Knickoftime wrote:So we're pretending Denver don't measure behind the Knicks in some defensive metrics (http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/sort/defensiveEff/order/true) and gave up a grand total of 1.1 more points a game on average (actually less, because this total reflects last night's low-scoring score).

We're blaming it all on Anthony?

Frankly, I think taking veiled shots at Anthony is somewhat classless from Karl, particularly since he's somewhat implied through some of his comments that Anthony coached the team, and not he. That as head coach he had no choice and just stayed there for years and took it.

Pragmatically, may have some truth to it, but he seems to be scapegoating 'Melo and not taking responsibility as head coach and I don't have a lot of respect for that.

those shots were not even veiled. they were as direct as they could be. he pretty much said the guy doesn't play defense. i was thrilled with Karl's comments. it's like he's coaching for the Knicks. if melo has the attitude i think he has, he's gonna have a serious chip on his shoulder and an aim to prove he's a complete player now moreso than before.

tkf wrote:imagine sitting melo and stat and coming in with chandler, gallo and moz?

wow

"Wow" is right.

A year without a collective bargaining agreement preventing such a grouping would be cool.

George Karl and JVG both said the exact same thing about whether system should dictate defense. They both implied the best players on the team have to show a commitment to playing D and lead by example. They both said the best player doesn't have to be a lock down defender nor does he have to be the best defender on the team but his effort should be the most visible. Technically one could argue Gallo when here showed the most desire to man up and play although he may not have been the best defender on our team. This is what Denver never saw from Melo. There's also a big difference between Man D and Team D and Melo more so than anything else is a horrific TEAM defender.

He's someone who played the game to preserve himself on the offensive end and to assure he maximized his minutes on the floor.

I thought the most telling point in Denver's game yesterday how Karl took Chandler out of the game with about 3:30min left(he was playing well) and went with a small back court who ended up pressuring the Celtics to hurry up their offense. It worked. People need not forget Karl coached Payton/McMillan/Kemp/McKey/Schrempf very very very good defenders in their day, so he knows what it like to be around players/team/system with defense.

BRIGGS wrote:
tfk--exactly. On top of which I read that Melo would be making 10+mm a year in extra endorsements from nY now. If he just stayed patient--we would haeva much better team. This trade was a mortgage that we will be paying for 4 five years. thats not how you hedge downside( aka injury) the people who thought hat Denver was turning into a Clev were obtuse. Denver is better than the Knicks right now--point blank--they would beat us in a best of 7. Now we need to improve--but we dont have much leeway--everything has to hit. Its telling if you give up two players that are your so-called franchise players YET seem on basis to have improved in a short sample. Think of George mason or Butler--team means a lot.

Look, Briggs, Denver certainly has more depth - you can't deny that. But if you think the Knicks wouldn't win a series in which they have 3 of the top 4 players on the floor (Melo, Amare, Nene, Billups - 3 are Knicks) - that's crazy.

Add in the fact that Melo would have extra incentive to play well with George Karl's comments. Knicks would destroy the Nuggets.

Earlier in the season you were saying Amar'e is an MVP candidate now and the Knicks should not wait and should make a big play to improve now. Well, they did. You don't agree with it and I have mixed feelings about it... but you cannot argue that they are a better team right now than they were two weeks ago.

They are a better team today - this trade was about contending while Amar'e was in his prime. Next 4-5 years with Carmelo/Amar'e and whoever else they add will be better than without Carmelo.

In all likelihood Wilson would have been gone in FA either way. I kind of hope they take a look at bringing Wilson back this summer, but I know that's probably a pipe dream.

crzymdups wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:
tfk--exactly. On top of which I read that Melo would be making 10+mm a year in extra endorsements from nY now. If he just stayed patient--we would haeva much better team. This trade was a mortgage that we will be paying for 4 five years. thats not how you hedge downside( aka injury) the people who thought hat Denver was turning into a Clev were obtuse. Denver is better than the Knicks right now--point blank--they would beat us in a best of 7. Now we need to improve--but we dont have much leeway--everything has to hit. Its telling if you give up two players that are your so-called franchise players YET seem on basis to have improved in a short sample. Think of George mason or Butler--team means a lot.

Look, Briggs, Denver certainly has more depth - you can't deny that. But if you think the Knicks wouldn't win a series in which they have 3 of the top 4 players on the floor (Melo, Amare, Nene, Billups - 3 are Knicks) - that's crazy.

Add in the fact that Melo would have extra incentive to play well with George Karl's comments. Knicks would destroy the Nuggets.

Earlier in the season you were saying Amar'e is an MVP candidate now and the Knicks should not wait and should make a big play to improve now. Well, they did. You don't agree with it and I have mixed feelings about it... but you cannot argue that they are a better team right now than they were two weeks ago.

They are a better team today - this trade was about contending while Amar'e was in his prime. Next 4-5 years with Carmelo/Amar'e and whoever else they add will be better than without Carmelo.

In all likelihood Wilson would have been gone in FA either way. I kind of hope they take a look at bringing Wilson back this summer, but I know that's probably a pipe dream.

