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Chad Ford: Walsh preferred Williams to Melo
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Paladin55
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2/23/2011  2:35 PM
Knickoftime wrote:
Paladin55 wrote:Just saying I would have preferred Williams over Anthony.

Me too.

Would have preferred Lebron James over Stat or 'Melo too.

And can you imagine the frustration of some who wonder if we give up more for someone than we had to give up?

No.

At some point it think it's just healthier and more fun to accept what occurs and not pine for a fantasy.

I don't like that the had to give up what they did.

But if given the choice of the trade that was made and no trade at all, i choose the former.

Cliff Lee liked the Phillies better, I move on.

I just don't see the appeal of what might have been.

Talk about a perpetual source of frustration.


Appeal- no... more like a curse, and although I dabble in thinking like a Buddhist, I am not able to separate myself from all of my attachments.

And don't think regrets over this trade won't resurface in the future if things don't work out as well a a some are expecting they will.

Good, bad, or mediocre- this is only the beginning.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
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GodSaveTheKnicks
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2/23/2011  2:41 PM
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:Maybe he did. Seems credible enough.

But so what?

Utah has phones.

If the Knicks were in the game, Utah would have let them know.

I am inclined to believe this wholeheartedly. Picks/Favors/low salary better then Moz/Chandler/Gallo/immediate raises over next 2 years.

+1

NJ just had more assets and cheaper assets to offer a rebuilding GM than the Knicks did. They could have beat us our for both Deron Williams and Melo. The only reason we got Melo is because he wanted to come here. If it was an open market, we wouldn't really have a chance.

Props to Donnie for putting us in a position to get Melo but a lot of the credit has to go..to Melo..

Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
Vmart
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2/23/2011  2:46 PM
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:
martin wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:Maybe he did. Seems credible enough.

But so what?

Utah has phones.

If the Knicks were in the game, Utah would have let them know.

I am inclined to believe this wholeheartedly. Picks/Favors/low salary better then Moz/Chandler/Gallo/immediate raises over next 2 years.

+1

NJ just had more assets and cheaper assets to offer a rebuilding GM than the Knicks did. They could have beat us our for both Deron Williams and Melo. The only reason we got Melo is because he wanted to come here. If it was an open market, we wouldn't really have a chance.

Props to Donnie for putting us in a position to get Melo but a lot of the credit has to go..to Melo..

Yes, props to Donnie when you think about it only reason the Nuggests did the deal was to accommodate Melo's needs. Otherwise the Knicks are on the out looking in.

fishmike
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2/23/2011  2:47 PM
Vmart wrote:Great point guards rarely win championships. Its the good ones that win. Soounds crazy right but just check the history of PGs to win championships and you will find that Majic was the last great point guard to win a championship.

who was the best player on the Pistons?

If anything PGs have had bad luck. Payon, Price and Stockton all played in the MJ/Pippen era. Tough break. Jason Kidd got to the finals twice w/ the Nets and those were not great teams.

Often I think the problem is great PGs elevate mediocre rotation players and the teams simply arent as talented as people think. Is that the PG's fault?

Tony Parker is pretty damn good... definatly the 2nd best player on a couple of title teams.

So many factors go into winning teams and elite teams. Tell you one thing you need... thats size. Knicks better find some quality size sooner than later

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
grillco
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2/23/2011  3:15 PM
Vmart wrote:Great point guards rarely win championships. Its the good ones that win. Soounds crazy right but just check the history of PGs to win championships and you will find that Majic was the last great point guard to win a championship.

This has been very true of the past two decades. The Bulls 6x, the Lakers 5x, Spurs 4x (one without Parker), Rockets 2x, Pistons, Heat, and Celtics. The Bulls never had an elite point. Derek's contributions can't be denied, but he's nowhere near and all-time great PG. Kenny the Jet, nice player and guy, but not "great". Billups and Parker make huge contributions to their teams and while they may one day get their due in the HoF, they are not elite like Nash, Kidd, Stockton and other guys with 8-10 dimes a game. And to Vmart's point, those three stellar points share the some number of rings... Rondo seems to be the real deal, but he wasn't that when the Celtics won their ring...he keeps getting better though and has 12 apg this year. It's weird but true that the teams with the best floor leaders are rarely champions and often aren't always winners.

SlimChin
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2/23/2011  3:21 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/23/2011  3:21 PM
this is what i say about this thread: who the f cares? what's done is done. how much can we scream at a dead horse after it'e been beaten to death.
BlueSeats
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2/23/2011  3:21 PM
I think Melo/Billups with a shot at Paul is the better move for us than DW and, say, hoping Howard would want to follow.

