nixluva wrote:

Killa4luv wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:He's actually done a poor job running the offense...He takes really bad shots all the time...I can't believe this is the leader everyone has been raving about...

I never really thought about it, but in Detroit he basically just had to stay at the top and wait for Rip to come around on the curl or feed Rasheed in the post. It was probably one of the easiest offenses to run as a PG. This offense is like rocket science compared to that. If you put a Deron, CP3 or any really smart PG in this offense it goes to another level. Trust me when I say that we haven't really seen a fraction of the actual offense since Mike has been here. These PG's aren't smart enough to actually absorb and execute all of it. It's like having Peyton Manning running your offense verses a guy that can't read defenses. The whole thing just comes to a grinding halt. However if you have a smart QB you get to see one of the most high powered and efficient offenses possible. I'm not sure if CB can do that. It's not looking good right now, but he hasn't had a fair shot to learn this stuff. The part that bothers me the most is that CB hasn't looked like he even wants to try running PnR.

It may be in our best interests to try and run the offense thru Melo a bit more. He's actually been surprisingly good at it. I think he's finding it fun to do as well, which may have shocked him, but when he executes a pass that leads to a score you can see how happy he is. IMO he's already started to grow as a player since coming here. This has been the 1st time since coming into the league that he's been challenged to do more out of necessity.

I dont buy that the offense is that complicated nor that CB lacks the smarts to grasp it. He's sure grasped the SSOL aspect of it, hoisting up 3's quicker than Jamal Crawford. ANd he's hitting for a poor percentage. He's shooting way worse than he was before the injury. If he were making more of his 3's, we'd have been winning more games.

He was making 3's at 44% this season with Denver.

He's at 31% now.

This is the difference between us winning and losing. Even without the PnR.

If you don't believe the offense is hard to master then you haven't been paying attention. Every PG we've had has been more of a Combo guard or just wasn't that good to begin with and all of them had problems running the full offense. We never ran it with Duhon and we had to dumb it down with every other PG we've had. None of us has seen the full offense since Mike has been here. I have the SSOL playbook and it's unreal how much is in there and how little of it we ever see the team use.

Also CB said that this was the most trouble he ever had learning an offense. It's like I said. You want to run what Peyton Manning does, then you have to have a smart QB like Peyton to run it. You can't just put any QB in there. There are QB's that get by on grit and raw talent and then there are guys who see the game like it's a Video Game. The PG you need doesn't have to have the athletic ability of Rose or be super fast, but they have to be smart and with great court vision. That's why there is so much talk about a kid like CP3. He'd be perfect here. He's a natural passer and sees the floor on a high level. There has to be a kid coming out of college who has the pure passing skills and enough athletic ability that would do well in this system.

I would say Shelvin Mack might be the answer, but he's a Toney Douglas type of "point"--but this is getting ridiculous. If you can't find a way to make talented point guards work in this "system" than something is wrong and it has nothing to do with the talent on hand. This team needs SIZE and grit and toughness. Not Jared effing Jeffries anchoring the middle. Give me Kenneth Faried or Chris Singleton or Jordan Williams or Matt Howard. Not an effing guard! Draft SIZE!!!

“They added an isolation specialist in Carmelo that really neutralizes Amar’e, and when Amar’e does get touches, it turns him into an isolation player, too,” said an Eastern Conference scout who has seen the Knicks play several games since the trade. “When you have isolation players and not flow players, the defense gets set easier. When one of them makes a great one-on-one move, the defense is set and they know where you want to go, and then the help comes. You take more difficult shots with less time on the shot clock. They have to win games off sheer talent, and that’s tough.”

Exactly why the ball needs to go through Landry Fields with more regularity. At least Fields LOOKS for the other players on his team. Chauncey is more a shooter than facilitator.

It's goes like this:

Albert: "Anthony advances the ball past the time line, to the right corner of the arc... over to Fields, flashing at the top of the key... who passes to Billups left side, back ANTHONY (coming off the pick by Turiaf) who spots a cutting STOUDEMIRE just inside the free throw line for the floating jumper...YES!!

misterearl wrote:Get In The Flow

“They added an isolation specialist in Carmelo that really neutralizes Amar’e, and when Amar’e does get touches, it turns him into an isolation player, too,” said an Eastern Conference scout who has seen the Knicks play several games since the trade. “When you have isolation players and not flow players, the defense gets set easier. When one of them makes a great one-on-one move, the defense is set and they know where you want to go, and then the help comes. You take more difficult shots with less time on the shot clock. They have to win games off sheer talent, and that’s tough.”

