lifetime, but players go thru them in less than a 3rd of their lifespan. Not to mention the spinal damage too. |
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ItalianStallion
Posts: 20196 Alba Posts: 2 Joined: 2/22/2009 Member: #2526 |
10/10/2011 7:15 PM
tkf wrote:ItalianStallion wrote:tkf wrote:loweyecue wrote:I don't follow the owners are crap logic. I also don't see what a bunch of revenue numbers prove by themselves, like people have said you need to look at the bottomline, revenue is the top line. Ownwers are in it to make money they don'y owe anybody anything, least of all the fans. (I would rather if this was not the case, but reality is what it is). My point is that the correct way to evaluate a business is to look at how much money it makes relative to the amount of money invested in it. It's not enough to just be profitable. If you invested 100m, you better be making 10m-15m profit. If you invested 400m, you better be making 40m-60m profit. By that standard, even some of the profitable NBA teams are probably lousy businesses. They have to be fixed otherwise the smartest thing these owners could do liquidate some of the worst teams and shrink the league. That would be a disaster for players because there would be fewer NBA teams and players. The owners have limited control over most of their non salary expenses. They have some control over player salaries in these bargaining periods. If the player's don't join the real world and agree to to terms that allow most of these teams to earn enough profit to make it all worth while for the owners, then they deserve what they get. I hope that means all the bad franchises are closed down and a bunch of players find themselves playing for peanuts or in the D league. The players are in a great position. They put up ZERO of their own money. They make tons of money in salary. Many get endorsement and other deals to supplement their salaries etc.. But they are crying when some owners have hundreds of millions of dollars invested and are losing money. I find it preposterous that anyone that understands business could have any sympathy at all for the players. |
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Bonn1997
Posts: 58654 Alba Posts: 2 Joined: 2/2/2004 Member: #581 USA |
10/10/2011 7:32 PM LAST EDITED: 10/10/2011 7:34 PM
The owners have limited control over most of their non salary expenses. You keep saying this. Can you explain it? Why does an owner have no say in how much he pays non-basketball employees or how much he spends on advertising or re-investing in the stadium? Plenty of organizations, including NBA teams I'm sure, will find a way to come up with a new huge expense (finally doing that reconstruction project they'd been putting off) in a year when they want their profits to look low (like when you're negotiating a new CBA). |
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TheloniusMonk
Posts: 21470 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 7/15/2004 Member: #705 USA |
10/10/2011 8:34 PM
Without the players no one shows up. No one cares. NBA is a ghost town. Case closed. Pay the men. Period.
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!'
-Tony Yayo
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nixluva
Posts: 56258 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 10/5/2004 Member: #758 USA |
10/10/2011 9:32 PM
TheloniusMonk wrote:Without the players no one shows up. No one cares. NBA is a ghost town. Case closed. Pay the men. Period. Exactly!!! I also don't like this notion that the Players haven't invested in this enterprise. For one thing there's such a thing as Sweat equity and the players have that in spades! They sacrifice a lot to become good enough to be a Pro Baller. Not to mention the wear and tear on their bodies which is often irreversible. Owners only risk expendable cash, but not life and limb. Both parties are invested. It looks like they're going to come up with a fair CBA in the end. However, MOST of the problem that the owners have is self inflicted. Take for example the MLE. There's no rule that you have to use it and yet how many owners have shot themselves in the face using the MLE for players that weren't worth it? That's not something you can blame on the players. How about the Max contracts given to NON Max players like Joe Johnson or even the Rudy Gay 5yr 82 mil contract extension? These teams didn't have make those deals. Players don't pay themselves, owners do. |
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Andrew
Posts: 26600 Alba Posts: 2 Joined: 7/24/2001 Member: #1 USA |
10/10/2011 9:46 PM
The problem with the arguement that owners should just not sign players to those bad contracts is the following. Even with all of those bad contracts, the owners didn't pay the players enough last season according to the current BRI split. This is why that percentage is such a huge deal for them. As the number of dollars required to produce a certain level of revenue has risen, the owners profit has dropped, but they are still required to guarentee the players money, and possibly even more money than the players are actually signed for.
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