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Are we contenders?
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Paladin55
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2/25/2011  4:55 PM
AnubisADL wrote:I want to know what others here think. I personally believe we can get to the Finals this year.

The one problem is D'Antoni's refusal to emphasize defense. We have some versatile defenders in Jefferies and Brewer which can help in the playoffs.


Sowing the seeds for a "Get Rid of MDA" thread to follow after this squad does not go as far as you think it will??
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martin
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2/25/2011  4:58 PM
Paladin55 wrote:
martin wrote:
FoeDiddy wrote:
martin wrote:
FoeDiddy wrote:Dantoni cares about defense but sucks at teaching it..his defensive philosphy is terrible.

really, why?



Watching all season..the funneling Point Guards & Wing players to the rim has to come from coaching
..I saw Toney Douglas & Fields funnel guards to the baseline repeatedly against the Bucks and it never worked. Billups had to pull Douglas aside and tell him stop with that nonsense and play your man straight up. Why could Billups point that out after one game and D'Antoni not make the adjustment all season. I bet everything that every teams scouting report is "Knicks Guards concede the drive to guards so drive hard and rotate ball and you will find an open shot"

It's okay to play strong on a guards hand if a pick is coming but our perimeter players do it even with no pick which concedes a lane to rim every time and has team scrambling.

The Knicks' strategy for the whole season has been for opposing players to be funneled to the baseline, so I don't know what you are watching.


A friend of mine whose knowledge of the game I respect told me that JVG used a similar strategy. Anyone know if this is true?

Just wondering.

teams generally funnel either to baseline or down the middle to teeth of D, depending on strength of team. For league, it's about 60/40 baseline/middle.

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rp
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2/25/2011  5:03 PM
Paladin55 wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:I want to know what others here think. I personally believe we can get to the Finals this year.

The one problem is D'Antoni's refusal to emphasize defense. We have some versatile defenders in Jefferies and Brewer which can help in the playoffs.


Sowing the seeds for a "Get Rid of MDA" thread to follow after this squad does not go as far as you think it will??

No Gallo to pick on so its natural to pick the next thing

"Failure is only postponed success as long as courage coaches ambition. The habit of persistence is the habit of victory" -Herbert Kaufman
RonRon
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2/25/2011  5:10 PM
hard to say now, we have to see if the Knicks can gel and develop team chemistry. Individual players are now finding their new roles and identity to the team.
When all is said and done, we have to see if can bring it consistently, match our teams potential, or exceed our expectations.
Anything can happen once you are in the playoffs, talent wise, in the East, I say we are still after Boston, Miami, Chicago, Orlando, and right next to Atlanta.
In my opinion, I think we have a 10% chance of being Eastern Conference Champions. But what if Boston gets knocked out by a 8th seed?
Truth is we are expecting the top 4 teams in advancing and stats suggest that it will but hey, injuries and anything can happen.

Defensively, we have Turiaf, Jeffries, Williams, and Tony Douglous leading us. These guys got heart but I don't think its enough talent.
Even if we add a player like Camby, its still weak compared to Boston and probably EVERY team above us.
I think Tyson Chandler/Perkins/Dalembert are players that can increase our team's defensive play but with no cap space, its going to be almost impossible to get a player
of that caliber. We have to draft or find another gem this summer...

y2zipper
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2/25/2011  5:21 PM
On paper they're probably not as good as Chicago, Boston or Miami but I think they can beat anyone else in the conference. It still needs time to mesh, though.
loweyecue
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2/25/2011  5:23 PM
Setting unrealistic expectations doesn't really help anyone but nay sayers. This thread is bogus.
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
AnubisADL
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2/25/2011  5:38 PM
Paladin55 wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:I want to know what others here think. I personally believe we can get to the Finals this year.

The one problem is D'Antoni's refusal to emphasize defense. We have some versatile defenders in Jefferies and Brewer which can help in the playoffs.


Sowing the seeds for a "Get Rid of MDA" thread to follow after this squad does not go as far as you think it will??

I dont need to sow the seeds because he will get himself fired if we dont perform.

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AnubisADL
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2/25/2011  5:41 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/25/2011  5:42 PM
loweyecue wrote:Setting unrealistic expectations doesn't really help anyone but nay sayers. This thread is bogus.

