I would rather TD run the point (yikes!) and Shumpert develop as an offguard.

Gymkata wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

nixluva wrote:

islesfan wrote:One dimensional defensive player who is below average across the board on offense. Can't run an offense, makes poor decisions with the ball and can't shoot. Yes he can help with perimeter defense but he doesn't have a position on offense. There were better players who filled bigger needs.

He gets to the line and shoots 80%! He avg'd 6 rebounds and with his great speed he can initiate the break and even finish above the rim or get fouled, where as I said he shoots 80%. Jumpers can be improved with a little hard work. It appears that has happened already. Can't say if he is bad at running an offense but i'm sure the Knicks got all the footage they need to see how he handled running a team.

Who are these better players and what "bigger need" could they fill, considering we needed help at guard?

I understand you like the pick, but as someone who watched a lot of his NCAA games, he makes poor decisions. He is not a natural point.

If you want to talk numbers, let's focus on his 27.8 percent three point shooting on 151 attempts, 5 attempts per game. I guess he finally shot over 40 percent form the field this season at 40.6 percent.

But most telling is his points per shot. 1.22, 1.11, and 1.23 his three years at GT. Everyone loves efficiency stats on this board, and I thought it was telling that he was even least efficient when he played with the best talent.

He certainly has physical gifts, and can defend, but he lacks polish and it certainly is not a forgone conclusion that this pick will work out or that it will pay immediate dividends. His physical gifts were more of an advantage in college than they will as a pro, and he was only considered as a first round pick after working out--not for what he accomplished on a basketball court

That's all valid. Again, this was one of the weakest drafts in years and we picked 17. If we can get a rotation guy out of this, then it's a win.

agree with the bold. He's much more of a development project than I think some are willing to admit

SupremeCommander wrote:I keep saying, I have watched a lot of GT basketball the past couple of seasons. The most concerning aspect of his game isn't seen by the numbers: he's a poor decision maker.

I would rather TD run the point (yikes!) and Shumpert develop as an offguard.

See, that's another reason why I'm not down on the pick. If the Knicks make a run at Paul or D-WIll like we all think, isn't Shumpert still valuable as a defensive weapon? I know that's speculation, but I'd rather deploy him as a Bowen-like defensive specialist on the beast guards of the East and leave the decision-making to a Billups or INSERT STUD PG HERE and the scoring to our two Alpha dogs. If he develops into something more, that's gravy. Regardless, we weren't picking the next John Stockton at 17.

Gymkata wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I keep saying, I have watched a lot of GT basketball the past couple of seasons. The most concerning aspect of his game isn't seen by the numbers: he's a poor decision maker.

I would rather TD run the point (yikes!) and Shumpert develop as an offguard.

See, that's another reason why I'm not down on the pick. If the Knicks make a run at Paul or D-WIll like we all think, isn't Shumpert still valuable as a defensive weapon? I know that's speculation, but I'd rather deploy him as a Bowen-like defensive specialist on the beast guards of the East and leave the decision-making to a Billups or INSERT STUD PG HERE and the scoring to our two Alpha dogs. If he develops into something more, that's gravy. Regardless, we weren't picking the next John Stockton at 17.

On one hand, that's a more than valid point.

On the other hand, he has shown a penchant for REALLY forcing the issue despite his obvious shortcomings. In this offense, he'll be asked to take his shots. But I don't think he yet understands the difference between good and bad shots. Combine his poor selection and decision making with the work he needs to do with improving his shot in general, he may play his way into Pringels' doghouse early and then who knows what happens

All the articles that are coming out seem to indicate that he will be asked to man the point from time to time as well. I think that would be a huge mistake in Shumpert's development

SupremeCommander wrote:

Gymkata wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:I keep saying, I have watched a lot of GT basketball the past couple of seasons. The most concerning aspect of his game isn't seen by the numbers: he's a poor decision maker.

I would rather TD run the point (yikes!) and Shumpert develop as an offguard.

See, that's another reason why I'm not down on the pick. If the Knicks make a run at Paul or D-WIll like we all think, isn't Shumpert still valuable as a defensive weapon? I know that's speculation, but I'd rather deploy him as a Bowen-like defensive specialist on the beast guards of the East and leave the decision-making to a Billups or INSERT STUD PG HERE and the scoring to our two Alpha dogs. If he develops into something more, that's gravy. Regardless, we weren't picking the next John Stockton at 17.

