Olbrannon wrote:That you need a real center to win.

That was absolutely going to be my reply.... you are spot on.

Whenever Chandler hit the bench the Heat would go on a run.
With Chandler the heat were a jump shooting team, without him they were able to get to the rim almost at will.

Olbrannon wrote:That you need a real center to win.

And the right PG, of course.

I have never been one who thought Anthony and Amare were a good pair together- I see too many similarities in their games. Wade or Lebron (don't know if I feel the same about James, now) would be better with Amare than Anthony, IMO.

We also need a big center who can cover up for the defensive deficiencies of A and A, and a pure shooter who can benefit from teams having to pay so much attention to them, but does not need the ball all the time to be effective.

To be honest, we need a lot of players who can fill certain roles at this point. Maybe that's what I learned. I thought that we were actually doing that prior to the trade, but I guess I was wrong.

nixluva wrote:Amar'e is a great finisher, but here he had to be an initiator on offense. We barely got Felton working the PnR and then when we got CB he couldn't do it at all. So really we haven't used Amar'e the way he's most effective. You want a PG that can penetrate and draw defenders leaving Amar'e to cut to the basket and finish or get fouled. That means the PG has to be such a threat with the ball that teams have no choice but to focus on stopping him. The same goes for Melo. You don't want him trying to score every time by beating his man off the dribble. We had too much of that last year and that's not what the offense is about. This offense is designed to create open shots for everyone, but it won't work if the PG isn't able to do the basic things this offense requires. None of our PG's are the right fit for this offense and that is a shame. This is why I want a PG in this draft. We need someone that can get to the basket and score as well as shoot from outside. Also we need a PG that can setup his teammates off PnR and dribble penetration. We haven't had a good breakdown, drive and kick PG and that would really help.

I find your focus offensive ;-) The big plays were made on defense. They do not beat the Heat without Chandler. You could also argue they do not get to the playoffs with as good a record without Haywood. Including Dirk that's 3- 7 footers. Dallas turned Miami over and would not allow them to penetrate. Mavs made runs from behind against Portland OKC and the Heat shut down and ran down. On occasion I remember the Heat backing again after a good defensive series unable to secure the rebound. Much as the Knicks often did last year.

On several occasions the Mavs came from behind with runs while shutting down the Heat penetration. They could not knock down the 3's the Mavs boxed out secured the ball and never let being behind bother them. They defended the paint.

As for drive and kick; TD did it in college. He forget how?

Nalod wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Nalod wrote:Heat Still beat Bulls and still reached the Finals.

Perhaps against another team they win the finals.

We learned you can "Beat the Heat"!

The Bulls weren't ready for prime time. They were really good, but more of a regular season hero, than a real Championship level team. I don't think that it will be impossible to rise up to the level of the Bulls and Heat. We have to really hit a home run this offseason, but it's not impossible. We may not do it in the exact same way as those teams. I think both teams are setup to be great defensive teams and OK offensively. We have a much better offensive team, but not close on defense yet. We know that the Knicks are gonna go out and try to upgrade the bigs and defensive talent on the team, hopefully a two way PG too.

So what are you saying?

Im saying for all the Heat's failure they came within a hair of winning on talent alone.

What we have learned is Dirk's and Terry's failure FIVE years ago burned inside and drove them.

Dirk emotionally grew. he was MVP after, and resigned with his team. Jet got a Tatoo before this season of the trophy!
Most thought Lakers, Spurs or Thunder would make finals.

I don't see Carmelo rising to this level until he really really wants it. Just my view on him. Kind of like Lebron, he loses but he will still make $50 mil this year, and next, amaze people, and everyone around him will love him and tell them they love him.

Melo has crazy ability and would hope he works on his fundamentals so he does not rely on his quickness like Bigg Dogg and Glen Rice did. Otherwise at age 30 he'll be average.

Failure to close it out taught Dirk and Terry.

Failure to reach the next level taught Carlisle.

Failure to keep his mouth shut and starphuch taught Cuban.

Mavs were fortunate to make it back and did well with the opportunity. Miami just played not to lose. Played in fear.

The Three in Miami took pay cuts to do it there. That I give them credit.

They only signed three year deals I thought. We got long term lock in with our two.

"We need a home run off season"...............Dude, ain't that the truth!

But what looms? Bulls will be better? Orlando got talent, ATL got talent, Sixers could reformulate with assets and Im sure others can rise too.

And the Heat could have a good offseason also!

My point? Lets get to 50 wins and thru the first round with a balanced balanced roster together mostly one season then we can evaluate MDA properly and see what our assets look like.

Gonna be a lock out most likely. We might not have that full season. A short camp, a short season? Worked in 99' but that was then.

