mreinman wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I want to see a consistent effort from the players. I also want D'Antoni to show that he can make adjustments as they're needed (time outs and substitutions) in a playoff environment. Sometimes that isn't enough to win a series, that's ok as long as the team from the coaching staff to the players perform like they gave it their best shot. If they do then I don't care how far they go right now.

I don't believe anyone will argue that this team is complete or close to it, that doesn't mean they can't play hard and play smart. If D'Antoni doesn't get through to them or he gets out coached in the playoffs, then its time to go.

I agree with your expectation(s).

If we lose but show full throttle competitiveness that might be ok. But, what if we are hustling all over the place but we average 7-28 from 3? Do we blame our shooters or the flip a coin system?

Sometimes shots don't fall, happens to the best teams. Are they shooting 7-28 because they are jacking up shots from 3 point range and abandoning the drive? Forcing up bad shots with someone right in their face when a teammate is wide open?

It goes back to what I said about playing smart. In the end its on the coach to get them to play that way. If they tune him out, it might not be fair, but its on the coach.

GustavBahler wrote:

mreinman wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I want to see a consistent effort from the players. I also want D'Antoni to show that he can make adjustments as they're needed (time outs and substitutions) in a playoff environment. Sometimes that isn't enough to win a series, that's ok as long as the team from the coaching staff to the players perform like they gave it their best shot. If they do then I don't care how far they go right now.

I don't believe anyone will argue that this team is complete or close to it, that doesn't mean they can't play hard and play smart. If D'Antoni doesn't get through to them or he gets out coached in the playoffs, then its time to go.

I agree with your expectation(s).

If we lose but show full throttle competitiveness that might be ok. But, what if we are hustling all over the place but we average 7-28 from 3? Do we blame our shooters or the flip a coin system?

Sometimes shots don't fall, happens to the best teams. Are they shooting 7-28 because they are jacking up shots from 3 point range and abandoning the drive? Forcing up bad shots with someone right in their face when a teammate is wide open?

It goes back to what I said about playing smart. In the end its on the coach to get them to play that way. If they tune him out, it might not be fair, but its on the coach.

TD took a ton of shots last night but I can't say they were bad shot, they just weren't falling. When the shots weren't falling guys started going iso. At the end of the day MDA is not shooting the ball.

With MDA's system, if the knicks are not nailing those threes at a high rate, we can't win. That is a chance that he is taking with his do or die philosophy. But if the Knicks die, so must he. No free passes.

loweyecue wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

MSG3 wrote:MDA needs these guys to compete night in and night out and he has to get past the 1st round to keep his job. Even then I would bring in Phil Jackson if he showed an interest in coaching here.

Wilkins, Chaney, Larry, Isiah, MDA... who cares. When the players are there the wins will be too.

This has the make of a 48 win team every year that might win a first round series here and there for the next 5 years. But we will have 2 all stars and sell out and all that so the excitement is back!

So Wilkins, Chaney, Downtown, Isiah had the same talent that MDA has now? And, being that they had infefior talent they certainly did not deserve to be let go, right?

Are you ok with a bad showing in the first round? There has to be some accountability even for you. Not everyone has MJ/Kobe.

Who cares what talent they had? Did they get their teams to compete every night and exceed expectations? Since that's the only way to grade a coach right?

acknowledging the sarcasm at brushing it aside, YES that is exactly how you grade a coach. If they get the most out of their players, they are doing a GREAT job. It's not that complicated. I don't care if they are bottom-feeders as long as the coach gets the most out of them.

mreinman wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

MSG3 wrote:MDA needs these guys to compete night in and night out and he has to get past the 1st round to keep his job. Even then I would bring in Phil Jackson if he showed an interest in coaching here.

Wilkins, Chaney, Larry, Isiah, MDA... who cares. When the players are there the wins will be too.

This has the make of a 48 win team every year that might win a first round series here and there for the next 5 years. But we will have 2 all stars and sell out and all that so the excitement is back!

