Nalod wrote:Wade cracked. I was not there, but he clearly blinked. I have watched congressional hearings where two bit congressmen and women are blasting the presidents of the biggest financial institutions, men of means, brilliant men who have on a global stage have proven themselves and they sit there and take it.

Wade is a brilliant basketball player and perhaps a mistake to make these guys sit at a negotiating table with captains of industry. Their place is on the court, not in the board room. Money creates power and these players are used to owners and fans offering them the world. Wade wanted respect because he got kids?

Hey, I get in Dwaynes world he was disrespected but he was not dissed on the court or in the night club......These guys are paid for playing basketball and using their bodies. The mind does not expand with ones bank account.

As for wade, I have very little respect for him outside of basketball. His attention seeking documentary during the summer of Lebron using his kids as the reason he wanted to maybe play in Chicago I thought was kind of tacky.

In the end we saw three players collude in their desire to TAKE A PAY CUT and play together.

They are not in a profit sharing argument its about revenue. The owners are simply in the drivers seat until the Euroleague can match them for salary. Players can get mad and go play else where but not for the same money. Starting their own league won't yield them that kind of money either.

Im sure I would be mad if I had a 100 million dollar contract and thought I'd only get 80%. Thru the years we have heard players say "its my money" regarding the contracts.

True the owners have made bone head contract moves in attempt to either fulfill a financial model or a winning model and some of those deals have fallen thru. The star players will get hurt and they have a lot to lose. Maybe more than others. Them being passive up until now has raised questions.

Bottom line is they can stop negotiation because they are being disrespected but its about leverage. The owners know where they are going with this and where it will could end. The players have all been "prepared" and many will never feel the hurt. But many will.

Wade cracked. Maybe it was a calculated move by Stern. Stern don't care what people think of him. Don't forget, he works for the owners, not players. He gets paid 8 million a year. This is the owners game, not his. He is just a player.

great post nalod. and I would like to expand on the players playing elsewhere.. when I keep hearing people say market value for players, well how is that determined? what other market is out there for them? Europe, right? well if the euro teams are not paying anywhere as much as the NBA, then how can players say my "market" value is 100mil? I read a piece by ernie Grunfelds son, who had a bried cup of coffe trying out for the knicks and he has played a lot in europe....

Not even close when it comes to how NBA players are treated.. Private spacious jets, per diems, five star hotels, training facilities.. as opposed to europe's 14 hour bus rides, eating in cafeterias, much lower pay, late paychecks and sometimes missing checks... Not even close...

In 1997-98 season, MJ had an annual salary of $33,140,000.00 surpassing his annual salary in 1996-97 season of $30,140,000.00 making him the highest paid NBA player in NBA history....

Kevin Garnett's highest annual salary was only $28,000,000.00 when he played for the Timberwolves in 2003-04 season.

Shaq's highest annual salary was only $27,696,430.00 when he played for the Miami Heat in 2004-05 season.

You can only imagine what salaries would be now if things had not changed. No not all teams would be able to do this, but there would be some teams that could. I'm not saying that this is what i'd want, only that it's true that players could make more and did.

nixluva wrote:If not for the rigged system which limits players salaries artificially, they would make more. Do you not remember how much players used to make before the league put limits on that? In a totally free market like Baseball, some of these players would make huge contracts.

In 1997-98 season, MJ had an annual salary of $33,140,000.00 surpassing his annual salary in 1996-97 season of $30,140,000.00 making him the highest paid NBA player in NBA history....

Kevin Garnett's highest annual salary was only $28,000,000.00 when he played for the Timberwolves in 2003-04 season.

Shaq's highest annual salary was only $27,696,430.00 when he played for the Miami Heat in 2004-05 season.

You can only imagine what salaries would be now if things had not changed. No not all teams would be able to do this, but there would be some teams that could. I'm not saying that this is what i'd want, only that it's true that players could make more and did.

it looks different when you look at individual player salaries, but the aggregate would likely look the same

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

nixluva wrote:If not for the rigged system which limits players salaries artificially, they would make more. Do you not remember how much players used to make before the league put limits on that? In a totally free market like Baseball, some of these players would make huge contracts.

