Moonangie wrote:Players must commit to defense because they see it as the winning way (unless they skip watching the playoffs once they are out). I was very impressed with the Knicks' defensive intensity in the Boston series, until CB got hurt and the others tired out (i.e., threw in the towel). Defensive intensity springs from leadership among the top players, and commitment from them. It has MUCH less to do with the coach. I think MDA has done a good job building a high scoring team. He needs to keep them focused on that end while Woodson (or whomever) helps improve their consistency on D. But to be a contending team, the leaders (read: Stat and Melo) have to demonstrate by their example how it gets done.

fishmike wrote:

Moonangie wrote:Players must commit to defense because they see it as the winning way (unless they skip watching the playoffs once they are out). I was very impressed with the Knicks' defensive intensity in the Boston series, until CB got hurt and the others tired out (i.e., threw in the towel). Defensive intensity springs from leadership among the top players, and commitment from them. It has MUCH less to do with the coach. I think MDA has done a good job building a high scoring team. He needs to keep them focused on that end while Woodson (or whomever) helps improve their consistency on D. But to be a contending team, the leaders (read: Stat and Melo) have to demonstrate by their example how it gets done.

exactly... the crap the same people post over and over again about the coaches is just that... crap. The defense was good in the Boston series (at least for stretches) because Melo and Amare played defense. Its that simple. If they are commited to it it will show on the floor. When Melo commits to defense it will improve. Raja Bell was first team defense under MDA. Obviously the tools posting these articles could care less about such things.

"Coach knows offense," one player explained. "It would be nice to set plays, control pace and not jack up shots just because you're open. But that's what Coach does. You could live with it if we played defense. But obviously, we haven't done that much. Good, bad or otherwise, all I can say is that I've never seen anything like this."

As far as Bell is concerned I am sure there is some merit to acquiring guys that played four years for hof coaches like Brown and Sloan that emphasize defense, prior to playing for this coach. Maybe the instilled defensive mindedness would transfer to a team where those things aren't emphasized by the coach like it did with Bell in Phoenix.

He wasn't bad in Atlanta. Not very creative but he makes sure the ball gets in the hands of the stars.

CrushAlot wrote:As far as Bell is concerned I am sure there is some merit to acquiring guys that played four years for hof coaches like Brown and Sloan that emphasize defense, prior to playing for this coach. Maybe the instilled defensive mindedness would transfer to a team where those things aren't emphasized by the coach like it did with Bell in Phoenix.

hahahahaaha that's laughable. what's your excuse as to why Marion played good D while in PHO?

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Moonangie wrote:Players must commit to defense because they see it as the winning way (unless they skip watching the playoffs once they are out). I was very impressed with the Knicks' defensive intensity in the Boston series, until CB got hurt and the others tired out (i.e., threw in the towel). Defensive intensity springs from leadership among the top players, and commitment from them. It has MUCH less to do with the coach. I think MDA has done a good job building a high scoring team. He needs to keep them focused on that end while Woodson (or whomever) helps improve their consistency on D. But to be a contending team, the leaders (read: Stat and Melo) have to demonstrate by their example how it gets done.

exactly... the crap the same people post over and over again about the coaches is just that... crap. The defense was good in the Boston series (at least for stretches) because Melo and Amare played defense. Its that simple. If they are commited to it it will show on the floor. When Melo commits to defense it will improve. Raja Bell was first team defense under MDA. Obviously the tools posting these articles could care less about such things.

Its pretty hard to ignore quotes like this from players after a team has been swept in the playoffs.

"Coach knows offense," one player explained. "It would be nice to set plays, control pace and not jack up shots just because you're open. But that's what Coach does. You could live with it if we played defense. But obviously, we haven't done that much. Good, bad or otherwise, all I can say is that I've never seen anything like this."

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/columns/story?columnist=smith_stephen&id=6425665

As far as Bell is concerned I am sure there is some merit to acquiring guys that played four years for hof coaches like Brown and Sloan that emphasize defense, prior to playing for this coach. Maybe the instilled defensive mindedness would transfer to a team where those things aren't emphasized by the coach like it did with Bell in Phoenix.

so we should get guys like that then instead of softies like Melo right? Does Deron play defense? Cause he was with Sloan. Does Derrick Rose play defense?

you can ignore anything you want, or you can blow it up and make it all about that. You can scour the internet for quotes all day.

we got smoked in that series because Paul Piece is >>>> than Melo in crunch time and Amare got hurt. Quote that. Cant ignore that can you? NO YOU CANT. Quote that hooker

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:As far as Bell is concerned I am sure there is some merit to acquiring guys that played four years for hof coaches like Brown and Sloan that emphasize defense, prior to playing for this coach. Maybe the instilled defensive mindedness would transfer to a team where those things aren't emphasized by the coach like it did with Bell in Phoenix.

hahahahaaha that's laughable. what's your excuse as to why Marion played good D while in PHO?