We can beat Chicago, Orlando, or Atlanta in a 7 game series.

Amare and Carmelo would need to have monster games coupled with guys stepping up for us to beat Miami and Boston. Point is anything can happen in the playoffs. All we need to do is steal a game or 2 and your are in the ECF.

Carmelo and Amare both have jumpers which will be valuable in the playoffs. Plus we got the battle tested Billups running the point.

I think we can sneak into the finals.

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GustavBahler
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2/25/2011  5:44 PM
Contenders? A few pieces short but close. I didn't expect the Knicks to go from one of the worst teams in the league last season to contenders in one season and neither should anyone else. Even if Lebron had come here.
AnubisADL
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2/25/2011  5:52 PM
Dam some of you make it seems like Amare and Carmelo are chopped liver. We got Billups to which will be BIG in the playoffs.
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GustavBahler
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2/25/2011  5:55 PM
AnubisADL wrote:Dam some of you make it seems like Amare and Carmelo are chopped liver. We got Billups to which will be BIG in the playoffs.

I think they will move past the first round but contending to me is a team good enough to get to the finals and I don't believe they are there yet. Close. I hope you are right, that would be quite a turnaround in one season and one more reason for Dolan to give Walsh a new deal.

Knixkik
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2/25/2011  5:59 PM
We are a center away from contending. Jeffries will do, but should be used as a utility player off the bench when we can upgrade. There is no reason we can't be 3rd best in the east right now though behind Boston and Miami.
Paladin55
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2/25/2011  6:06 PM
AnubisADL wrote:Dam some of you make it seems like Amare and Carmelo are chopped liver. We got Billups to which will be BIG in the playoffs.

Not chopped liver, but not James and Wade, either.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
Mray20
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2/25/2011  6:06 PM
We just need a center that can shoot it's so frustrating watching one of the Knicks break down the d and throw a great pass to a wide open Turiaf and he passes the ball right back disrupting the offensive flow. If this dude isn't open for a layup or dunk he passes the ball and that is a big problem cause the defense then can cheat and get away with it. What's worse is Jeffries can't make a damn layup at least Turiaf can. The only thing I like about Jeffries is he is a decent defender and can take charges well that and he wears number 20 .
No layups!
loweyecue
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2/25/2011  6:10 PM
AnubisADL wrote:
loweyecue wrote:Setting unrealistic expectations doesn't really help anyone but nay sayers. This thread is bogus.

We can beat Chicago, Orlando, or Atlanta in a 7 game series.

Amare and Carmelo would need to have monster games coupled with guys stepping up for us to beat Miami and Boston. Point is anything can happen in the playoffs. All we need to do is steal a game or 2 and your are in the ECF.

Carmelo and Amare both have jumpers which will be valuable in the playoffs. Plus we got the battle tested Billups running the point.

I think we can sneak into the finals.

Yes anything can happen. But if Carmelo and Amare don't have those monster games let's not come back here and spin that into MDA doesn't coach defense.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
Paladin55
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2/25/2011  6:39 PM
loweyecue wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:
loweyecue wrote:Setting unrealistic expectations doesn't really help anyone but nay sayers. This thread is bogus.

We can beat Chicago, Orlando, or Atlanta in a 7 game series.

Amare and Carmelo would need to have monster games coupled with guys stepping up for us to beat Miami and Boston. Point is anything can happen in the playoffs. All we need to do is steal a game or 2 and your are in the ECF.

Carmelo and Amare both have jumpers which will be valuable in the playoffs. Plus we got the battle tested Billups running the point.

I think we can sneak into the finals.

Yes anything can happen. But if Carmelo and Amare don't have those monster games let's not come back here and spin that into MDA doesn't coach defense.

The basic problem regarding our D, is that except for Amare's shot blocking, he and Melo are poor defenders, and Billups has lost a step or two at his age.

I've said it before- being a good defender is more about heart and desire than it is about some magic instructions from some defensive guru coach.

Guys like Jordan, Clyde, Kobe, Wade, James, Pippin, Rodman, Ewing, etc., took it personally if you beat them on D, and this showed in their tenacity. I love the way Amare has come in and helped turn the team around, but his D is spotty at best, and like Melo, he is not the type that sweats getting beat on a play.

