jusnice wrote:So much to think about...I am confused and have few answers. The Septa ain't a Septa, not sure who she is. The Blackfish will come back and play a role for sure. He's not dead. I originally thought that Cold Hands was Benjen, but now Mark is making me reconsider this given the age comment. I just don't understand what Cold Hands is and what his purpose is in helping Bran if he isn't Benjen. Why would he have let Samwell escape and why would he have some good in him when other brothers who have been turned do not??? Confused.

I am also very confused by what is happening to Bran. What is this underworld he is in and who is the tree man?

The only thing I firmly believe is that Arya will have a huge role in what comes next. I don't think she becomes an assasin or stays with the Faceless Men. It seems that she is learning something in each of her phases of life and that she will turn into this very well rounded, very dangerous woman. Part of me thinks she teams up with Dany since they seem to have strong moral values and aren't all about power and killing.

The Dany plot line is getting a bit old. Does anyone talk about how she must learn to control these dragons or they really aren't an asset to her at all?

Coldhands- at first I also thought it was Benjen Stark. Maybe he is? or maybe that would be too obvious? My main thought against him being Benjen is why hasn't Bran recognized him as his uncle. They are traveling together for many, many weeks. Surely Bran should notice??? Coldhands is obviously dead and so must be like the other wights in that respect. But he serves the 3-Eyed Crow who is a great Greenseer who controls many things. i.e. the flock of 1001 crows/ravens, Coldhands, the great Elk, etc.

The 3-Eyed Crow is very ancient man/Greenseer whose body is being kept alive and nourished by somehow melding with the tree. It is very strange and I have not read about this concept before. He is the 3-Eyed Crow in Bran's dreams who keeps telling Bran he can fly by opening up his 3rd eye. He is teaching Bran the ways of a Greenseer and IMO, Bran seems to already have surpassed him. 3-Eyed Crow just watches thru the Weirwoods but can't interfere or make contact. Bran already can do that but in addition he spoke out to Theon in the Godswood in Winterfell and Theon heard Bran. Therefore, made contact and communicated.

I agree with you totally about Arya. I love her and she is one person you don't want to cross. Geo Martin did a great job with her chapters because we are seeing thru the eyes and feeling the emotions of a 9 year old girl going thru all of her many adventures.

And Dany - yeah, that sure seemed very stupid for her to chain up the dragons. I thought that was an incongruous twist to the plot. But now the dragons are lose and they will kick ***. Qwentyn got toasted. I hope the same happens to the Yunkai.

The Starks were not like other men. Ned brought his bastard home with him, and called him "son" for all the north to see. When the wars were over at last, and Catelyn rode to Winterfell, Jon and his wet nurse had already taken up residence.
That cut deep. Ned would not speak of the mother, not so much as a word, but a castle has no secrets, and Catelyn heard her maids repeating tales they heard from the lips of her husband's soldiers. They whispered of Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, deadliest of the seven knights of Aerys's Kingsguard, and of how their young lord had slain him in single combat. And they told how afterward Ned had carried Ser Arthur's sword back to the beautiful young sister who awaited him in a castle called Starfall on the shores of the Summer Sea. The Lady Ashara Dayne, tall and fair, with haunting violet eyes. It had taken her a fortnight to marshal her courage, but finally, in bed one night, Catelyn had asked her husband the truth of it, asked him to his face.

That was the only time in all their years that Ned had ever frightened her. "Never ask me about Jon," he said, cold as ice. "He is my blood, and that is all you need to know. And now I will learn where you heard that name, my lady." She had pledged to obey; she told him; and from that day on, the whispering had stopped, and Ashara Dayne's name was never heard in Winterfell again.
Whoever Jon's mother had been, Ned must have loved her fiercely, for nothing Catelyn said would persuade him to send the boy away.... Jon was never out of sight, and as he grew, he looked more like Ned than any of the trueborn sons she bore him.

The Tower of Joy. A dream Ned has when he is lying unconscious after the fight with the Lannisters in the street. Ned's horse falls on him and breaks his leg.

