if phil jackson coached the cavs last year, are they a playoff team? no.

but good players don't always win. jerry sloan coached two hall of famers for over a decade and never won. barkley never won. ewing never won.

jackson has won ELEVEN championships. yeah, he had good players. but guess what, before jackson got to chicago, they still had MJ and pippen, and they hadn't won. before jackson got to LA, they had shaq and kobe, and they hadn't won.

if you win it all 11 times, you are a good coach -- i don't care if you are coaching the dream team!

this is all irrelevant though -- MDA has a year left on his contract and we're gonna see what he can do. he's going to have two very good players in the primes of their career, and i am going to assume that he'll have a pretty competent 8-9 man rotation. he is an offensive genius, let's see how unstoppable the offense is with two of the best scorers in the league (arguably the best all-around scorer and the best post scorer, but i digress)...before we talk about phil we still have MDA, for better or worse. if MDA takes us to a conference finals next year, i highly doubt the knicks are gonna make a godfather offer to lure jackson or rivers or whoever out of retirement.

the 2011-12 season is the season of "Is MDA a viable coaching candidate for the NYK" -- talk about jackson is WAY premature.

but to answer the question -- the guy can coach. plenty of good players have never won because of circumstance (tough opponents, injuries, bad coaching). jackson has over a decade of championship rings. please. its not even a debate.

nixluva wrote:Teams like the Stockton/Malone tandem went up against the freakin Jordan Bulls!!! Sloan surely was good enough to win a title, but Stockton/Malone ain't Jordan/Pippen!!! I mean come on people.
Dude had some sick combos that included the best wings or the best wing/center in the league!!! Kobe/Shaq in their prime and Jordan/Pippen in their prime are all time great combos. You can't find a better tandem in the league when they played.

People talk about in game coaching and really have any of you watched Phil? He doesn't really do or say anything for LONG stretches of time during games. When the Lakers were getting beat down he never said a word. He just sat there with a smug look on his face. How do you think that would go over in NY if the team isn't winning big?

You don't question greatness. If he sat there with a smug look on his face then that was a great coaching move. Calling a time out to let his players reflect on what is going on is a good move. Not saying anything says more words sometime than say something.

A coach with 11 rings as a coach.

That means he got the most of his players.

Sloan don't got any bling. Nor Karl, Nor Adelman.

Only Larry and Doc Rivers beat him in a finals.

Doc did a good job with that team that year. That great "Big Three" has only won once. I think they should have had one more given the greatness on that roster. Doc is a good coach, not great.

Larry's Detroit team took them a part with no superstars. The next year losing in finals was telling as larry was sick and over basically was cooked. LIke Phil this year, he tried but the team nor him had it in them.

Regarding him not yelling and screaming? Be real, the dude has 11 rings. A great team gets coached in practice and in preparation. 11 rings, 13 trips to finals in 20 years I think he knows how to prepare a team.

Nix, name three coaches better than phil and why you think so?

Nalod wrote:
A good coach we all agree gets the best out of his players.

A coach with 11 rings as a coach.

That means he got the most of his players.

Sloan don't got any bling. Nor Karl, Nor Adelman.

Only Larry and Doc Rivers beat him in a finals.

Doc did a good job with that team that year. That great "Big Three" has only won once. I think they should have had one more given the greatness on that roster. Doc is a good coach, not great.

Larry's Detroit team took them a part with no superstars. The next year losing in finals was telling as larry was sick and over basically was cooked. LIke Phil this year, he tried but the team nor him had it in them.

Regarding him not yelling and screaming? Be real, the dude has 11 rings. A great team gets coached in practice and in preparation. 11 rings, 13 trips to finals in 20 years I think he knows how to prepare a team.

Nix, name three coaches better than phil and why you think so?

Riley cuz he pretty much reinvented himself and found ways to win with totally different teams. He basically built teams up from nothing to title contenders.
Sloan cuz he had such a long run of excellence with teams that weren't ever the best in terms of overall talent. His teams are always well disciplined machines of perfection.
Larry Brown cuz he had some of the least talented teams that went further than teams with much more starpower. No one got more out of mediocre role players.

IMO Jax was very fortunate and smart. When you have GREAT players like Jordan or Kobe they can make a coach look a lot smarter cuz they all by themselves make the great play, the smart decision or the supernatural physical play that no one else can make cuz they are supremely talented. When those players have the ball they can do things that other players simply can't do or stop. They can make the defensive plays that other can't. They hit the shots that others can't or won't take. He's gone into all of his title seasons with that advantage over his competitor. Is it possible to have more talent than he's had over his career?

nixluva wrote:

Nalod wrote:
A good coach we all agree gets the best out of his players.