In 1997-98 season, MJ had an annual salary of $33,140,000.00 surpassing his annual salary in 1996-97 season of $30,140,000.00 making him the highest paid NBA player in NBA history....

Kevin Garnett's highest annual salary was only $28,000,000.00 when he played for the Timberwolves in 2003-04 season.

Shaq's highest annual salary was only $27,696,430.00 when he played for the Miami Heat in 2004-05 season.

You can only imagine what salaries would be now if things had not changed. No not all teams would be able to do this, but there would be some teams that could. I'm not saying that this is what i'd want, only that it's true that players could make more and did.

it looks different when you look at individual player salaries, but the aggregate would likely look the same

Based on what reasoning? If what you're saying is true, owners wouldn't have cared about having max salaries. I bet Lebron, Kobe, and many others would each get around $40 or 50 mil playing on teams with huge markets. How would the owners "aggregate" things in a way that would make everything come out the same? Like Nixluva was getting at, the rigged system already helps the billionaire owners. They just want the new CBA to be even further rigged to their advantage.

um, based on players' "aggregate" salaries being tied to a percentage of BRI?

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

nixluva wrote:If not for the rigged system which limits players salaries artificially, they would make more. Do you not remember how much players used to make before the league put limits on that? In a totally free market like Baseball, some of these players would make huge contracts.

In 1997-98 season, MJ had an annual salary of $33,140,000.00 surpassing his annual salary in 1996-97 season of $30,140,000.00 making him the highest paid NBA player in NBA history....

Kevin Garnett's highest annual salary was only $28,000,000.00 when he played for the Timberwolves in 2003-04 season.

Shaq's highest annual salary was only $27,696,430.00 when he played for the Miami Heat in 2004-05 season.

You can only imagine what salaries would be now if things had not changed. No not all teams would be able to do this, but there would be some teams that could. I'm not saying that this is what i'd want, only that it's true that players could make more and did.

it looks different when you look at individual player salaries, but the aggregate would likely look the same

Based on what reasoning? If what you're saying is true, owners wouldn't have cared about having max salaries. I bet Lebron, Kobe, and many others would each get around $40 or 50 mil playing on teams with huge markets. How would the owners "aggregate" things in a way that would make everything come out the same? Like Nixluva was getting at, the rigged system already helps the billionaire owners. They just want the new CBA to be even further rigged to their advantage.

um, based on players' "aggregate" salaries being tied to a percentage of BRI?

Sure, that's how it works in the current rigged system but it doesn't address my question of what would happen in a free market.

you're right... sorry, I misread nixluva's original post

jrodmc wrote:

Nalod wrote:Wade cracked. I was not there, but he clearly blinked. I have watched congressional hearings where two bit congressmen and women are blasting the presidents of the biggest financial institutions, men of means, brilliant men who have on a global stage have proven themselves and they sit there and take it.

Wade is a brilliant basketball player and perhaps a mistake to make these guys sit at a negotiating table with captains of industry. Their place is on the court, not in the board room. Money creates power and these players are used to owners and fans offering them the world. Wade wanted respect because he got kids?

I cannot believe Wade is re-using old Sprewell logic.

Nalod wrote:
Hey, I get in Dwaynes world he was disrespected but he was not dissed on the court or in the night club......These guys are paid for playing basketball and using their bodies. The mind does not expand with ones bank account.

Apparently, LeBomb hanging with Warren Buffet has set a bad precedent amongst the other poor, beleaguered union members... Can't wait until SuperDwight bursts onto the negotiating table...

Perhaps IQ actually increases with one's vertical leap...

Very good post, Nalod. Money does create power, but as we can see in the prime example of our beloved widdo JimmieDolin', it does not create intelligence...

I think Wade was saying, don't talk to me like I am a child, because I have kids and I am a grown man. He was not using the Sprewell logic in that he was not saying "I got mouths to feed." He was simply saying, "I am a grown man and even though I may be younger than you Stern, don't talk to me like I am some just out of school rookie."