EDDARD
He dreamt an old dream, of three knights in white cloaks, and a tower long fallen, and Lyanna in her bed of blood.

In the dream his friends rode with him, as they had in life. Proud Martyn Cassel, Jory's father; faithful Theo Wull; Ethan Glover, who had been Brandon's squire; Ser Mark Ryswell, soft of speech and gentle of heart; the crannogman, Howland Reed; Lord Dustin on his great red stallion. Ned had known their faces as well as he knew his own once, but the years leech at a man's memories, even those he has vowed never to forget. In the dream they were only shadows, grey wraiths on horses made of mist.

They were seven, facing three. In the dream as it had been in life. Yet these were no ordinary three. They waited before the round tower, the red mountains of Dorne at their backs, their white cloaks blowing in the wind. And these were no shadows; their faces burned clear, even now. Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, had a sad smile on his lips. The hilt of the greatsword Dawn poked up over his right shoulder. Ser Oswell Whent was on one knee, sharpening his blade with a whetstone. Across his white-enameled helm, the black bat of his House spread its wings. Between them stood fierce old Ser Gerold Hightower, the White Bull, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard.

"I looked for you on the Trident," Ned said to them.
"We were not there," Ser Gerold answered.
"Woe to the Usurper if we had been," said Ser Oswell.

"When King's Landing fell, Ser Jaime slew your king with a golden sword, and I wondered where you were."
"Far away," Ser Gerold said, "or Aerys would yet sit the Iron Throne, and our false brother would burn in seven hells."

"I came down on Storm's End to lift the siege," Ned told them, .,and the Lords Tyrell and Redwyne dipped their banners, and all their knights bent the knee to pledge us fealty. I was certain you would be among them."
"Our knees do not bend easily," said Ser Arthur Dayne.

"Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone, with your queen and Prince Viserys. I thought you might have sailed with him."
"Ser Willem is a good man and true," said Ser Oswell.
"But not of the Kingsguard," Ser Gerold pointed out. "The Kingsguard does not flee."
"Then or now," said Ser Arthur. He donned his helm.
"We swore a vow," explained old Ser Gerold.

Ned's wraiths moved up beside him, with shadow swords in hand. They were seven against three.
"And now it begins," said Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning. He unsheathed Dawn and held it with both hands. The blade was pale as milkglass, alive with light.
"No," Ned said with sadness in his voice. "Now it ends." As they came together in a rush of steel and shadow, he could hear Lyanna screaming. "Eddard!" she called. A storm of rose petals blew across a blood-streaked sky, as blue as the eyes of death.
"Lord Eddard," Lyanna called again.
"I promise," he whispered. "Lya, I promise

"Lord Eddard," a man echoed from the dark.
Groaning, Eddard Stark opened his eyes. Moonlight streamed through the tall windows of the Tower of the Hand.
"Lord Eddard?" A shadow stood over the bed.
"How . . . how long?" The sheets were tangled, his leg splinted and plastered. A dull throb of pain shot up his side.
"Six days and seven nights." The voice was Vayon Poole's. The steward....

Ned said. "I must know how things stand."
"My daughters?"
"They have been with you every day, my lord. Sansa prays quietly, but Arya . . ." He hesitated. "She has not said a word since they brought you back. She is a fierce little thing, my lord. I have never seen such anger in a girl."

.... Ned had pulled the tower down afterward, and used its bloody stones to build eight cairns upon the ridge. It was said that Rhaegar had named that place the tower of joy, but for Ned it was a bitter memory. They had been seven against three, yet only two had lived to ride away; Eddard Stark himself and the little crannogman, Howland Reed. He did not think it omened well that he should dream that dream again after so many years.

Main question -
1. What did Ned promise Lyanna on her deathbed? It is widely thought that Lyanna died giving birth.

