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Even happier we made the Melo trade after last nights game
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misterearl
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3/27/2011  3:26 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/27/2011  3:28 PM
Palladin - constant speculation and roster turnover is never a good thing. D'Antoni is now in charge of veterans and not yoots. His orders must be more measured and forceful with vets. Is D'Antoni too stubborn to adjust to his talent?

Rolling out the the ball racks and saying "go do what you do" is not a strategy.

once a knick always a knick
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TheGame
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3/27/2011  4:03 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/27/2011  4:03 PM
MSG3 wrote:Amar'e is playing incredibly soft. I love the guy but he's either doing it on purpose to try and save it for the playoffs or he's just completely spent. Carmelo has been about as good of a team player as you can be, save for the Detroit aftermath.

This has been the most upset I've been with the Knicks in a while due to expectations. But I agree that as hard as this is now, and as bad as it sucks to literally be the worst team in the league right now, we will be fine in the long run. If Carmelo could he'd carry us on his back to win some of these games, but he's trying to buy in to what coach wants.

D'Antoni is a big problem. I know there needs to be adjustment time, but it clear he has no idea what's going on right now. We are losing every game badly. He needs to sit Amare for a game. He needs to call timeouts. He needs to adjust when he sees that we constantly get lost on screens. He needs to draw up plays at the end of close games. He does none of this and is mind bogglingly stubborn. I hope he succeeds, but I suspect he won't. Knowing Dolan and this franchise we'll jump at the chance to get Phil Jackson in here. This (or any good coach), along with a Center and able PG will put us where we need to be.

Phil Jackson would be interesting. Since his system does not require a point guard and he actually does use a center, he probably would be the perfect coach for this team.

Trust the Process
markvmc
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3/27/2011  4:11 PM
Just wondering, Anubis, how many more losses like last night's will it take before you stop getting happier?
Uptown
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3/27/2011  4:45 PM
Paladin55 wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:
Paladin55 wrote:So maybe we should have traded Amare for Anthony one on one, and let Gallinari play at PF?


By the way, this thread smells of desperation, and an attempt to justify a trade that never should have happened which has gone bad.


Some of you are simply unable to admit that the trade may have been a mistake... pretty pathetic, actually.

We are a thin team. We knew this already. When Amare sat we looked like a totally different team. Why did you think he was getting MVP chants?

Lets not act like we would have been winning games with Gallo and Chandler if Amare was playing like he has been.

The major issues are we're getting nothing from Billups and Amare seems to be fading.

We had more to look forward to in the future if we had not folded when Dolan stepped in. The future is now at this time- Amare, Anthony, and Billups are never going to get better than they are at this moment, and if you let Billups go to clear away some cap space, you are left without a true PG, and you have no idea who is going to be out there to fill in. Basically this would mean keeping an over the hill Billups, or dumping him to look for a big man who can cover up the defensive deficiencies of Amare and Anthony, and a new PG. Basically, we are back to rebuilding and bringing a new group together for the 4th year in a row.

No way to run a franchise.

The future of the team we traded away was first round playoff fodder for the opposition. Nothing more, even with the addition of a Dalembert. The core of this team is much higher. Just need a system (coach?) change and a few more pieces.

AnubisADL
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3/27/2011  4:47 PM
markvmc wrote:Just wondering, Anubis, how many more losses like last night's will it take before you stop getting happier?

I dont care how many games we lose this season.

Im just using these games to evaluate the keepers on this team.

NY Knicks - Retirement home for players and GMs
misterearl
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3/27/2011  4:58 PM
A Few Easy Pieces

"Just need a system (coach?) change and a few more pieces."

A few implies more than two. Hitting on one rotation player an offseason is considered excellent. Hitting on two in one offseason is considered unusual.

Uptown - just one small detail, who are you appointing to manage the change?

once a knick always a knick
Juice
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3/27/2011  6:42 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/27/2011  6:56 PM
AnubisADL wrote:
Juice wrote:I disagree because think of how the players that got traded away would play 20gms after a deadline passes knowing they're going nowhere....


