Caseloads wrote:we gave up our two second rounders from GS to denver.

thats what i thought too, but i read a couple of sources that said it was NY KNICKS 2nd rounders not GS 2nd rounders, anyone have any sources to make sure?

tj23 wrote:Douglas is hot right now. He still screws up every other pass and every other defensive play. He'll cool off and look like garbage again. If he could actually play pg and focus on just staying with his guy he would be a solid player. He has the capability to play great defense but he only does it maybe once every 10 games.

I am not sure I agree with the "great defense 1 for every 10 games" remark, but I do think that TD overplays defense too much and it results in unnecessary fouls and missed steal-attempts which turn to easy offensive opportunities for the other team. TD brings tremendous defensive energy and instincts, and he is getting better at limiting his mistakes, you can't ask for munch more from a second year guy.

Right now we all can see that TD has limited vision as a passing PG, and as a PG he runs the Knicks' sets decently (at best). IMHO it's hard to judge him cause it should be obvious to us all the he had a very bad shoulder (or 2) for most of the year - I do believe Toney initially hurt that should against a Shaq pick in the second game of the season and then again a week or 2 later.

How do you judge a player for whom one of his best weapons is limited? MDA has obviously been limited in his pick of guards who could come off the bench in a secondary role before the trade (TD, Mason, Rautins), but he did play TD solid minutes despite his flaws, and while TD received the most attention from an angry coach, you also never got the sense that MDA was unhappy with the effort, just the finer points of the execution.

Is Toney on a hot streak (probably) or is Toney finally healthier (probably some of this too)? I think some of us picked up on the fact that TD looked much healthier after the all-star break, and his number pan out that way: 50% shooting from the field and near 50% shooting from 3pointland, all in about 15 games.

Toney looked like crap at playing the PG during both his SL stints. He looked uncomfortable running the offense at the beginning of this year (lets also note how poorly Felton and Billups look too at the beginning of their stretches). TD looks something around average running the offense these days - missing a ton of wide open guys still, has a tendency to not turn the corner and explode to basket on PnR, makes some crazy passes, still tries to hit JJ in traffic, forgets the shotclock (although much less than last year). BUT, he plays D and we can now sense that he can perhaps bring it on the offensive end.

Let me bring up a few names of PGs who were drafted ahead of TD for comparison: #6 Johnny Flynn, #10 BJennings, #17 Jrue Holiday, #19 Jeff Teague. All of these guys are struggling for one reason or another, not a bad prospects as a group.

If TD continues to hold his own on the offensive side this year while maintaining his defensive effort and execution, I'll be happy with the player. The other PG skills could and should come with time and continuity of the Knicks as a team of players (this probably would be a problem for any PG). I was down on him earlier in the year with the caveat about injury; let's hope he has turned a corner.

d'A runs an offense based on plays. Some remarked TD was breaking off the play too early in the shot clock.
An article announced that Billups had told TD to stick with the play no matter what happens. CB will get his mind
right. Chauncey will be able to help TD achieve his greatest level of play. This could be a perfect storm

No one has mentioned that TD had 20 and 11 dimes last game. Off the bench. Double double. ten dimes 2 of the last 3 games?
Insane assist to turnover ratios Belief here is he has been playing through pain all year till the all-star break. He has shown steady improvement over the course of the season in both his grasp of the offense and his level of play.

He is only going to get better. This is a collection of factions not yet a team if they ever will be.

If they don't get on the same page soon it could get real ugly.

martin wrote:

Olbrannon wrote:No one has mentioned that TD had 20 and 11 dimes last game. Off the bench. Double double. ten dimes 2 of the last 3 games?

and let us emphasis that this was with Melo doing nothing offensively.

Should I reevaluate my opinion that he will never be the PG we want leading the Knicks?

Saw one play yesterday where he penetrated down the lane and dished off to Williams or Fields for a corner 3... would love to see more like that.

Olbrannon wrote:

martin wrote:

Olbrannon wrote:No one has mentioned that TD had 20 and 11 dimes last game. Off the bench. Double double. ten dimes 2 of the last 3 games?

and let us emphasis that this was with Melo doing nothing offensively.

Noted. This was not the case the first time he had ten dimes. Don't think he's ever had to deal with ego's at that level and pretty sure their was no malice. And he would have had 16 dimes at least if some of his passes were one of on time/crisper/better but then Melo was 2 of 8 and TD still went to him late.

i hate how he does that underhand, shuttle pass.

Olbrannon wrote:

martin wrote:

Olbrannon wrote:

martin wrote:

Olbrannon wrote:No one has mentioned that TD had 20 and 11 dimes last game. Off the bench. Double double. ten dimes 2 of the last 3 games?

and let us emphasis that this was with Melo doing nothing offensively.

Noted. This was not the case the first time he had ten dimes. Don't think he's ever had to deal with ego's at that level and pretty sure their was no malice. And he would have had 16 dimes at least if some of his passes were one of on time/crisper/better but then Melo was 2 of 8 and TD still went to him late.

i hate how he does that underhand, shuttle pass.

I don't see that being a problem though agree with Breen that sometimes "he telegraph's the entry pass"

I do, but it's not something I'd over-emphasized. The mechanics of doing the one-handed shuttle pass and a 2-handed push pass is all about the point of release: one is much lower than the other and, as such, the point at which the receiving player catches the ball is also more likely lower. This can be a problem for someone like Amare who doesn't bend or want to receive the ball around his knees.

martin wrote:

Olbrannon wrote:

martin wrote:

Olbrannon wrote:

martin wrote:

Olbrannon wrote:No one has mentioned that TD had 20 and 11 dimes last game. Off the bench. Double double. ten dimes 2 of the last 3 games?

and let us emphasis that this was with Melo doing nothing offensively.

Noted. This was not the case the first time he had ten dimes. Don't think he's ever had to deal with ego's at that level and pretty sure their was no malice. And he would have had 16 dimes at least if some of his passes were one of on time/crisper/better but then Melo was 2 of 8 and TD still went to him late.

i hate how he does that underhand, shuttle pass.

I don't see that being a problem though agree with Breen that sometimes "he telegraph's the entry pass"

I do, but it's not something I'd over-emphasized. The mechanics of doing the one-handed shuttle pass and a 2-handed push pass is all about the point of release: one is much lower than the other and, as such, the point at which the receiving player catches the ball is also more likely lower. This can be a problem for someone like Amare who doesn't bend or want to receive the ball around his knees.

valid. keeping the ball low leads to less turnovers too. I expect they will work on the entry pass some more together during the summer. Last summer and training camp expect Felton got the most work with Amar'e