1) Bullspit, they just played tough defense, a brand of defense that has since been abolished as acceptable by Stern and his crew.
2) The Knicks were NEVER as aggressive or "dirty" as the Piston, especially Lambeer.
3) The Pacers were more dirty (although just not as good) than the Knicks back in the day. The Davis's and Smits were thugs and Reggie was a little bitch.

People complaining about "aggressive" play today have short memories. These guys get bumped a bruised all of the time, it's part of the job. If the ref didn't see it or didn't call it, it doesn't matter.

orangeblobman wrote:

grillco wrote:And to the point about the Riley-JVG era Knicks being "dirty":

1) Bullspit, they just played tough defense, a brand of defense that has since been abolished as acceptable by Stern and his crew.
2) The Knicks were NEVER as aggressive or "dirty" as the Piston, especially Lambeer.
3) The Pacers were more dirty (although just not as good) than the Knicks back in the day. The Davis's and Smits were thugs and Reggie was a little bitch.

People complaining about "aggressive" play today have short memories. These guys get bumped a bruised all of the time, it's part of the job. If the ref didn't see it or didn't call it, it doesn't matter.

I don't know. Aggressive defense can be considered dirty defense. A female correctional officer once said aloud, not to me, but I think one of the inmates in the max cells, because as you walk back from visit you have to pass through the max corridor, she said that there is a difference between aggressive and assertive. You can play assertive defense, get the stops, but when you step into aggressive, you're talking about spitting in the face of the game.

When you play dirty, you spit in Naismith's face.

Basketball is fluid, it's graceful, and that doesn't mean it's not physical, but it's not meant to be ruffian style.

that's why they have refs. they ain't blowing the whistle - it's all good.

misterearl wrote:

orangeblobman wrote:

grillco wrote:And to the point about the Riley-JVG era Knicks being "dirty":

1) Bullspit, they just played tough defense, a brand of defense that has since been abolished as acceptable by Stern and his crew.
2) The Knicks were NEVER as aggressive or "dirty" as the Piston, especially Lambeer.
3) The Pacers were more dirty (although just not as good) than the Knicks back in the day. The Davis's and Smits were thugs and Reggie was a little bitch.

People complaining about "aggressive" play today have short memories. These guys get bumped a bruised all of the time, it's part of the job. If the ref didn't see it or didn't call it, it doesn't matter.

I don't know. Aggressive defense can be considered dirty defense. A female correctional officer once said aloud, not to me, but I think one of the inmates in the max cells, because as you walk back from visit you have to pass through the max corridor, she said that there is a difference between aggressive and assertive. You can play assertive defense, get the stops, but when you step into aggressive, you're talking about spitting in the face of the game.

When you play dirty, you spit in Naismith's face.

Basketball is fluid, it's graceful, and that doesn't mean it's not physical, but it's not meant to be ruffian style.

Guarantee: All Dialogue NOT Reported Verbatim

Overheard at West 4th Street Courts
Hoopster number one: "You are such a ruffian!"
Hoopster number two: "Don't go there girlfriend, I have another graceful finger roll waiting for you!"

Moral of The Story: When you play graceful you get bumped off the main court on the playground.

Ballet tickets anyone?

more like get bumped from the 3rd court to the 4th

orangeblobman wrote:

grillco wrote:And to the point about the Riley-JVG era Knicks being "dirty":

1) Bullspit, they just played tough defense, a brand of defense that has since been abolished as acceptable by Stern and his crew.
2) The Knicks were NEVER as aggressive or "dirty" as the Piston, especially Lambeer.
3) The Pacers were more dirty (although just not as good) than the Knicks back in the day. The Davis's and Smits were thugs and Reggie was a little bitch.

People complaining about "aggressive" play today have short memories. These guys get bumped a bruised all of the time, it's part of the job. If the ref didn't see it or didn't call it, it doesn't matter.

I don't know. Aggressive defense can be considered dirty defense. A female correctional officer once said aloud, not to me, but I think one of the inmates in the max cells, because as you walk back from visit you have to pass through the max corridor, she said that there is a difference between aggressive and assertive. You can play assertive defense, get the stops, but when you step into aggressive, you're talking about spitting in the face of the game.

When you play dirty, you spit in Naismith's face.

Basketball is fluid, it's graceful, and that doesn't mean it's not physical, but it's not meant to be ruffian style.