I also wonder what will be the net effect of "Branding" if they lose a season?

Dwayne Wade to me was over hyped last season and I wonder if his "Brand" is still strong.

We know Lebron is diluted but "winning" will cure his image.

jrodmc wrote:

Nalod wrote:
I'd like to see a tape of the interaction between Wade and Stern.

I would wonder what would be going through Stern's mind that he thought he could accomplish something positive by pointing a finger at Wade. Or by singling out any individual player.

Who knows, we don't even know what was said or what Stern might have reacted to.

I doubt he was like: "im tired of you rich spoiled negroes getting uppity now!"..........

Was he trying to make a point? Was he actually speaking with Dwayne at the time? Was he reacting to something Wade said?

Who knows? Maybe Wade himself misunderstood. Be interesting to know!

CrushAlot wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Nalod wrote:
I'd like to see a tape of the interaction between Wade and Stern.

I would wonder what would be going through Stern's mind that he thought he could accomplish something positive by pointing a finger at Wade. Or by singling out any individual player.

Stern can be very condescending in his tone and manner. He also often behaves as if he is all powerful and posseses more knowledge than anyone in the room. I think it would take a lot of self control not to react to him in a situation where negotiations and a give and take were supposed to be taking place.

He does, and he is.

I think Wade is an ass myself.

don't have to like either to appreciate they both are very talented at what they do.

Nalod wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Nalod wrote:
I'd like to see a tape of the interaction between Wade and Stern.

I would wonder what would be going through Stern's mind that he thought he could accomplish something positive by pointing a finger at Wade. Or by singling out any individual player.

Stern can be very condescending in his tone and manner. He also often behaves as if he is all powerful and posseses more knowledge than anyone in the room. I think it would take a lot of self control not to react to him in a situation where negotiations and a give and take were supposed to be taking place.

He does, and he is.

I think Wade is an ass myself.

don't have to like either to appreciate they both are very talented at what they do.

What Has Wade done that has you thinking he's an Ass? Just curious why you don't like him.

jrodmc wrote:

TheGame wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Nalod wrote:Wade cracked. I was not there, but he clearly blinked. I have watched congressional hearings where two bit congressmen and women are blasting the presidents of the biggest financial institutions, men of means, brilliant men who have on a global stage have proven themselves and they sit there and take it.

Wade is a brilliant basketball player and perhaps a mistake to make these guys sit at a negotiating table with captains of industry. Their place is on the court, not in the board room. Money creates power and these players are used to owners and fans offering them the world. Wade wanted respect because he got kids?

I cannot believe Wade is re-using old Sprewell logic.

Nalod wrote:
Hey, I get in Dwaynes world he was disrespected but he was not dissed on the court or in the night club......These guys are paid for playing basketball and using their bodies. The mind does not expand with ones bank account.

Apparently, LeBomb hanging with Warren Buffet has set a bad precedent amongst the other poor, beleaguered union members... Can't wait until SuperDwight bursts onto the negotiating table...

Perhaps IQ actually increases with one's vertical leap...

Very good post, Nalod. Money does create power, but as we can see in the prime example of our beloved widdo JimmieDolin', it does not create intelligence...

I think Wade was saying, don't talk to me like I am a child, because I have kids and I am a grown man. He was not using the Sprewell logic in that he was not saying "I got mouths to feed." He was simply saying, "I am a grown man and even though I may be younger than you Stern, don't talk to me like I am some just out of school rookie."

Having kids gives you some sort of credibility at a negotiating table? The logic is the same as Sprewell employed. "Look at me, I can father children, so I have a valid point of view."

Unless I'm mistaken, there are 12 year-olds out there fathering children.

The issue with the Sprewell comment was his suggestion that a 3 year $21 million contract was not sufficient for him to feed his family. Wade was not saying that at all. Stern appears to have talked down to him, and Wade was essentially saying, hey I am not a child. I have children and am a grown man, so don't talk to me like I am a child. I agree there is no real correlation between being a father and your level of wisdom regarding NBA economics, but I think Wade's point was that we are all men here and you will talk to me like I am a man, not a child.