nixluva wrote:

Nalod wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Nalod wrote:Tennis and Golf players have earn a spot on the tour and to events, and have to pay their own way, and pay for hotel.

The same way the early pre NBA players got together and formed their own teams and made their own deals to perform in front of crowds and make money. It's not like the early Ball Clubs waited for a league to give them a job. They paid their own way and made their own money.

Globtrotters and the Rens were not owned by the players.

Initially the players did form their own teams:
"In 1928, several players left the team in a dispute over bringing back other players who had left the team. That fall, several players led by Tommy Brookins formed a team called the "Globe Trotters" which would tour Southern Illinois that spring. "

Understand that I'm not saying the pay would be equal or that players alone would be able to handle all business, promotion etc. That's just being silly to suggest that. However, it's not some impossible thing that Pro BB could exist without the NBA owners. Corporate money always helps make the money bigger. Still the product is the players and it's entirely possible for them to make money without the owners.

Crack pipe dream.

jrodmc wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Andrew wrote:

nixluva wrote: No one says anything about Movie stars or Tennis players or Golfers!!!

Funny that you mentioned tennis players and golfers. 2 sports where your non sponsorship income is based directly on how you perform and is not guaranteed. Totally different situations.

Perhaps going back to Tournaments and Barnstorming is what the players should do if the owners can't agree to a revenue sharing plan.

Yes, I'd love to see 400 guys and their money grubbing agents try to organize a league. What's the percentage of NBA players that are bankrupt within years of retirement? And these geniuses are going to suddenly revert to the 1920's mentality of setting up their own venues and managing everything that goes along with it? And things are a just a bit more complicated 90 years later, don't you think? Liabilities and insurance and damages and security and crowd control and all that good stuff. So who do the players, the fair portion of whom find it hard to run their own lives, going to turn to? Why, their agents of course! Lawyers/businessmen whose only motivation in life is to drain as much as possible in as short a time as possible out of whoever's on the other side of table. Great. Can't wait to see that happen.

It honestly would not be that difficult. You can easily get insurance and there are plenty of empty arenas around the country. You would need a pool of people to put up the startup capital (probably $200-$300 million), but even that would not be that difficult. All the players need is a strong leader and some financial backing. In 3-4 years, they would be making as much, if not more, money than they are making now. All that Tv revenue going to the NBA would then go to the new league and that league would not have all the debt financing charges that some NBA teams have from purchasing their franchises. You cut out the costs for WNBA and all the other stuff Stern has the league paying for, and I honestly don't think it would take the players 4 years to get back to their present earnings, but with even more say in the management of the league.

NYKBocker wrote:

Nalod wrote:Those two have made a ton of money.

Baseball profit sharing keeps the economics balanced but its pretty apparent KC, Pittsburgh, and others are not doing too well.

Hockey can't get on TV anymore but the dynasties are not there anymore.

Knicks squandered years wasting money and paying taxes with little result, while Small market San Antonio kicks some serious ass.

Im thinking the league might be more interesting with a hard cap.

I'd like to see more investment in more players in the Dleague. I'd like to see teams be able to buy out bad contracts and move on. And as much as I'd like to see all the best players in NY, Free agents like Shaq and Lebron really do screw a team when they leave. Im glad Cleveland has been lucky and is rebuilding quickly.

I agree with this sentiment. I would like to see a hard cap. I like the NFL model.

problem is that the nba do not make nearly as much money as the nfl if you look at individual team revenue. thats why a gren bay team can do well but atlant would be a fringe team in the nba.

jazz74 wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Nalod wrote:Those two have made a ton of money.

Baseball profit sharing keeps the economics balanced but its pretty apparent KC, Pittsburgh, and others are not doing too well.

Hockey can't get on TV anymore but the dynasties are not there anymore.

Knicks squandered years wasting money and paying taxes with little result, while Small market San Antonio kicks some serious ass.

Im thinking the league might be more interesting with a hard cap.

I'd like to see more investment in more players in the Dleague. I'd like to see teams be able to buy out bad contracts and move on. And as much as I'd like to see all the best players in NY, Free agents like Shaq and Lebron really do screw a team when they leave. Im glad Cleveland has been lucky and is rebuilding quickly.

I agree with this sentiment. I would like to see a hard cap. I like the NFL model.

problem is that the nba do not make nearly as much money as the nfl if you look at individual team revenue. thats why a gren bay team can do well but atlant would be a fringe team in the nba.

That doesn't exactly matter. It just means that the hard cap would be lower than say the NFL cap.

In the NFL, all TV and merchandise revenue is split equally, and the hard cap is slightly below the amount that each team gets in television revenue. Basically, each team gets 125 million dollars in television revenue, and the hard cap is 120 million. Basically, the structure of the league is that the television money allows every team to fundamentally compete on a financial level. They also split gate revenue 60/40 home/road. It doesn't mean every team makes or spends the same amount, but it does make the league more interesting if there's a salary floor to go with the cap.

nixluva wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Nalod wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Nalod wrote:Tennis and Golf players have earn a spot on the tour and to events, and have to pay their own way, and pay for hotel.

The same way the early pre NBA players got together and formed their own teams and made their own deals to perform in front of crowds and make money. It's not like the early Ball Clubs waited for a league to give them a job. They paid their own way and made their own money.

Globtrotters and the Rens were not owned by the players.

Initially the players did form their own teams:
"In 1928, several players left the team in a dispute over bringing back other players who had left the team. That fall, several players led by Tommy Brookins formed a team called the "Globe Trotters" which would tour Southern Illinois that spring. "

Understand that I'm not saying the pay would be equal or that players alone would be able to handle all business, promotion etc. That's just being silly to suggest that. However, it's not some impossible thing that Pro BB could exist without the NBA owners. Corporate money always helps make the money bigger. Still the product is the players and it's entirely possible for them to make money without the owners.

Crack pipe dream.

Understand that i'm not saying this would actually happen. The current system is too lucrative. However, if the players prepared for it, I believe they could actually make it happen.

This point is slightly hard to grasp.

nixluva wrote:
Also understand that when I say players, I mean the actual players AND their agents and advisers who could bring in people with experience creating content and putting on events. You and others are arguing if it's LIKELY to happen and that's not what this is about. Everyone knows that eventually something will get done. I'm only saying that it's not IMPOSSIBLE for a determined group of performers with means to be able to create their own new business model separate from the BB owners. It's not impossible, people do it everyday in other areas of entertainment.

Other areas of entertainment that are actually in any way equivalent to the NBA would be? Glorified pick up games with no coaching staff and barnstorming in second-rate venues are not going to suddenly become anything more than that because of the internet.