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:As far as Bell is concerned I am sure there is some merit to acquiring guys that played four years for hof coaches like Brown and Sloan that emphasize defense, prior to playing for this coach. Maybe the instilled defensive mindedness would transfer to a team where those things aren't emphasized by the coach like it did with Bell in Phoenix.

hahahahaaha that's laughable. what's your excuse as to why Marion played good D while in PHO?

I had to look back but Skiles was Marion's coach for parts of the first three years he was in the NBA. Two of those years Skiles teams ranked second and third in the nba in defense. Two years later with D'Antoni they dropped to 22nd.

You need to get your facts straight. In almost every thread i've had to correct you on something you've misstated or exaggerated. You don't go by points allowed to determine how good a team is defensively. You use Defensive Rating:

2003-04 1st partial year w/Suns they ranked 19th
2004-05 they ranked 20th
2005-06 they ranked 19th
2006-07 they ranked 16th
2007-08 they ranked 17th
2008-09 NY ranked 24th, coincidentally PHX dropped to 25th that year
2009-10 NY ranked 27th
2010-11 NY ranked 21st

NY being a bad defensive team had less to do with MDA's coaching as it did that the teams were full of AWFUL, historically selfish and bad defensive players. His Suns were a better defensive team than the Knicks have been, but I think that will change this year. I think after the playoff sweep, this team realizes that they can play with the better teams if they can just improve their D. STAT and Melo stepped up their D and I think they're both motivated to do better. If they can add a real C then I expect that the team will win big this year and compete with the elite in the East.

I am not sure where your numbers are coming from.

I get that.

The reality is I don't think that Stat and Melo are championship caliber players. I know Melo won a national championship with 'Cuse but that is really a tournament and very often not the best team wins. Luck of the draw, matchups the hot hand wins march madness. A playoff series would yield a different outcome.

I think MSG is commited to putting a fun product out there and winning does draw. MDA won last year. MDA is a winning coach who has a unique offense that is fun to watch.

I am not one to look back to the 90's Knicks and lament that we should be like them again. It was what it was back in the day and time past has made the era more appealing than it was to watch.

This is not to say the team can continue to get better Melo/Stat can get the right players around them and perhaps make a run at it. Teams like Utah, Sacremento, and PHX were all contenders for a while but had do deal with either Chicago, Lakers, or the Spurs at some Point. Each of them were talented enough to win a championship but sometimes lady luck is a bitch. IT happened to us once or twice also. Not always the best team wins.

In any event I believe in progress and MDA fluid style is appealing to me. A few tweaks here and there and who knows what can happen.

YOu bring in Melo/Stat and I can't imagine you go the way of Thibs/Skiles. Bulls fell short because of offensive problems not defense. Skiles has had bad luck in Buckland with injury.

You win by outscoring the opponent. If not, its got to be close and has to be fun to watch.

CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:As far as Bell is concerned I am sure there is some merit to acquiring guys that played four years for hof coaches like Brown and Sloan that emphasize defense, prior to playing for this coach. Maybe the instilled defensive mindedness would transfer to a team where those things aren't emphasized by the coach like it did with Bell in Phoenix.

hahahahaaha that's laughable. what's your excuse as to why Marion played good D while in PHO?

Just wondering about forum etiquette. Where do being called a tool and hooker come in? Your a mod right?

The bottom line is your scouring the internet for one side of an arguement. I could do the same thing and post 10 articles on why Melo will never win anything because he's lazy doesnt make teammates better, doesnt commit any effort to defense, the Knicks were better without him and is a selfish player. Does that make all those things true?

FACT: Steven Smith HATES MDA and wants him fired. He's been outspoken. Posting articles from him is like posting stuff on Obama from Fox news. Why bother?

And the defense was a good in the Boston series as the effort put forth from the players. We lost because Paul Pierce is better than Melo in crunchtime and Amare got hurt. NOT because our coach didnt emphasize defense.

Ill check in a month or so... of a year, or a decade and until we win a title Knick fans (tools that we ALL are for loving this clusterphuck of a team) will STILL be blaming coaches for the teams failures... JVG couldnt coach offense, Chaney sucked, Lenny sucked, Larry sucked, Isiah sucked, MDA sucked, Mike Woodson sucked, Isiah sucked (round II), on and on and on

You cant deny it.

Hookers a compliment... that means you phuck and get paid. Your welcome

Moonangie wrote:

Nalod wrote:I thought the game was who scores the most points wins?

It is, but an important part of that involves preventing the opponent from scoring.

I keep reading about these rankings of MDA coached teams.

Only one stat is important to me. Wins or losses.

I think MSG cares more about ratings and revenue.