Have to agree with you on almost all of these points...Winning a Championship is about overcoming failure...Learning what you can't do and coming back stronger as a result hard work...The Knicks have to learn what caused them to lose the tough battles of the playoffs and build on that...We are still trying to assemble the pieces...This loss was huge for Miami and they will be back stronger and better next year...I think the Melo is the key..We know what we will get from Amare, Melo have to grow as a player which only happens in tough losses...This player also has to have the fortitude to improve on his deficiencies, work in the off season to get to the next level...I saw this a lot in the 80s and 90s with Bird, Magic,MJ, Isiah and the Pistons...Just a great era for basketball...we could be approaching that kind of play again with all the teams that are on the cusp of something special...

That's why I can't shed a tear for what we lost to get these players...We have next level talent, now how badly do they want it...Who is going to work on their three point and outside shot like Magic did...Who is going to put on muscle and work on their post game like Michael did...Who is going to be relentless with hard play and toughness like Detroit was...How is going to play the consummate team game like Boston and the Lakers did...I'm happy our young players like TD and Fields got a taste of what it's going to take to get there, baptism by fire if you will...Let's see how they improve next year...

What we can learn from the Mav's is that Championships take hard work and desire...Everyone has to be on top of their games including the coaches...No one get's a pass, you will be exposed in the playoffs trying to get that elusive ring...

That's why I'd target getting a big in the draft like Vucevic or Tyler and also a playmaking guard who can relieve Chauncey and also play next to him - like Darius Morris, Charlie Jenkins, Iman Shumpert, Josh Selby. Something like that.

And that's not just from looking at the Mavs - a point guard to run the offense and a defensive big were clearly the most glaring holes in the lineup against Boston.

Bonn1997 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I think the main thing the Knicks can learn from the Mavs is a) the addition of Tyson Chandler changed that team completely. and b) the way they handled the Kidd situation - they added miles to an aging PG by having a capable backup in Barrea who could not only relieve Kidd for long long stretches, but can also play beside him and take playmaking responsibilities off his plate. Barrea was also a complete change of pace from Kidd, which seemed to be hard for teams to adjust to.

That's why I'd target getting a big in the draft like Vucevic or Tyler and also a playmaking guard who can relieve Chauncey and also play next to him - like Darius Morris, Charlie Jenkins, Iman Shumpert, Josh Selby. Something like that.

And that's not just from looking at the Mavs - a point guard to run the offense and a defensive big were clearly the most glaring holes in the lineup against Boston.

The thing is, they left themselves in a position to have a franchise player AND add all the necessary role players. We have few draft picks, little cap space, and maybe half of an 8 man rotation.

the Mavs have been over the cap for the past 8 years or more. i wonder how they were able to build a team, despite being consistently over the cap?

crzymdups wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I think the main thing the Knicks can learn from the Mavs is a) the addition of Tyson Chandler changed that team completely. and b) the way they handled the Kidd situation - they added miles to an aging PG by having a capable backup in Barrea who could not only relieve Kidd for long long stretches, but can also play beside him and take playmaking responsibilities off his plate. Barrea was also a complete change of pace from Kidd, which seemed to be hard for teams to adjust to.

That's why I'd target getting a big in the draft like Vucevic or Tyler and also a playmaking guard who can relieve Chauncey and also play next to him - like Darius Morris, Charlie Jenkins, Iman Shumpert, Josh Selby. Something like that.

And that's not just from looking at the Mavs - a point guard to run the offense and a defensive big were clearly the most glaring holes in the lineup against Boston.

The thing is, they left themselves in a position to have a franchise player AND add all the necessary role players. We have few draft picks, little cap space, and maybe half of an 8 man rotation.

the Mavs have been over the cap for the past 8 years or more. i wonder how they were able to build a team, despite being consistently over the cap?

they had 8 years to finally do it. And a massive amount of luck picking up Tyson Chandler.

martin wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

crzymdups wrote:I think the main thing the Knicks can learn from the Mavs is a) the addition of Tyson Chandler changed that team completely. and b) the way they handled the Kidd situation - they added miles to an aging PG by having a capable backup in Barrea who could not only relieve Kidd for long long stretches, but can also play beside him and take playmaking responsibilities off his plate. Barrea was also a complete change of pace from Kidd, which seemed to be hard for teams to adjust to.

That's why I'd target getting a big in the draft like Vucevic or Tyler and also a playmaking guard who can relieve Chauncey and also play next to him - like Darius Morris, Charlie Jenkins, Iman Shumpert, Josh Selby. Something like that.

And that's not just from looking at the Mavs - a point guard to run the offense and a defensive big were clearly the most glaring holes in the lineup against Boston.

The thing is, they left themselves in a position to have a franchise player AND add all the necessary role players. We have few draft picks, little cap space, and maybe half of an 8 man rotation.

the Mavs have been over the cap for the past 8 years or more. i wonder how they were able to build a team, despite being consistently over the cap?

they had 8 years to finally do it. And a massive amount of luck picking up Tyson Chandler.

they were in the finals in 2006, had the best record in the league in 2007 and have been pretty competitive every year for the last 8 or 9 years. i wouldn't mind having the decade they just had.