On one hand, that's a more than valid point.

On the other hand, he has shown a penchant for REALLY forcing the issue despite his obvious shortcomings. In this offense, he'll be asked to take his shots. But I don't think he yet understands the difference between good and bad shots. Combine his poor selection and decision making with the work he needs to do with improving his shot in general, he may play his way into Pringels' doghouse early and then who knows what happens

All the articles that are coming out seem to indicate that he will be asked to man the point from time to time as well. I think that would be a huge mistake in Shumpert's development

I suppose the good news is he could be taught shot selection. With STAT and Melo out there, it would be hard for him to jack up garbage. The MDA Doghouse certainly looms, but I hope the wingman drought we have on this team would earn Shumpert some slack (as Walsh mentioned, there are minutes to be had for Shumpert; a rookie forward, not so much).

Let me ask you: from what you've seen from this kid, does he have the tools to be a top-line defender?

SupremeCommander wrote:anyway, lots of "ifs" with Shump, which esentially is the point I've been trying to make. It's neither sunshine and rainbows nor doom and gloom. A risk with equal upside and downside

That's potential for you. You just don't know what you are going to get.

If he's left open, MDA needs to tell him not to shoot and instead drive to the basket. He seems to have the ability to finish around the basket- at least that was from the videos posted. He may not be able to pass in traffic, but if he can finish on the break and brings defense, this pick is a win.

As for as Singleton and even Faried, they are players that are forwards, in which our 2 players combine for 2/3s of the salary cap. They won't work together because their defense would be killed every night. Why pick someone, knowing that they cant work together. In the end Singleton and Faried can't play center, neither can Amare.

Shumpert, was one my 2nd choice, I preferred Nikola Vucevic and would have giving up Fields to Pacers in order to get him. I wouldn't pick a forward because of the reasons above.
I think a lot of us wanted thim, because we felt he is a smart all round player that could work with Amare, Melo, and most importantly, Dantoni.

He can become a lockdown defender at the position that has been dominating the league the past couple of years, PG.
He has the speed, size, length, agility, speed, athleticism, and wants to become a defender.
I would really like to see a team like

TD
Shumpert
Ariza
Lamor Odom
Tyson Chandler

I think this team would be so sick defensively.

I think Shumpert's low can become Keyon Dooling and ceiling would be Russell Westbrook.
Marshon Brooks was the only other player I would think to take at pick 17. I think Jeremy Tyler fell all the way down the the middle 2nd round for a reason, and then traded to GS
for cash. Don't get me wrong, I would have loved to buy him off the Bobcats, but I don't think Bobcats and especially Jordan wanted to help any team in the east, especially the Knicks. I think we will need to acquire some more players but we are taking the right steps to getting there.

Lets give this kid some time, we have been complaining about our defense and now Walsh grabs a player that wants to defend and also has a high ceiling in Westbrook comparisons.
We need to let him develop, its not an easy job to do that, look at Ariza. We now have forces in Amare and Melo helping him develop. On top of it, he will have plenty to learn from
from Billups mentoring him. TD and Laundry Fields can both give him advice as a rookie as well. TD and Shumpert both make each other better too. They both play the passing lanes extremely well, are both long, and both aren't great decision makers. But TD now can focus on spotting up for a wide open shot because Shumpert has the ability to create for others.
He is extremely fast, with the size, and athleticism, and has a SICKKKKKKKK first step. On top of it, Melo and Amare have so much attention on them already.

I just wonder if he will be playing the PG, SG, or SF, because I think he will eventually have the ability to play all 3. If Billups mentors him and Shumpert grows with the ability to become a PG, with his size, we can have our big 3. I don't mind TD becoming a backup PG/combo, in the role of Jason Terry. TD needs to improve and he has the heart to and ethics to do so. He needs a more consistant mid range game, finishing, mastering the floater, and making better decisions.

Shumpert
XxXXX
Melo
Amare
XXXX

TD
Shawne Williams
Jerome Jordan
Josh Harrellson
Balkman

I am looking at 2012, I see this year as a true learning year with Melo, Shumpert and the rest of our team together. We will fill out our holes by next summer, in the mean time, we want to establish a foundation and system in which how we would be playing. I think we will still be playoff contenders but its unlikely that we become Championship contenders.