A coach with 11 rings as a coach.

That means he got the most of his players.

Sloan don't got any bling. Nor Karl, Nor Adelman.

Only Larry and Doc Rivers beat him in a finals.

Doc did a good job with that team that year. That great "Big Three" has only won once. I think they should have had one more given the greatness on that roster. Doc is a good coach, not great.

Larry's Detroit team took them a part with no superstars. The next year losing in finals was telling as larry was sick and over basically was cooked. LIke Phil this year, he tried but the team nor him had it in them.

Regarding him not yelling and screaming? Be real, the dude has 11 rings. A great team gets coached in practice and in preparation. 11 rings, 13 trips to finals in 20 years I think he knows how to prepare a team.

Nix, name three coaches better than phil and why you think so?

Riley cuz he pretty much reinvented himself and found ways to win with totally different teams. He basically built teams up from nothing to title contenders.
Sloan cuz he had such a long run of excellence with teams that weren't ever the best in terms of overall talent. His teams are always well disciplined machines of perfection.
Larry Brown cuz he had some of the least talented teams that went further than teams with much more starpower. No one got more out of mediocre role players.

IMO Jax was very fortunate and smart. When you have GREAT players like Jordan or Kobe they can make a coach look a lot smarter cuz they all by themselves make the great play, the smart decision or the supernatural physical play that no one else can make cuz they are supremely talented. When those players have the ball they can do things that other players simply can't do or stop. They can make the defensive plays that other can't. They hit the shots that others can't or won't take. He's gone into all of his title seasons with that advantage over his competitor. Is it possible to have more talent than he's had over his career?

I would hands down say Showtime lakers were better than any team Jax had.

Riles did a very good job in NY. No jewlery to show for it.

JVG ate his lunch in Miami with highly talented team that fried up come playoff time. He beat JVG once in Playoffs when Brown body slammed Charlie Ward.

Riles winning in Miami was a good run mid season after taking over for Stan Van Gundy. I'll give him credit on that won, but shaq and unstopple DWade is the same thing you say about Phil Jax having good players.

Brown is a top ten coach for sure. Great job in Detroit.

Elevan. Your not graasping the enormity of that.

Riles Showtime was there for him. They had one a championship with Paul Westhead with that team and lost in conf. finals the year before Riles took over.

So he took a championship team already built. He won 4 rings. Worthy, Jabbar and Magic!

He took over Stan van gundy's team that season and road it to the finals. His fith ring.

Phil Jax created his teams.

Phil has SIX MORE THAN RILES.

PHIL has TEN MORE THAN LARRY.

Phil has ELEVEN MORE THEN SLOAN.

IM not saying any of these guys are not great coaches. Maybe they are better and had less to work with in some years and bad luck in others.

But ELEVEN is a pretty big number. I thought you'd come back with Auerbach at least.

holfresh wrote:

Nalod wrote:
What was jordan before he had Phil as coach?

Chicken or the Egg?

Great tandems win. Stockton and Malone?

Name one thing Kobe and MJ have in common?

Same coach.

How many rings does it take to convince people? ELEVEN?

What if Clyde drexler was coached by Phil? OR Dominique Wilkens? Or DR. J?

Might have they gone up to the next level?

Even if nothing else both MJ and Kobe both respected him enough to play for is enough to warrant the cred.

HOw many players can actually put up with a guy year after year?

Mike left and Phil still won 55 games with out him. They damn near beat us in the playoffs that year. Pippen melted under the pressure.

Are you really going there...How many books has been written about the Bulls where authors would say Jordan told Phil who to substitute for whom while he was playing...

Right and does anyone believe that Jax had anything to do with the greatness of Jordan? When he was on the court he was basically doing what he does and would do no matter who the coach was. That's why having superstars matters. The coach is really working to improve the rest of the players. He doesn't need to do much with his best players. At least if he does its small things to get them refocused or point out a way to attack the other team.

Phil is a great coach, i'm just saying that he has more rings cuz he's had more great teams than other coaches. Jordan/Pippen, Kobe/Shaq, Kobe/Gasol/Odom is a hell of a list. He arguably has always had top 5 talent in his starting lineups. How can any coach have done better than having Jordan, Pippen, Kobe or Shaq as their Lead players?

Nalod wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Nalod wrote:
A good coach we all agree gets the best out of his players.

A coach with 11 rings as a coach.

That means he got the most of his players.

Sloan don't got any bling. Nor Karl, Nor Adelman.

Only Larry and Doc Rivers beat him in a finals.

Doc did a good job with that team that year. That great "Big Three" has only won once. I think they should have had one more given the greatness on that roster. Doc is a good coach, not great.