Amare/Melo were never my first of all choices, but they're damn good pieces.

fishmike
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2/23/2011  3:28 PM
grillco wrote:
Vmart wrote:Great point guards rarely win championships. Its the good ones that win. Soounds crazy right but just check the history of PGs to win championships and you will find that Majic was the last great point guard to win a championship.

This has been very true of the past two decades. The Bulls 6x, the Lakers 5x, Spurs 4x (one without Parker), Rockets 2x, Pistons, Heat, and Celtics. The Bulls never had an elite point. Derek's contributions can't be denied, but he's nowhere near and all-time great PG. Kenny the Jet, nice player and guy, but not "great". Billups and Parker make huge contributions to their teams and while they may one day get their due in the HoF, they are not elite like Nash, Kidd, Stockton and other guys with 8-10 dimes a game. And to Vmart's point, those three stellar points share the some number of rings... Rondo seems to be the real deal, but he wasn't that when the Celtics won their ring...he keeps getting better though and has 12 apg this year. It's weird but true that the teams with the best floor leaders are rarely champions and often aren't always winners.

by definition of the position PG, Pippen (top 50 all time NBA player, HOF) was the PG for the Bulls. Sure Pax, Kerr, Harper, etc played the "slot" but Pip was the primary ball handler and facilitator of the offense.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
technomaster
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2/23/2011  3:34 PM
Well... from NBA.com - finals MVPs from the past 21 that played PG:

1990 -- Isiah Thomas, Detroit
Led all players in the NBA Finals with 27.6 points and 7.0 assists per game as the Pistons defeated the Portland Trail Blazers, 4-1, to win their second consecutive NBA title.

2004 -- Chauncey Billups, Detroit
Averaged 21 points and 5.2 assists to lead the Pistons to a 4-1 victory over the Los Angeles Lakers. Billups shot 51% from the field and 93% from the foul line for the series.

2007 -- Tony Parker, San Antonio Spurs
The 6-foot-2 Parker shot an astounding 42-for-74 (.568) from the field and averaged 24.5 points in the Spurs' four-game sweep of the Cleveland Cavaliers. The 25-year-old Frenchman became the first European-born NBA Finals MVP.


In that same time span:
Michael Jordan, 6 MVPs
Duncan, 3 MVPs
Shaq, 3 MVPs
Hakeem, 2 MVPs
Kobe, 2 MVPs
Pierce, 1 MVP
Wade, 1 MVP

That makes 10 wing MVPs (9 SGs, 1 SF), 8 Big Man MVPs (5 Cs, 3 PFs), and 3 PGs in 21 years. Note that in the Shaq/Kobe pairing, Shaq won the MVP every time.

“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
technomaster
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2/23/2011  3:38 PM
Strictly back on topic, the Nets offer for 'Melo IS/WAS better than the Knicks's offer - that is, if you
1) value Devin Harris's upside (Howard Eisley, anyone?)
2) feel good about your team's scouting capabilities. (superb scouting in Utah!)

The Knicks offer for Melo probably wouldn't have gotten the job done, though it has to be said that Gallo being Italian would have been considered a plus, given Utah's track record of putting together their roster.

“That was two, two from the heart.” - John Starks
TheGame
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2/23/2011  3:41 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/23/2011  3:46 PM
The Knicks were aware of the offer. Do you think if Utah preferred the Knicks offer then would not have told them, hey we will take that over Nets? The knicks knew Deron was available, and Utah knew what the Knicks had to give. Utah simply decided it wanted what NJ was offering more and it simply waited for the Melo situation to resolve itself. In short, we could not have gotten Deron unless Denver sent him to NJ, and even then, it is questionable whether Utah liked our package of players.
Trust the Process
BlueSeats
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2/23/2011  4:57 PM
If Walsh really wanted Deron and we want to play out the gamesmanship, he could have let the Nets get Melo, leaving Utah stuck with us as partners.
Marv
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2/23/2011  4:59 PM
SlimChin wrote:this is what i say about this thread: who the f cares? what's done is done. how much can we scream at a dead horse after it'e been beaten to death.

are you kidding me? that's practically our motto here at uk.

SupremeCommander
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2/23/2011  5:01 PM
technomaster wrote:Strictly back on topic, the Nets offer for 'Melo IS/WAS better than the Knicks's offer - that is, if you
1) value Devin Harris's upside (Howard Eisley, anyone?)
2) feel good about your team's scouting capabilities. (superb scouting in Utah!)