I think SG is the easiest position the fill in the league. Its unclear if Shumpert will become our future PG or starting SG. But I hope he can become a PG in which we would have a mismatch on our favor at that position for the first time in my eyes.
Get some D league talents, in the athletic, long and lanky, shot blocking, rebounding, and defense!

I think many teams will be looking for Dalembert services, I think he would choose Miami, if he chooses the best possibility of winning over $$$. Mainly for 2 reasons
1) His role is set, pretty sure he is a Starter. He gets to play d, block shots, rebound , get easy put backs while attention is all on Wade, Bron, and have Bosh to help out too.
2) no state tax, I am not sure if its for Orlando too, but He is not a lock to start there and if Dwight doesn't sign an extention, he could diminish Dalemberts hopes of winning rings

We need a combination of veteran and young legs to balance it out to become Championship Contenders. for this year, we might want to leave some longer contracts out and have the cap flexibility to make a play at FA next summer. But we still need to acquire some help, even if we have to sign longer contracts, I feel we must go for it, as long as it is cost efficient. Depending on how this CBA ends up, we will have a better idea what we have to work with for this summer and next...CBA could set the cap at 70 mill
If Turiaf opts out we can have a about 7m to spend.

We have to get a poorer version of Dalembert....

Sean Williams is at the top of my list.

Jeff Adriean, I have never seen him play, but some people here feel he can help. I think he seems a little small, he is the same size as Shumpert, I don't know if he can play center for us, or even PF.

Jeff Foster is a solid player. I think if he can play like the way he did back in the Artest/Stephan Jackson/Jo days, he will be a complete steal and a cheap veteran.

Prizbilla would be anti Dantoni but would be a great body to have.

I am not sure if we want to go with the tradional SG that can flat out shoot or a all round game.

Kapono
Anthony Parker
Shannon Brown
Grant Hill
Predrag Stojakovic
Delone West

All of the above most likely wont cost too much. Most a veteran min signings. Shannon Brown, Anthony Parker, and Prizbilla might cost a little more...

Wilson Chandler
J.R. Smith
Tyson Chandler
Kris Humpries
Tony Parker

these guys above will cost a lot more, and would hurt our flexibility for next summer.

Some other FA of the top of my head are

Dampier, Nazr, Ryan Hollins, Reggie Evans, Leon Powe, Josh McRoberts, Tj Ford, Dunleavey.
Brandon Wright *dont think NJ will give him the 4.5m qualifying offer*

In 2012, if cap set at $70m we can have about $25 mill so spend, if we don't add any contracts and keep all of ours. The FA list include.

Dwight Howard
Deron Williams
Cp3
Duncan
Kaman
KG
Ray Allen
Steve Nash
Mo Williams

I can see some of these veterans, coming to New York for a chance at a ring. That's why we must establish ourselves this year and it can cause a chain reaction.
We also don't want to be too ****y and make enemies this year. We would like some of these guys to join us and increase our chance at winning.
This is the year summer we can finish building our team and become Championship Contenders with added depth, veteran leadership, fill all our holes, and have luxury players!
I know I am dreaming but think about this squad...

Shumpert
Ray Allen
Melo
Amare
Dwight Howard

TD
KG
Shawne Williams
Jerome Jordan
Josh Harrellson
Balkman
Anthony Parker
Wilson Chandler

You can check out WFAN/Boomer-Carton Interview podcast, though later Iman had interview with Francessa a very good
interview by Mike and should check that out when available if you missed it.

Carton-Boomer/Iman Shupert Knick Interview:
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/?podcast_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.podtrac.com%2Fpts%2Fredirect.mp3%2Fnyc.podcast.play.it%2Fmedia%2Fd0%2Fd0%2Fd0%2FdY%2Fd1%2FdQ%2FdH%2FY1QH_3.MP3%3Fauthtok%3D5561491166116276438_19c4OXsQyWSnDghG0zW7UjQiI&podcast_name=Iman+Shumpert&podcast_artist=Boomer+Esiason+and+Craig+Carton&station_id=91&tag=&dcid=CBS.NY

regards
DJ