So Wilkins, Chaney, Downtown, Isiah had the same talent that MDA has now? And, being that they had infefior talent they certainly did not deserve to be let go, right?

Are you ok with a bad showing in the first round? There has to be some accountability even for you. Not everyone has MJ/Kobe.

Who cares what talent they had? Did they get their teams to compete every night and exceed expectations? Since that's the only way to grade a coach right?

acknowledging the sarcasm at brushing it aside, YES that is exactly how you grade a coach. If they get the most out of their players, they are doing a GREAT job. It's not that complicated. I don't care if they are bottom-feeders as long as the coach gets the most out of them.

Does catching on the sarcasm, somehow excuse you from answering the question? Go ahead and explain how Larry Brown and Lenny Wilkens got the most out of the Knicks here, day in and day out and exactly how they exceeded expectations. And while you are at it name exactly how many head coaches in teh NBA fits that definition of greatness.

nyk4ever wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:He needs to just go as of today. Stat and Melo are in their primes right now.

We're not winning a championship by trying to outscore an opponent, simple as that.

Melo and Amare have never been strong defensive players in the NBA. Why is it MDA's fault Melo doesnt guard?

I REALLY hope we get Phil Jackson just so you will realize 85% of all the teams problems start and stop with the players.

MDA has always won in the NBA when he's had good players

So what would satisfy you in the playoffs? Will you defend MDA if they don't show up in the playoffs? I'm sure, even if you like MDA you expect a certain level of play and some type of showing in the playoffs.

Are you giving him Carte Blanche? Amare and Melo just don't play D and it's over? Lifetime Pass?

I could care less who the coach is.

Turn the question on yourself. If the Heat beat us 4-1 and Lebron smokes Melo except for one game where Melo drops 40 on him is it MDA's fault? Cause Melo has been done in round one every year but one and has never defended very much.

The real question is why does Melo (or any other player or group of players) get a free pass? How many coaches does Melo have to float on defense before we realize its the player who isnt commited to defense?

I'm neither pro Melo or pro MDA. I'm pro Knicks. If the defense sucks its usually because the players. Sometimes a coach fits really well and does a killer job. Doug Collins is doing a killer job in PHili. You want him? I could only laugh at anyone that would have said this offseason to fire MDA for Doug Collins.

TMac ran Doc Rivers out of town in Orl, but he's won a title in Boston.

The Bulls have a coach that is all defense all the time. Is Derrek Rose a good defender? Does he even play hard there? No.. and everyone knows it. Is that Thibs fault?

Melo is a bigtime player, but if we got him hoping he's going to be something he hasnt WTF? Might as well have just waited on the 5 guys we gave up no?

couldn't agree more fish.. very well said.

I second that... my sentiments exactly. I hear what Rainman is saying, though, and I agree that a coach who, by his defensive coaching abstinence, causes his star players to abrogate the job, and thus leave it to "lesser" role-players (i.e., talkin' 'bout you, Fishlips) then it's a huge problem and said coach should go.

But MDA isn't that sort of coach, IMO. His pre-starphuck players demonstrated as much in a number of games, some of them defensive beauties.

Building on what Fishmike wrote, I suggest that the responsibility lies on the star players (the leaders of the team) to set the example on defense. To leave it all on the floor, every night, and demonstrate what it takes to win. MJ did it for all those championship years. Ditto for Duncan and Kobe.

It takes heart, it takes determination, it takes a real grittiness and will to summon the energy and play on both sides of the court, night-after-night, against NBA teams. But we should demand as much from Stat and Melo. The other guys will follow their example, but there MUST be an example set by the big dogs. Stars make ten times as much as lesser players, so why would they put in the effort for chicken scratch if the truly affluent ballers can't be bothered?

