Paladin55 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:D williams was probably the better fit, but Melo is the better player regardless of what anyone says and adding Billups to the mix makes it a no-brainer. Billups may not be a great player here for the future, but he is an asset no matter how we use him. If you want to win a championship, Melo is a better fit than Williams. On top of all of this, i highly doubt this rumor has any truth to it.

The problem for you is that you just don't compare Anthony/Billups to D. Williams- it would be Anthony/Billups compared to D. Williams + Gallo, Chandler and Mosguv (who would still be on the team),and the subtraction of Fields. If you want to chop off Billups and Chandler next year for cap reasons- fine- then you're comparing Anthony to Williams, Gallo and Mosguv (while also taking into consideration the loss of Fields). The Knicks would have been better set for the future if they had made the Utah trade, IMO, and Amare would have had the perfect partner at PG.

what is that based on?

I think the assumption is that Utah wanted the failed offer for Melo for Williams, as it would have been a negotiated and competitive offer for an All Star

knicks1248 wrote:

TheGame wrote:Unless Utah just did not like our package, I would have to think that they talked to us about Deron. I mean NJ signed him the next day. YOu don't pull a trade like together in a day, so it is likely Utah was shopping him around. If that is the case, I think we should have gotten Williams, especially if it meant we could keep Timmy M.

they wanted fields ray curry's contract..1stpck

Source? I can't believe that deal was on the table and NY turned it down. There's no way that's true.

SupremeCommander wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:D williams was probably the better fit, but Melo is the better player regardless of what anyone says and adding Billups to the mix makes it a no-brainer. Billups may not be a great player here for the future, but he is an asset no matter how we use him. If you want to win a championship, Melo is a better fit than Williams. On top of all of this, i highly doubt this rumor has any truth to it.

The problem for you is that you just don't compare Anthony/Billups to D. Williams- it would be Anthony/Billups compared to D. Williams + Gallo, Chandler and Mosguv (who would still be on the team),and the subtraction of Fields. If you want to chop off Billups and Chandler next year for cap reasons- fine- then you're comparing Anthony to Williams, Gallo and Mosguv (while also taking into consideration the loss of Fields). The Knicks would have been better set for the future if they had made the Utah trade, IMO, and Amare would have had the perfect partner at PG.

what is that based on?

I think the assumption is that Utah wanted the failed offer for Melo for Williams, as it would have been a negotiated and competitive offer for an All Star

Somebody above indicated that it was Felton, Fields, Curry and a #1.

(they wanted fields ray curry's contract..1stpck)

Obviously if it was the same deal my comments would make no sense.

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:D williams was probably the better fit, but Melo is the better player regardless of what anyone says and adding Billups to the mix makes it a no-brainer. Billups may not be a great player here for the future, but he is an asset no matter how we use him. If you want to win a championship, Melo is a better fit than Williams. On top of all of this, i highly doubt this rumor has any truth to it.

how do you qualify as Melo being better than DWilliams?
how is Billups an asset?
how is melo a better fit to win a championship than Williams?

Billups is a large expiring contract. That is an asset.

When you think about teams competing for championships, what do you see more? Big time scoring and finishing wing, or star PG? Historically speaking, you are more likely to compete for championships with the Melo-type than a top PG. That could be proven wrong in the near-future, but until then, i will go with that. Star-power at the PG position is very overrated in the NBA, it is just about finding the right PG, you don't need a Paul or Williams to win.

Paladin55 wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:D williams was probably the better fit, but Melo is the better player regardless of what anyone says and adding Billups to the mix makes it a no-brainer. Billups may not be a great player here for the future, but he is an asset no matter how we use him. If you want to win a championship, Melo is a better fit than Williams. On top of all of this, i highly doubt this rumor has any truth to it.

how do you qualify as Melo being better than DWilliams?
how is Billups an asset?
how is melo a better fit to win a championship than Williams?

He's obviously seen a scientific study about the issue or perhaps played it out on some video game.

