Paladin55 wrote:

JohnWallace44 wrote:Its the role players that have been killing us so far since the trade. Williams hasn't been able to string two games together.

They'll be fine. We can't keep posting "they're gonna win the East!" after every win and "D'Antoni's the worst coach ever" after every loss.

Or maybe Briggs can, but its not recommended.

Funny, but as Williams has become better on D his offensive production, for the most part, has gotten worse.

true. Natural evolution of young players. I dare say that Williams is probably hitting his "rookie" wall too of sorts.

I don't mind it, I like his effort.

Ellis 24.9pts 5.4rbs 3.40ass 2.2stls 45%
Melo 25.3pts 7.4rbs 2.8ass 0.9stls 458%

Whats the real difference between the two guys. If Ellis had Denvers piecs around them where would they be? David Lee for Ellis was on the table? So which deal and which player would you rather have. Melo? Not even close.

Felton/Douglas
Ellis/Fields
Gallo/Chandler
Amare
Moz

Keep our depth and talent and have the ability to sign chandler and have the most diverse offensive attack in the game. Melo is a ball stopper the same way and he doesn't play defense. We would be an offensive nightmare.

RonRon wrote:it was just poorly constructed trade, we got squeezed of all our value for Melo. There are many combinations of value we should have got from the above...

So I guess that makes Chauncey Billups Dolan's red haired stepchild?

RonRon wrote:
We would rather resign Chandler, and a couple role players to add depth. Then make a trade when the opportunity comes. The addition of 2nd tier stars and role players added to our core...
Chris Kaman, Tyson Chandler, Andre Igoduela, Nene

Pietrus, Sessions, Parker...

We had plenty of draft picks, we had cap room, we had youth and value in our players.

We didn't have time. No one expects Amare to stay healthy over the term of his contract. So we were trying to get eh pieces to make a run NOW.

Yeah, moving on would be nice, except no one seems to be doing it.

Elite wrote:briggs u are really buggin... Walsh did this trade

No he didnt Dolan and Isiah did. Show me in his long history in Indiana even close to a similar deal. Picks pick flips overpaying==Isiah and his little buddie dolan.

BRIGGS wrote:

Elite wrote:briggs u are really buggin... Walsh did this trade

No he didnt Dolan and Isiah did. Show me in his long history in Indiana even close to a similar deal. Picks pick flips overpaying==Isiah and his little buddie dolan.

Donnie Walsh spoke as if he was satisfied with where the team was after the busy trade deadline: "When I first came here, I didn't know if we would ever be in this position this quickly, with three guys like Amar'e, Carmelo and Chauncey," he said. "So I feel good about where the franchise is going from here

We don't want to start overanalyzing too much here, but it almost sounded as if he was speaking with a bit of a disconnect, as if he was suggesting he was comfortable with the condition of the team if he was to leave. Walsh's contract will expire this offseason if a team option for 2011-12 isn't picked up by April 30. There has been no word about his future since James Dolan on Feb. 23 said the two will discuss the matter after the trade deadline. Walsh turned 70 on Tuesday

http://mobile.newsday.com/inf/infomo;JSESSIONID=414FE266696B1E858EF1.3074?site=newsday&view=sports_blogs_item&feed:a=newsday_5min&feed:c=sports_blogs&feed:i=1.2733668&part=6

babyKnicks wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:We got hosed... it will take us about 4 years to recover, where we will have a normal set of draft pics and the salaries tied up in melo/stoudemire aren't detrimental to the team

LOL 4 years--this is a decade wrecking trade. Remember they will have to flush out then you start over--the worst part about it is we HAD IT!!! I like Amare with the team we had--why did we not sit patiently--why did we let carmelo Anthony dictate the teams future over greed? Why is our owner and pseudo GM thomas so f stupid? these answers next time on Batman. We didnt need Melo--we needed guys like Affalo lawson nene and keptb what we had.. Also Mike D terrible job sticking randolph at the 3 pt line---terrible. He should be gone.

We never had it. The plan all along was to accumulate assets to aid the team's starphucking. They'll accumulate more assets in the next few years and then find the next "star" to overpay for.

Yeah...gallo and Chandler would have beat Cleveland ... Oh wait, they didn't either.

My comment had nothing to do with games against Cleveland. Did you reply to the wrong post?