AnibusADL debunked

The same way they have been playing and that is ERRATIC.

Pre Trade talk and Walsh making that ridiculous claim after the San Antonio game he was going to pay Chandler..... the team was 20-14. Right after this Chandler fires his agent because he spoke reflecting Walsh's statement and Chandler's play went in the dumps. Keep in mind if true(which I don't buy it totally) both Chandler and Gallo had to endure injuries after that game(well Gallo one game prior to against Pacers). The only player playing somewhat iffy was Gallo but he was slowly showing progress. 19-14/20-14 is a far cry from 7-12. That's 33/34gms compared to 19.... we'll see how the team finishes off the season to make a more fair comparison.

Come Again?

Juice
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3/27/2011  6:46 PM
AnubisADL wrote:
Juice wrote:Also Melo's play here... what else does it prove other than he can score and be a very productive player....WITHOUT RAISING OR ELEVATING THE PLAY OF HIS TEAMMATES?

Melo's good for Melo. He hasn't necessarily been ultra selfish (at certain times he has) although I do see effort to fit in and run scheme. It's kind of like Douglas. Toney is good for himself

Melo doesn't make anyone better.... he makes himself good which will have an overall effect of slightly improved team stats

We need guys on this team who'll make everyone better

There was this prevailing idea players like Chandler/Gallo/Fields made Amar'e/Felton/Lee/Harrington. You could say more so Chandler when his play went south the whole team's play went south. Effective role players in this system allow Alphas room to go off.


I do believe Melo at this point needs more help off the bench from a coach who'll take advantage of his strengths to make his teammates better. It would require Melo becoming more of a post player and picking defenses apart at double teams and platooning point duties as a point forward. The problem is what do you do with Amar'e?


Maybe just maybe we're seeing that Amar'e and Melo aren't an ideal match

This team isnt a finished product. Melo and Amare havent had time to gel and Billups is playing his age.

Melo isnt Lebron James man. He makes guys better by giving them opportunities because he draws the defense. We have scrubs. Only guy I'd pay more than the minimum this summer is Shawne Williams because he seems like a ideal shooter off the bench.

Shawne Williams = Robert Horry for us.

Neither was the one prior to trade. You think even if Melo had gone to say the Nets or Chicago via trade that we were going to sit on our hands come Free Agency 2011-2012? Weren't you the one suggesting we go after Mayo pre trade or DeAndre Jordan?

Melo doesn't really draw defenses to him on a regular basis.... he's still predominantly a one-on-one player. There are times he draws double teams but Melo is trying to score /andor get a shot before the double comes. Out of PNR sets yeah he's shown he can make the right play but let's stop pretending every play he makes for teammates is because he was doubled or draws attention.

Juice
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3/27/2011  6:51 PM
misterearl wrote:Perhpas one of the most insightful posts of the week:

"I do believe Melo at this point needs more help off the bench from a coach who'll take advantage of his strengths to make his teammates better. It would require Melo becoming more of a post player and picking defenses apart at double teams and platooning point duties as a point forward. The problem is what do you do with Amar'e?"

Juice: If you put the ball in Carmelo Anthony Mason's hands at point forward, you open an opportunity for meshing his talents with the versatile Fields in the pick and roll. They need time together. Forget Anthony and Stoudemire meshing. Stoudemire needs to be a more wiling passer for that to work. He is not.

Stoudemire works from the left side of the floor in a halfcourt set. The problem is finding a 6'11 distraction with some offense that D'Antoni would trust to ease the consistent double teams that have mocked our not having a center. A backup four would be nice, just for insurance.

Solve the frontcourt riddle and you fix the Knicks.


ROTFLOL earl do you know my history of name making?

What I meant by what to do with Amar'e is if Melo's in the post or operating from a triple threat post pinch position you take away Amar'e's office. He'd have to adjust his game and become more like you said a facilitator he can find guys roaming baseline or cutting all day. He is 6'10" and can see over most defenders especially in a cross match. But can these guys re-invent their games at this stage in their careers and how much more time do you give 2 players making $20mio/yr for the next 4yrs?