Of course it might just be some form of denial.

Here is my study:

You name how many teams have won championships or even competed for championships with their top player being a PG in the last 20 years, and i will do the same listing off top scoring wings who have lead their teams to championships. If you have a top wing and top big man in the league, you are heading in the right direction. It is proven that having a great PG is not necessary to winning a championship, and in fact the likelihood of winning titles with your PG leading the way is slim to none.

Marv wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

TheGame wrote:Unless Utah just did not like our package, I would have to think that they talked to us about Deron. I mean NJ signed him the next day. YOu don't pull a trade like together in a day, so it is likely Utah was shopping him around. If that is the case, I think we should have gotten Williams, especially if it meant we could keep Timmy M.

they wanted fields ray curry's contract..1stpck

done.

Crap, that would have been a MUCH better trade for us. I like Melo, but DW fits our system and would have enabled us to retain BOTH Chandler and Gallo, not to mention our Russian. DW would be an ideal complement to Stat. If the story is true, I have no idea why Walsh did the trade for Melo other than to speculate that he had no choice (i.e., Jimmy The Tard put the hammer down).

Moonangie wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:D williams was probably the better fit, but Melo is the better player regardless of what anyone says and adding Billups to the mix makes it a no-brainer. Billups may not be a great player here for the future, but he is an asset no matter how we use him. If you want to win a championship, Melo is a better fit than Williams. On top of all of this, i highly doubt this rumor has any truth to it.

how do you qualify as Melo being better than DWilliams?
how is Billups an asset?
how is melo a better fit to win a championship than Williams?

Billups is a large expiring contract. That is an asset.

When you think about teams competing for championships, what do you see more? Big time scoring and finishing wing, or star PG? Historically speaking, you are more likely to compete for championships with the Melo-type than a top PG. That could be proven wrong in the near-future, but until then, i will go with that. Star-power at the PG position is very overrated in the NBA, it is just about finding the right PG, you don't need a Paul or Williams to win.

Gallo is nearly the wing player that Melo is... AND we would have a superstar PG feeding him the rock.

TOTALLY disagree. gallo is a 16/4-5 player who has yet to show that he can be anything but a 3rd or 4th option.

Knixkik wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:

martin wrote:

Knixkik wrote:D williams was probably the better fit, but Melo is the better player regardless of what anyone says and adding Billups to the mix makes it a no-brainer. Billups may not be a great player here for the future, but he is an asset no matter how we use him. If you want to win a championship, Melo is a better fit than Williams. On top of all of this, i highly doubt this rumor has any truth to it.

how do you qualify as Melo being better than DWilliams?
how is Billups an asset?
how is melo a better fit to win a championship than Williams?

He's obviously seen a scientific study about the issue or perhaps played it out on some video game.

Of course it might just be some form of denial.

Here is my study:

You name how many teams have won championships or even competed for championships with their top player being a PG in the last 20 years, and i will do the same listing off top scoring wings who have lead their teams to championships. If you have a top wing and top big man in the league, you are heading in the right direction. It is proven that having a great PG is not necessary to winning a championship, and in fact the likelihood of winning titles with your PG leading the way is slim to none.

J. Kidd is the best PG to appear in the finals in the last 20 years. He went twice, he was their best player and they didn't win and it wasn't close either time. They were swept by the Lakers, and won 2 games against the spurs.

PG is usually the deepest position in the league because there are always way more people in the world who are 6'3" then there are who are 6'6"+.

Even now, we can draft a good pg no matter where we pick. We could get a good pg in the 2nd round. A center however? Thats like finding gold, only long term projects are available.

martin wrote:within the last 10 years Chauncey and Tony Park have won Finals MVP.

Yes, and they were not the best players on their teams. The point was about winning when your PG is the best player on the team.

And those 2 Finals MVPs were playing against Derek Fisher and either Sasha Pavlovic or Larry Hughes respectively.