Naismith is dead, the game has gone through several iterations and right now it's all about whining about strong defense and too many technicals called and punishment too severe for said technicals. The refs need to lighten up and Stern needs to stop effin' with this crap. So what Dwight gets pissed when he feels he was fouled and the refs missed? Who cares if Cuban calls out the officiating? The refs can handle it and the whole technical thing allows them to influence a game far too much.

Again, Detroit was dirty and neither Melo nor even KG come close to what those guys did and the league wouldn't allow it at this point. Professional sports are about the best of the best going head-to-head and trying to win at all costs, and that's not always pretty. Melo isn't trying to hurt anyone, but he is asserting his presence. I'll take that seven days a week and twice on Sunday from any player on any team that I like. And yes, I will and do reserve the right bitch about it from other teams, but that's what fans do. My team has my blessings, the opposition can suck it.

Marv wrote:

misterearl wrote:

orangeblobman wrote:

grillco wrote:And to the point about the Riley-JVG era Knicks being "dirty":

1) Bullspit, they just played tough defense, a brand of defense that has since been abolished as acceptable by Stern and his crew.
2) The Knicks were NEVER as aggressive or "dirty" as the Piston, especially Lambeer.
3) The Pacers were more dirty (although just not as good) than the Knicks back in the day. The Davis's and Smits were thugs and Reggie was a little bitch.

People complaining about "aggressive" play today have short memories. These guys get bumped a bruised all of the time, it's part of the job. If the ref didn't see it or didn't call it, it doesn't matter.

I don't know. Aggressive defense can be considered dirty defense. A female correctional officer once said aloud, not to me, but I think one of the inmates in the max cells, because as you walk back from visit you have to pass through the max corridor, she said that there is a difference between aggressive and assertive. You can play assertive defense, get the stops, but when you step into aggressive, you're talking about spitting in the face of the game.

When you play dirty, you spit in Naismith's face.

Basketball is fluid, it's graceful, and that doesn't mean it's not physical, but it's not meant to be ruffian style.

Guarantee: All Dialogue NOT Reported Verbatim

Overheard at West 4th Street Courts
Hoopster number one: "You are such a ruffian!"
Hoopster number two: "Don't go there girlfriend, I have another graceful finger roll waiting for you!"
Hoopster number three: "Fellas, please. I hate acrimony. Can't we settle this over daiquiris after the game?"
Moral of The Story: When you play graceful you get bumped off the main court on the playground.

Ballet tickets anyone?

Ginger tea spit take (thanks Marv)

Hoopster number one: "No he di'n' say daquiris... I am so parched and SO there diva!... check ball!"

metra wrote:

grillco wrote:And to the point about the Riley-JVG era Knicks being "dirty":

1) Bullspit, they just played tough defense, a brand of defense that has since been abolished as acceptable by Stern and his crew.
2) The Knicks were NEVER as aggressive or "dirty" as the Piston, especially Lambeer.
3) The Pacers were more dirty (although just not as good) than the Knicks back in the day. The Davis's and Smits were thugs and Reggie was a little bitch.

People complaining about "aggressive" play today have short memories. These guys get bumped a bruised all of the time, it's part of the job. If the ref didn't see it or didn't call it, it doesn't matter.

Listen everybody, grillco is right: we're confusing dirty and tough.

I'll illustrate with examples.

Rebounding
tough: Boxing out, fighting for position, even jumping over the dude
dirty: Pushing the guy out of the way, not going for the ball
(Melo does both)

Fights
normal: Punching a dude when he's looking, not being held back
dirty: Punching a dude when he's not looking and running away after

In general
normal: Not pushing people to the ground when they're getting up
dirty: Tripping

Let me know if the above doesn't make sense, I know it's tough to understand for you guys.

And, finally, for all you Melo-hater-haters, I'm PRO the Melo trade. I think we're better with him on the team. And I LOVE good defense, love the Knicks team that kept opposing teams to <100 every night, and I'd love it if we had some Thibodeau and some Oakley-like enforcers on the team right now.

I just don't know how to reconcile my appreciation of Melo's offensive prowess with my dislike of his general on-the-court ethics (that was for you isles).

Guys push for rebounds all the time, hence the term foul. Melo punched one guy and it was years ago and it was Mardy Collins. Melo should have punched Zeke for drafting that guy. Tripping - happened once so far as I know.

Melo is not a dirty player but has had a few dirty plays. A dirty play here and there doesn't mean the guy is a dirty player. The few instances don't define Melo as a player.