Exactly why the ball needs to go through Landry Fields with more regularity. At least Fields LOOKS for the other players on his team. Chauncey is more a shooter than facilitator.

It's goes like this:

Albert: "Anthony advances the ball past the time line, to the right corner of the arc... over to Fields, flashing at the top of the key... who passes to Billups left side, back ANTHONY (coming off the pick by Turiaf) who spots a cutting STOUDEMIRE just inside the free throw line for the floating jumper...YES!!

Luckily we watch all the games and have a better beat on things than the scouts...Carmelo isolation plays is not what neutralized Amare at all...It's been discussed many times in this forum...It has everything to do with Billups not being able to run the coaches offense, and the pick and roll, adequately...And Please, Field is a nice piece to have and he plays hard but I'll be more worried about getting the ball to Amare in the PnR than Fields getting touches...

nixluva wrote:

Killa4luv wrote:

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:He's actually done a poor job running the offense...He takes really bad shots all the time...I can't believe this is the leader everyone has been raving about...

I never really thought about it, but in Detroit he basically just had to stay at the top and wait for Rip to come around on the curl or feed Rasheed in the post. It was probably one of the easiest offenses to run as a PG. This offense is like rocket science compared to that. If you put a Deron, CP3 or any really smart PG in this offense it goes to another level. Trust me when I say that we haven't really seen a fraction of the actual offense since Mike has been here. These PG's aren't smart enough to actually absorb and execute all of it. It's like having Peyton Manning running your offense verses a guy that can't read defenses. The whole thing just comes to a grinding halt. However if you have a smart QB you get to see one of the most high powered and efficient offenses possible. I'm not sure if CB can do that. It's not looking good right now, but he hasn't had a fair shot to learn this stuff. The part that bothers me the most is that CB hasn't looked like he even wants to try running PnR.

It may be in our best interests to try and run the offense thru Melo a bit more. He's actually been surprisingly good at it. I think he's finding it fun to do as well, which may have shocked him, but when he executes a pass that leads to a score you can see how happy he is. IMO he's already started to grow as a player since coming here. This has been the 1st time since coming into the league that he's been challenged to do more out of necessity.

I dont buy that the offense is that complicated nor that CB lacks the smarts to grasp it. He's sure grasped the SSOL aspect of it, hoisting up 3's quicker than Jamal Crawford. ANd he's hitting for a poor percentage. He's shooting way worse than he was before the injury. If he were making more of his 3's, we'd have been winning more games.

He was making 3's at 44% this season with Denver.

He's at 31% now.

This is the difference between us winning and losing. Even without the PnR.

If you don't believe the offense is hard to master then you haven't been paying attention. Every PG we've had has been more of a Combo guard or just wasn't that good to begin with and all of them had problems running the full offense. We never ran it with Duhon and we had to dumb it down with every other PG we've had. None of us has seen the full offense since Mike has been here. I have the SSOL playbook and it's unreal how much is in there and how little of it we ever see the team use.

Also CB said that this was the most trouble he ever had learning an offense. It's like I said. You want to run what Peyton Manning does, then you have to have a smart QB like Peyton to run it. You can't just put any QB in there. There are QB's that get by on grit and raw talent and then there are guys who see the game like it's a Video Game. The PG you need doesn't have to have the athletic ability of Rose or be super fast, but they have to be smart and with great court vision. That's why there is so much talk about a kid like CP3. He'd be perfect here. He's a natural passer and sees the floor on a high level. There has to be a kid coming out of college who has the pure passing skills and enough athletic ability that would do well in this system.

misterearl wrote:Marv - you are a wise man.

The hidden beauty of Carmelo is his size and ball handling. At 6'9, he also has excellent court awareness. Unfortunately, if Melo is primarily deployed with his back to the basket, you only reduce his field of vision. That does not make sense. If D'Antoni is committed to getting more shots at the basket he would be wise to trust Carmelo with the rock in the backcourt. Let him play more FACING the basket and not simply posting up, looking to feature his solo act.

You wanna post up someone? Post up Landry Fields once in a while. He is an excellent passer, has decent footwork and might enjoy turning in the lane for his mid-range shot.

EVERYBODY hits the boards.

tj23 wrote:

BlueSeats wrote:I don't get why Billups isn't running P&R with Melo. Stat too, though with the state of his knees he may not be rolling all that much.

But hell, we supposedly have a championship caliber PG, why should we reinvent the wheel and have Melo playing point? Set him up and let him score.

Billups is a scoring point, he isn't capable of running the pick and roll and he's proven that.

PnR works best with scoring PGs. It's the dual threat that makes it so beguiling to the defense.