Bonn1997 wrote:

MS wrote:Ellis is signed for 11MM Anthony is getting 18MM and a raise. Compare the numbers. Denver is winning without Melo very easily.

Ellis 24.9pts 5.4rbs 3.40ass 2.2stls 45%
Melo 25.3pts 7.4rbs 2.8ass 0.9stls 458%

Whats the real difference between the two guys. If Ellis had Denvers piecs around them where would they be? David Lee for Ellis was on the table? So which deal and which player would you rather have. Melo? Not even close.

Felton/Douglas
Ellis/Fields
Gallo/Chandler
Amare
Moz

Keep our depth and talent and have the ability to sign chandler and have the most diverse offensive attack in the game. Melo is a ball stopper the same way and he doesn't play defense. We would be an offensive nightmare.

It's really disturbing when you look at it that way! I think it came down to nothing other than a calculation that Carmelo (plus Chauncey) brings more (immediate) money into the Cablevision corporation than
A) Ellis or
B) Gallo + Chandler + Felton + AR + our 2014 pick

Was an Ellis/Lee exchange actually on the table? Can't remember at this time- .

Not necessarily a fan of Ellis, but having him with the guys we lost would have given us the scoring punch and 1/1 ability of Ellis, plus the nice 8 man core shown above.

Very interesting to see the stats of Melo compared with those of Ellis. He would also fit in a lot better with Amare.

Fields, Gallo, Wilson, and Amare can all play at least two positions, and MDA could have had a lot of lineup flexibility.

Ellis's contract also seems quite affordable, now, although it might go to 2013-4 (player option final year).

But yes, he is not the "star" that Anthony is at this point, so he couldn't be used as well in the promotion of the team...

... and no, he was not invited to the Melo wedding, and is therefore out of the player collusion loop.

Interesting to think about as an alternative path the team might have taken, especially with the lack of value Azubuike and Randolph ended up having on the court for us.

Monta Ellis wanted to play in NY. Monta Ellis was Olympic teams. Monta Ellis has made 4 all star teams and is an All Star Starter. Monta Ellis is not an undersized shooting guard. Monta Ellis has not had huge conflicts with his coaches in the past. Monta Ellis is considered a superstar peer with Kobe Bryant and LeBron James. Monta Ellis has his teams in the playoffs every year.

Yes comparable numbers indeed.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

MS wrote:Ellis is signed for 11MM Anthony is getting 18MM and a raise. Compare the numbers. Denver is winning without Melo very easily.

Ellis 24.9pts 5.4rbs 3.40ass 2.2stls 45%
Melo 25.3pts 7.4rbs 2.8ass 0.9stls 458%

Whats the real difference between the two guys. If Ellis had Denvers piecs around them where would they be? David Lee for Ellis was on the table? So which deal and which player would you rather have. Melo? Not even close.

Felton/Douglas
Ellis/Fields
Gallo/Chandler
Amare
Moz

Keep our depth and talent and have the ability to sign chandler and have the most diverse offensive attack in the game. Melo is a ball stopper the same way and he doesn't play defense. We would be an offensive nightmare.

It's really disturbing when you look at it that way! I think it came down to nothing other than a calculation that Carmelo (plus Chauncey) brings more (immediate) money into the Cablevision corporation than
A) Ellis or
B) Gallo + Chandler + Felton + AR + our 2014 pick

Was an Ellis/Lee exchange actually on the table? Can't remember at this time- .

Not necessarily a fan of Ellis, but having him with the guys we lost would have given us the scoring punch and 1/1 ability of Ellis, plus the nice 8 man core shown above.

Very interesting to see the stats of Melo compared with those of Ellis. He would also fit in a lot better with Amare.

Fields, Gallo, Wilson, and Amare can all play at least two positions, and MDA could have had a lot of lineup flexibility.

Ellis's contract also seems quite affordable, now, although it might go to 2013-4 (player option final year).

But yes, he is not the "star" that Anthony is at this point, so he couldn't be used as well in the promotion of the team...

... and no, he was not invited to the Melo wedding, and is therefore out of the player collusion loop.

Interesting to think about as an alternative path the team might have taken, especially with the lack of value Azubuike and Randolph ended up having on the court for us.

I don't know if it was on the table or not but the bigger point is that the production of Ellis and Melo looks identical and we probably could have gotten Ellis for one-tenth of what we gave up for Carmelo.