The Knicks offer for Melo probably wouldn't have gotten the job done, though it has to be said that Gallo being Italian would have been considered a plus, given Utah's track record of putting together their roster.

I hope Utah is looking to flip Devin Harris, because I'd be interested

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
Knixkik
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2/23/2011  9:41 PM
This was a better deal for the Knicks. Nets gave up too much for a non-committed player. Also, We have a legit chance to add a PG next summer, whereas if we got our PG now, we wouldn't have an opportunity to get a player of Melo's caliber next summer. Maybe Dwight, but it seems like a pipedream.
mightymatt
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2/23/2011  11:51 PM
D-Will makes a bad team slightly below mediocre at best, this only pays dividends if he signs a contract extension and attracts players to come and play for the Nets in their new Brooklyn home...

still gotta wait and see what the new CBA looks like as to whether staying with the nets will even be appealing to him...

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/211315/Deron_Unhappy_With_Trade_To_Nets

Deron Williams was traded to the Nets on Wednesday, in a package that sent Derrick Favors, Devin Harris and two first round picks to Utah.

Williams is reportedly unhappy with the trade, according to reporting from the Salt Lake Tribune.

The trade came together very quickly and Williams was completely shocked to hear about it.

and if anyone read that Stephen A. Smith (not always a big fan of what he has to say) article on espn..the nets have their work cut out for them in convincing D-Will to stay with a losing Nets team while across town will be an emerging knicks era!

TymeLessKnicks
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2/24/2011  12:04 AM
Paladin55 wrote:Williams makes the guys around him better- Melo makes the guys around him work harder because he does not do much for a team if he does not have the ball in his hands.

I would have had much less regret over losing the guys we did if Williams, and not Anthony, had ended up on the Knicks.

He is a much better player all-around player and a better fit for our team, IMO.


strong point but billups melo amar'e is a much more balanced team than williams amare, no?

assuming they would have taken the denver deal.

Had enough Melo?
BRIGGS
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2/24/2011  12:14 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/24/2011  12:17 AM
TymeLessKnicks wrote:
Paladin55 wrote:Williams makes the guys around him better- Melo makes the guys around him work harder because he does not do much for a team if he does not have the ball in his hands.

I would have had much less regret over losing the guys we did if Williams, and not Anthony, had ended up on the Knicks.

He is a much better player all-around player and a better fit for our team, IMO.


strong point but billups melo amar'e is a much more balanced team than williams amare, no?

assuming they would have taken the denver deal.

I wouldnt have done either deal. I liked the position we were in and unless I was getting shaq Mourninhg etc.. at 23 years old--not worth it. I thought we looked very choppy out there--yes first night but the aesthetic look to the game was poor.

I do respect the fan fair. the crowd was very happy so you have to acknowledge that many people were happy to have him here--many paying customers have suffered a long time--and if getting melo made them happy--you accept that. Its not a good team--we are worse than we were before the trade--but let see where it goes.

RIP Crushalot😞
TymeLessKnicks
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2/24/2011  12:30 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
TymeLessKnicks wrote:
Paladin55 wrote:Williams makes the guys around him better- Melo makes the guys around him work harder because he does not do much for a team if he does not have the ball in his hands.

I would have had much less regret over losing the guys we did if Williams, and not Anthony, had ended up on the Knicks.

He is a much better player all-around player and a better fit for our team, IMO.


strong point but billups melo amar'e is a much more balanced team than williams amare, no?

assuming they would have taken the denver deal.

I wouldnt have done either deal. I liked the position we were in and unless I was getting shaq Mourninhg etc.. at 23 years old--not worth it. I thought we looked very choppy out there--yes first night but the aesthetic look to the game was poor.

I do respect the fan fair. the crowd was very happy so you have to acknowledge that many people were happy to have him here--many paying customers have suffered a long time--and if getting melo made them happy--you accept that. Its not a good team--we are worse than we were before the trade--but let see where it goes.


didn't see tonight's game but lets hope you are wrong.

Had enough Melo?
DurzoBlint
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2/24/2011  12:47 PM
Id rather have Paul. He imo has a better understanding of the game and doesn't feel that he has to take over every game with scoring. He has shown that he knows how to win within the offense instead of breaking it to get his stats.
the fact that you can't even have an unrelated thread without some tool here bringing him up make me think that rational minds are few and far between. Bunch of emotionally weak, angst riddled people. I mean, how many times can you argue the same shyt
Chad Ford: Walsh preferred Williams to Melo

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