Totally agree with this. As Knickoftime mentioned in another thread, if you want to be in contention to win a championship, its much better to have a strong 4 than a good 10. Nuggs have very good supporting players but know one to support. Teams like the current Nuggs, the Grizzlies, The Blazers, etc have enough talent to make it to the playoffs but never enough to beat the elite. In order for the Nugs to contend, they will have to get the start they just traded.

First game for new Nuggets:

Gallinari 19min 1-6/FG 0-2/3pt 0-0/FT 2/pts 4/rebs 0/asts 2/stls 3/blks 0/TOs
Chandler 25min 5-9/FG 1-2/3pt 1-2/FT 16/pts 5/rebs 0/asts 1/stls 1/blks 0/TOs
Felton 28min 2-8/FG 0-0/3pt 0-0/FT 4/pts 5/rebs 6/asts 0/stls 0/blks 4/TOs
Mozgov - DNP-CD

Totals - 72min - 8-23/FG - 22/pts - 14rebs - 6asts - 3stls - 4blks - 4TOs

First game for new Knicks

Anthony 39min 10-25/FG 1-2/3pt 7-7/FT 27/pts 10/rebs 1/ast 2/stls 0/blks 2/TOs
Billups 33min 4/12/FG 1-6/3pt 12-12/FT 21/pts 6/rebs 8/ast 2/stls 0/blks 2/TOs

Totals - 72min - 14-37/FG - 48/pts - 16rebs - 9ast - 4stls - 0blks - 4TOs

Doesn't prove a whole lot, but I was just curious to look at the numbers.

But ordered my #7 Knick Jersey first!!

Gallo will be sick in Denver....... You can see how different Karl wants to utilize him.

No more sitting and waiting on 3 point line.

Gallo @ 4 will be huge for his career...... He didn't play his best scoring game yesterday but
he looked EVEN BETTER ON D then he ever has.

Was giving Pierce fits last night....... I truly believe he will be the goto guy as a Nugget in no
time at all.

Now all that being said WE GOT MELO & BILLUPS

If you cant see difference in what we have and what we had I have to say your BB IQ is quite low!

Not saying we are the best team in the NBA but the best teams all BELIEVE WE GOT BETTER!!

Ask any PG in league who they worry about more?.... Felton or Billups?

I say 100% of them all say Billups

Ask all the Players in NBA who scares u more?.... Gallo Chandler and Moz or Melo?

Even at 3 to 1 I believe Melo is a scarier option to guard.

I love Gallo and if u check archives I was first to ever mention Gallo way b4 draft!

I NEVER wanted to see us trade him...... Watched all of Denver game to see him play.

But we got MElo now and are better for it.

When Walsh was hired if he would of said in 2 years I'll bring you Amare Melo and Billups.

Everyone to a man on this site would of said OK get rid of everyone for those 3 and we will
worship you!

We gave up a whole lot to get Melo i agree but what did we give for Billups?... Nothing!

We gave 6 players 2 of which didn't play a lick. We got 6 players back. 2 of which are
both top 10 in their position. 1 is top 5

We are favorites to get a third star for Billups 14 million contract next year as well. ( I see
3 or 4 way trade with Billups back in Denver. Hopefully Gallo back to NY )

Garden rocked the other night..... As much as I love the guys who left the could never do that!

Knicks are already richest team in NBA but yet ticket prices have doubled since trade.

We are #1 talk of NY..... Over Yankees Mets Rangers Jets and Giants!!

IMO we will struggle a bit till we gel but come on NO ONE CAN SAY WE DIDN"T KILL THIS TRADE!!

If we traded all that and got CP3 along with Melo everyone would be flipping?

Billups gets us Paul straight up as far as contracts are concerned. Just more food for thought.

Loving this deal more every minute!!

Still miss Gallo though!!

Knickoftime wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:...I read that Melo would be making 10+mm a year in extra endorsements from nY now.

So long as Chris Paul, Deron Williams, and Dwight Howard read the same, I'm good.

what's your take/odds on 1 of those 3 guys being a Knick in summer of 2012?

All things being equal'ish with the new CBA... I am giving the Knicks a 50/50 chance of landing Deron or CP3.

DurzoBlint wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:and when is the last time a players went directly for his press conference to an abbreviated shoot around right and still perform well. As far as I'm concerned Melo performed above my expectation that day

Who was saying anything bad about Melo?

well you made a backhanded swipe with the "barely beat" milwaukee statement. Don't think you meant it like that but, I felt the point needed to be made. Sorry if I can off a bit bullish....having a shytee day at work.

Huh? Where did I say that? The only thing I did was compare Gallo and Melo's struggles in shooting the ball but both took good shots.

EDIT: mreinman was the one that posted that.

sorry, not you but mreinman said it in post 1 of this thread.

Just to clarify my point in simpler terms:

I know we got better offensively. However, we got IMHO significantly worse on defense (if that's possible). You don't win anything if you are not a top defensive team. All the top stars are 2-way players. Not ours. Please tell me what team has won a championship in recent years without big-time defensive stoppers? This team is like the Denver Nuggets of the 80's (with better talent). High flying, no defense. If we got Deron instead (which I am sure we could not - hopefuly next year) we would have improved defensively.

Denver with this trade got much better defensively.

I hope I am wrong!