At best we may be the 4th best team in the East- most likely we are the 5th, unless Orlando's slide continues.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
AnubisADL
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2/25/2011  6:55 PM
Paladin55 wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:
loweyecue wrote:Setting unrealistic expectations doesn't really help anyone but nay sayers. This thread is bogus.

We can beat Chicago, Orlando, or Atlanta in a 7 game series.

Amare and Carmelo would need to have monster games coupled with guys stepping up for us to beat Miami and Boston. Point is anything can happen in the playoffs. All we need to do is steal a game or 2 and your are in the ECF.

Carmelo and Amare both have jumpers which will be valuable in the playoffs. Plus we got the battle tested Billups running the point.

I think we can sneak into the finals.

Yes anything can happen. But if Carmelo and Amare don't have those monster games let's not come back here and spin that into MDA doesn't coach defense.

The basic problem regarding our D, is that except for Amare's shot blocking, he and Melo are poor defenders, and Billups has lost a step or two at his age.

I've said it before- being a good defender is more about heart and desire than it is about some magic instructions from some defensive guru coach.

Guys like Jordan, Clyde, Kobe, Wade, James, Pippin, Rodman, Ewing, etc., took it personally if you beat them on D, and this showed in their tenacity. I love the way Amare has come in and helped turn the team around, but his D is spotty at best, and like Melo, he is not the type that sweats getting beat on a play.

At best we may be the 4th best team in the East- most likely we are the 5th, unless Orlando's slide continues.

Carmelo and Amare have proven they can good defenders when they apply themselves. I dont think Carmelo's defense will be an issue in the playoffs.

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loweyecue
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2/25/2011  7:15 PM
Paladin55 wrote:
loweyecue wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:
loweyecue wrote:Setting unrealistic expectations doesn't really help anyone but nay sayers. This thread is bogus.

We can beat Chicago, Orlando, or Atlanta in a 7 game series.

Amare and Carmelo would need to have monster games coupled with guys stepping up for us to beat Miami and Boston. Point is anything can happen in the playoffs. All we need to do is steal a game or 2 and your are in the ECF.

Carmelo and Amare both have jumpers which will be valuable in the playoffs. Plus we got the battle tested Billups running the point.

I think we can sneak into the finals.

Yes anything can happen. But if Carmelo and Amare don't have those monster games let's not come back here and spin that into MDA doesn't coach defense.

The basic problem regarding our D, is that except for Amare's shot blocking, he and Melo are poor defenders, and Billups has lost a step or two at his age.

I've said it before- being a good defender is more about heart and desire than it is about some magic instructions from some defensive guru coach.

Guys like Jordan, Clyde, Kobe, Wade, James, Pippin, Rodman, Ewing, etc., took it personally if you beat them on D, and this showed in their tenacity. I love the way Amare has come in and helped turn the team around, but his D is spotty at best, and like Melo, he is not the type that sweats getting beat on a play.

At best we may be the 4th best team in the East- most likely we are the 5th, unless Orlando's slide continues.

I agree with this. Amare and Melo are not people who will give consistent effort on defense, otherwise George Karl would have had an effect on Melo by now and whoever replaced MDA in PHX would have gotten more out of Amare defesively. But the argument is that we don't need STAT/Melo to be stellar on defense, we need them to be adequate. And that is where I think we can and will get that from them because of their overarching desire to win (these guys are not David Lee on defense). If you put the right pieces around them our defense will be good enough to contend with.

Ultimately what I see is a philosophy switch in the make-up of our team. We went from a collection of fringe star like two-way players to a front loaded offense heavy star power based team. I have argued vociferously against JJ2 before, because he was a one way player on a two way team. But our total 180 degree switch in team make up means a defensive specialist can now be a real complimentary player. So it comes down to whether you are sold on JJ2 being a defensive specialist or not, I am not.

TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
loweyecue
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2/25/2011  7:16 PM
At some level the three of us are agreeing...
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
nixluva
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2/25/2011  7:30 PM
IMO once you put 3 All Star level players into your starting lineup, you're a contender. This is the NBA, not Football. You only need a couple of All Stars to be really good. We have a SL that can matchup very well with the best in the league. Not better than anyone else, but good enough to make any game a battle and have a fair shot to win. Plus all 3 of our stars have a history of being able to make game winning plays. They have no fear of the bigshot. Don't underestimate that fact.
Are we contenders?

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