Juice
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3/27/2011  6:55 PM
AnubisADL wrote:
markvmc wrote:Just wondering, Anubis, how many more losses like last night's will it take before you stop getting happier?

I dont care how many games we lose this season.

Im just using these games to evaluate the keepers on this team.

So this was the intention of making the trade? You need 30gms to evaluate potential keepers in Williams/Douglas/Walker/Mason/? What did the other 54gms prior to trade tell you about them since it was so easy to draw a conclusion on Gallo/Chandler/Moz/AR? Oh wait let me guess you're evaluating only Shelden and Carter because it's obvious previous history is written on Effries and Balkman.

CashMoney
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3/27/2011  7:07 PM
Paladin55 wrote:So maybe we should have traded Amare for Anthony one on one, and let Gallinari play at PF?


By the way, this thread smells of desperation, and an attempt to justify a trade that never should have happened which has gone bad.


Some of you are simply unable to admit that the trade may have been a mistake... pretty pathetic, actually.


May have been a mistsake is a far cry from the trade was a mistake. We won't know for at least 2 more seasons.

Blue & Orange 4 Life!
Bonn1997
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3/27/2011  8:35 PM
AnubisADL wrote:
markvmc wrote:Just wondering, Anubis, how many more losses like last night's will it take before you stop getting happier?

I dont care how many games we lose this season.

Im just using these games to evaluate the keepers on this team.


Are you going to start caring about wins next year?
Paladin55
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3/27/2011  9:17 PM
CashMoney wrote:
Paladin55 wrote:So maybe we should have traded Amare for Anthony one on one, and let Gallinari play at PF?


By the way, this thread smells of desperation, and an attempt to justify a trade that never should have happened which has gone bad.


Some of you are simply unable to admit that the trade may have been was a mistake... pretty pathetic, actually.


May have been a mistsake is a far cry from the trade was a mistake. We won't know for at least 2 more seasons.

No longer a far cry...but rather something for a Knicks' fan to cry over.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
tkf
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3/27/2011  11:46 PM
Juice wrote:Also Melo's play here... what else does it prove other than he can score and be a very productive player....WITHOUT RAISING OR ELEVATING THE PLAY OF HIS TEAMMATES?

Melo's good for Melo. He hasn't necessarily been ultra selfish (at certain times he has) although I do see effort to fit in and run scheme. It's kind of like Douglas. Toney is good for himself

Melo doesn't make anyone better.... he makes himself good which will have an overall effect of slightly improved team stats

We need guys on this team who'll make everyone better

There was this prevailing idea players like Chandler/Gallo/Fields made Amar'e/Felton/Lee/Harrington. You could say more so Chandler when his play went south the whole team's play went south. Effective role players in this system allow Alphas room to go off.


I do believe Melo at this point needs more help off the bench from a coach who'll take advantage of his strengths to make his teammates better. It would require Melo becoming more of a post player and picking defenses apart at double teams and platooning point duties as a point forward. The problem is what do you do with Amar'e?


Maybe just maybe we're seeing that Amar'e and Melo aren't an ideal match

good post..

but most don't want to hear that.. remember melo >>>>> gallo and chandler.....

go figure..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
knickstorrents
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3/28/2011  12:34 AM
Melo + Amare = Zach Randolph + Eddy Curry v2.0
Rose is not the answer.
CashMoney
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3/28/2011  7:54 AM
knickstorrents wrote:Melo + Amare = Zach Randolph + Eddy Curry v2.0

That's is the worst comparison I've seen on this board, congratulations.

Blue & Orange 4 Life!
fishmike
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3/28/2011  7:59 AM
CashMoney wrote:
knickstorrents wrote:Melo + Amare = Zach Randolph + Eddy Curry v2.0

That's is the worst comparison I've seen on this board, congratulations.

Eddy and Zach got off to a better start
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Even happier we made the Melo trade after last nights game

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