MDA isn't playing during the game, but I think he is coaching D. He's no Riley or VG, but he isn't simply ignoring it. Now's time for Melo to man-up and show effort. Stat, too, though he has been improving.

As for the playoffs, I think if we make a solid, seven-game showing in round one, but fall to one of the top teams, then MDA should keep tinkering. If we make it to the second round or further, then without question I want to keep building on the success. I am considering that we are still missing a few key pieces, especially on the front line, probably due to Little Jimmy's penchant for starphucking.

Clearly we can see he's not committed to defense and knows nothing about schemes, defensive set strategies.

He's a horrible coach when getting the most effort out of his players defensively. Hey If your coach doesn't demand high intensity and effort on defense, what makes you think the players will perform consistently on D???

This team can score but they also allow almost the same amount of points which tells you they're not a good defensive unit. Just as great defensive player Bill Russell said" offense wins you games, defense win you championships."

2 ex. knicks are horrible defending the pick and roll, off screens, covering the baseline and most of all, defending the 3 pt line.

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

WOODMANnYk wrote:Guys, Please wake up! Damphoney is not the right coach for this team. He doesn't know anything about defense so whats makes you think The knicks are going far within next 2 yrs with him as coach?

Clearly we can see he's not committed to defense and knows nothing about schemes, defensive set strategies.

He's a horrible coach when getting the most effort out of his players defensively. Hey If your coach doesn't demand high intensity and effort on defense, what makes you think the players will perform consistently on D???

This team can score but they also allow almost the same amount of points which tells you they're not a good defensive unit. Just as great defensive player Bill Russell said" offense wins you games, defense win you championships."

2 ex. knicks are horrible defending the pick and roll, off screens, covering the baseline and most of all, defending the 3 pt line.

Good post.

I don't get it either. What makes people think that D'antoni should be rewarded for the offensive talent of this team, but should not have to take the blame for the lack of defensive effort? He NEVER values defense as much as he values offense. This isn't even my opinion. It's a fact that I and other fans/posters have concluded to by watching this team throughout his time here so far.

We all need to continuously exceed expectations to keep our jobs. Heck, even Tom Coughlin is on the hot seat and he won us a Super Bowl but thats why they get paid the big money. They need to keep the players playing at their peak or C Yaaaaaa.

Let MDA win a ring first before he gets a pass with excuses. He ain't Joe Torre or even Tom Coughlin yet. What has he done? What?

yes it is true you can go far playing defense but frankly none of our personnel fit at all to focus on the defensive side of the ball. that's not d'antoni's fault or even donnie's. we got pretty much all the talent you could ask for after a decade of futility AND a lack of draft picks.

if winning a championship is the standard, then there are about 29 coaches who don't deserve to be employed. simply put, you need the best players and that goes alot further than just being able to play defense. you need both. d'antoni's suns and the early decade kings and after them the mavs, got pretty far on high octane offenses but did not win due to a series of convuluted events. and i can name a whole bunch of other teams who didn't win who leaned just as far defensively as these teams on offense and did not win either including our own mid 90s knicks teams who were HISTORICALLY great on defense but did not win a thing.

i was watching the Fab Five documentary yesterday on ESPN, which was great if you caught it. Jalen Rose said something very poignant about "no one remembering the North Carolina team that beat them. You can't even name 2 starters" or something to that effect. but anyone who is a basketball fan and some who didn't even like basketball could name each of the Fab Five.

winning the championship isn't everything. for all intents and purposes, those SSOL Suns teams and the Webber Kings will be remembered much more fondly than say the DWade/Shaq championship teams. the only thing i can remember about that Heat team was how dwade got the jordan treatment in every game of that series.

anyway, my point is.... championships aren't everything. having a reason to root for your team and going through the trials and tribulations with them is. if it results in a chip then you can celebrate what few fans have had a pleasure to. if it doesn't, you'll eventually get to root for a different group of guys who might. it's a neverending loop of hope but that's what being a fan is in a nutshell.