Larry's Detroit team took them a part with no superstars. The next year losing in finals was telling as larry was sick and over basically was cooked. LIke Phil this year, he tried but the team nor him had it in them.

Regarding him not yelling and screaming? Be real, the dude has 11 rings. A great team gets coached in practice and in preparation. 11 rings, 13 trips to finals in 20 years I think he knows how to prepare a team.

Nix, name three coaches better than phil and why you think so?

Riley cuz he pretty much reinvented himself and found ways to win with totally different teams. He basically built teams up from nothing to title contenders.
Sloan cuz he had such a long run of excellence with teams that weren't ever the best in terms of overall talent. His teams are always well disciplined machines of perfection.
Larry Brown cuz he had some of the least talented teams that went further than teams with much more starpower. No one got more out of mediocre role players.

IMO Jax was very fortunate and smart. When you have GREAT players like Jordan or Kobe they can make a coach look a lot smarter cuz they all by themselves make the great play, the smart decision or the supernatural physical play that no one else can make cuz they are supremely talented. When those players have the ball they can do things that other players simply can't do or stop. They can make the defensive plays that other can't. They hit the shots that others can't or won't take. He's gone into all of his title seasons with that advantage over his competitor. Is it possible to have more talent than he's had over his career?

I would hands down say Showtime lakers were better than any team Jax had.

Riles did a very good job in NY. No jewlery to show for it.

JVG ate his lunch in Miami with highly talented team that fried up come playoff time. He beat JVG once in Playoffs when Brown body slammed Charlie Ward.

Riles winning in Miami was a good run mid season after taking over for Stan Van Gundy. I'll give him credit on that won, but shaq and unstopple DWade is the same thing you say about Phil Jax having good players.

Brown is a top ten coach for sure. Great job in Detroit.

Elevan. Your not graasping the enormity of that.

Riles Showtime was there for him. They had one a championship with Paul Westhead with that team and lost in conf. finals the year before Riles took over.

So he took a championship team already built. He won 4 rings. Worthy, Jabbar and Magic!

He took over Stan van gundy's team that season and road it to the finals. His fith ring.

Phil Jax created his teams.

Phil has SIX MORE THAN RILES.

PHIL has TEN MORE THAN LARRY.

Phil has ELEVEN MORE THEN SLOAN.

IM not saying any of these guys are not great coaches. Maybe they are better and had less to work with in some years and bad luck in others.

But ELEVEN is a pretty big number. I thought you'd come back with Auerbach at least.

Auerbach's been quoted as knowing it's the players that made him look great, not the other way around.
Any one of you could have been on the bench in shatty diapers and watched Russell win all those rings.
Players make coaches great. Can a bad coach cause good players to become losers? Would IT have been able to keep Jordan/Pippen or Kobe/Shaq from winning rings? Why didn't Kobe/Shaq stay together and win 6 in a row? At the highest levels, it's always a players' league.

jrodmc wrote:Auerbach's been quoted as knowing it's the players that made him look great, not the other way around.
Any one of you could have been on the bench in shatty diapers and watched Russell win all those rings.
Players make coaches great. Can a bad coach cause good players to become losers? Would IT have been able to keep Jordan/Pippen or Kobe/Shaq from winning rings? Why didn't Kobe/Shaq stay together and win 6 in a row? At the highest levels, it's always a players' league.

I don't think he has the energy or will to work as hard as he'd have to in order to make this team a champion. It would take the best coaching job of his career. The only way I see him coming here is if we added Howard or CP3.

BigSm00th wrote:from my friend, a big phil jackson fan:

And, he is known for his triangle offense, and being maybe the only coach capable of teaching it to NBA players – a triangle of course has three sides. In Zen Buddhism (and Christianity) three is representative of guidance.

One thing that is interesting about the triangle offense is that he teaches it to each player a different way, in terms that are intuitive to the player, which also relates to Buddhism (ie the idea of unlearning). The idea is to build a structure in order to provide the freedom and context for improvisation to have meaning, like the format of a koan. Many people believe that the triangle is the only offense that can both limit the tendency of a dominant player (like Kobe, or Michael Jordan) to control the ball and attract the attention of the defense, while providing the perspective and opportunities necessary to analyze and exploit the opponent’s defensive tactics. It’s the idea that by limiting options you create unlimited possibility.

It's certainly a great system, however, unless you have a Kobe or MJ in it it's not gonna be that effective. Also you have to have a big or post up that can pass or it breaks down.
His Lakers were 100% healthy. Perhaps Phil was the one who was tired. He couldn't seem to get his team out of its funk to end the season and it finally caught up with them in the playoffs. This wouldn't go down as one of his best coaching jobs.