2. What were 3 of the 7 Kingsguards doing at the Tower of Joy with Lyanna. They primary duty is to protect the Royal Family and none were at the Tower. The 3 were special; Ser Gerold Hightower, the Lord Commander; Ser Arthur Dayne, the fiercest warrior; and Ser Oswell Whent. Why weren't they at the places Ned mentions - Battle of the Trident with Prince Rhaegar; or Kings Landing with the Royal Family and heirs? or helping the queen and children escape?
Where were they? and what was their mission at such a critical time?

Geo Martin hasn't answered this yet but it provokes a lot of thinking, speculation, and discussion.
Any ideas?

Near the end of Book 4, Maester Aemon tells Sam on the boat to Oldtown that

"The sphinx is the riddle, not the riddler."

In the last chapter of Book 4 Sam meets Alleras while waiting to meet the head archmaester. Sam asks Alleras if he knows what "The sphinx is the riddle, not the riddler." means, but Alleras says no. Alleras brings Sam to Marwyn.

Now skip to Prince Doran Martell in Dorne near the beginning of Book 4. He rounds up all of the Sandsnakes, Prince Oberyn's bastard daughters, when they plot to start a war with the Lannisters, all except Sarella. The head of his guard asks:

“What of Sarella? She is a woman grown, almost twenty.”
“Unless she returns to Dorne, there’s naught I can do about Sarella save pray that she shows more sense than her sisters. Leave her to her . . . game."

Spell Sarella backwards.

What's she doing in Oldtown - why playing "her ....game". Probably trying to learn some of the secret knowledge taught to maesters. She was interested in nature as a child.

Jaquen did a number on Pate. The faceless men are infiltrating the citadel to either kill someone or to learn some secret or steal some artifact. Probably in Book 6.

The HBO series is ripe with beautiful, young, naked women.

Would do you think of the theory that Jojen was Bran food? I don't buy it, but some compelling arguments have been made.

Markji wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Yeah, I don't buy the Tyrion being half Targ theory. I think Tywin would have had the Imp killed a long time ago if that wad the case.

Would do you think of the theory that Jojen was Bran food? I don't buy it, but some compelling arguments have been made. I don't understand what u are saying here???

Why Tyrion might be half Targ. Numerous hints. First is thru Jon's eyes as he sees the 3 Lannister siblings and their children for the first time at the Great Hall in Winterfell (Book 1).

Cersei: She was as beautiful as men said. A jeweled tiara gleamed amidst her long golden hair, its emeralds a perfect match for the green of her eyes.
Myrcella: a cascade of golden curls
Joffrey: Joffrey had his sister's hair and his mother's deep green eyes. A thick tangle of blond curls
Jaime: tall and golden, with flashing green eyes

Now Tyrion
dwarf, half his brother's height, ....One green eye and one black one peered out from under a lank fall of hair so blond it seemed white.
Jon watched him with fascination.

Lannisters have green eyes; the Targs dark purple which sometimes seem black in dim light.
Lannisters have beautiful golden curls; Targs have straight silvery hair.
Tyrion is described as having half the features of a Lannister and half the features of a Targ.

Jon watching Tyrion with fascination ....and later befriending Tyrion. Strange behavior for a Stark to befriend a Lannister; throughout the book they hate each other; unless of course they were related by their Targ blood.

2. Tyrion loves and is fascinated by dragons and says he reads everything about them. = Targ

3. Tyrion to Jon at the Wall.
"In their father's eyes, all dwarfs are bastards, yet all bastards don't have to be dwarfs."

4. Tyrion defends and wins the battle of King's Landing by using Wildfire, a Targ weapon.

5. In book 5 we hear from Barristan Selmy that Mad King Aerys (Targ) had a thing for Johanna Lannister(Tywin's wife) and made inappropriate strong advances. IMO, he could have raped her very easily and hence, a child = Tyrion.

6. Lord Tywin was the one who sacked Kings Landing and had the entire Targ Royal family slaughtered including the children and Rhaegar's baby son Aegon. Sounds more like a man seeking vengeance than just a conqueror.

There's a theory floating around that the red paste Bran ate to awaken his third- eye was made with part love, a pinch of Werewoood seeds and a whole lotta Jojen.

Not sure if I buy it, but they do make some compelling arguments.