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Ill give anyone a chance to explin to this board--exactly how do we improve the team
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BigSm00th
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2/23/2011  9:32 AM
thank you fish mike.
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FeltonandAmare
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2/23/2011  9:32 AM
Briggs, stop being a drama queen. Walsh isn't worried why should you be?

“We retained room for the next summer, which is the summer we wanted to retain the room for,” Walsh said.

Only Stoudemire, Anthony and Renaldo Balkman ($1.5 million) are signed for 2012. But the new labor agreement could put a franchise tag on stars to restrict movement to players such as Paul.

Plus, the owners’ recent proposal called for a cap of $45 million.

When asked if the Knicks will have enough room for a star in 2012, Walsh said, “If we choose to. You can divide it up and get two players. We’ll have cap room. No matter what happens, we’ll have cap room.”

Commissioner David Stern’s doomsday scenario would leave the Knicks $5 million under. But Walsh said if that happens “everybody’s going to have to go down, and $5 million could be the biggest in the league.”

According to a labor source, owner James Dolan is the most ardent supporter of a larger, softer cap — now more than ever.

Knickoftime
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2/23/2011  9:33 AM
BRIGGS wrote:when our cap number is atleast 50mm for 5 players when we are forced to pay Landry Field ATLEAST 5mm or more upfrontin 2012? forget the other max FA--that a nother line of BS--its not feasible. I dont even see how we improve much??? anyone else have a formula they can provide. Can u do the math for an idiot like me?

I can do the math for an idiot like you, yes.

Summer of 2012

Carmelo Anthony - $19.9m

Wilson Chandler - due at least $9m
Danilo Gallinari - $12.6m cap hold.
Mosgov - $3.1m

Despite your self-acknowledged lack of math skills, I'm willing to bet with some pencil, paper and a few quality minutes of alone time, you can tell us which above figure is higher?

The notion that the Knicks would have cap flexibility beyond June 2012, and that the flexibility they did have was dependent on NOT resigning Chandler and Gallinari, was a myth, perpetuated by people, as you say, aren't very good at math. Unless you're putting all your eggs in the a sign-and-trade for Gallinari was going to net the Knicks a different, better player than Carmelo Anthony.

The fantasy of the Knicks "improving" to a greater degree than they did this week is and was a speculative fantasy built on the house of cards on the premise that everything was going to go exactly right for the Knicks.

That the key players would "develop" to actual be borderline superstar players and that their new contract did not outpace their production. But here's the problem.

It's established fact NBA players are on average are at the height of their value on their rookie contracts. Players get their first big contract in their early 20's, when competitive market forces require teams to pay a player not solely on production generated, but potential and projection built in, at which time on a ration of at least 2 to 1, if not 3 to 1 or even higher, a player is signed to what turns out to be an unattractive contract.

Usually only the very late bloomers wind up on attractive, cost-efficient contracts.

Another established fact: The 2011 free agent class (even with 'Melo) is historically weak, with perhaps the two parts most attractive to the Knicks (Jordan and Gasol) restricted free agents.

Since signing either of them to an offer would require renouncing Wilson Chandler, how astute a chance would you regard that be to take?

Or what unrestricted free agent are you confident enough to secure to let Chandler walk away?

So now I'm going to ask you to answer your own question, with a slightly different set of parameters.

With Chandler, Gallinari, Fields and Felton all due for decisions, which would likely involve significant raises in the next 17 months, how would the Knicks have improved?

I'll be happy to lend a hand with the math if you so require it.

fishmike
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2/23/2011  9:36 AM
BRIGGS wrote:-->ct of the matter is -- the knicks dealt 3 somewhat promising prospects

What???

Randolph
Mosgov
Chandler
felton
Gallo

3 draft picks

AND our large cap space for next year


You guys just do not understand COLLECTIVELY what we gave up. we gave up a whole frikin team and all additional tangible assets. the last game we played and won--we ahve up 3 starters and the 6th man LOL only time in NBA history a team has done this with a winning record. we didnt get a 23 yo shaq


now we are stuck perilously thin with little ways to improve. we cant add because it will take up cap space in 2012. the best chance this team actually has is this year LOL!!!


you once offered our best players and 3 picks for Kwame Brown. The NBA is dominated by star players who impress their win on the game. You get it, your just in denial right now.

There is nothing stopping Walsh from buying picks as he has before to add your heart throb types like Dejaun Blair or Hassan Whiteside. Mosgov was aquired out of thin air. You were ready to dump AR for 30 game rental player.

Walsh's job just got easier with two stars to build around who both chose NY and want to be here.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Finestrg
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2/23/2011  9:38 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/23/2011  9:58 AM
fishmike wrote:Briggs, why the drama over the cap #? So long as its a soft cap the Knicks can go over, its not an issue. Its a level playing field up to that point. How did the Spurs get better? How did Boston? How did the Lakers?

Walsh has repeatedly demonstrated his ability to add assets whether it was buying picks, low cost FAs.

How 'bout D-league callups right about now??? How are me and CrushAlot the only ones talking about this angle? I think it's our best option right now by far..We're talking negligible cap impact for potentially a lot of value here..And a chance to see if we discover any cost-effective keepers for next year...It'll require some roster trimming but so what? Do it..Azubuike (provided we don't trade him), Roger Mason, Anthony Carter and Shelden Williams should all be bought out at a prorated rate immediately...Then there's a ton of guys down on the farm that we could offer 10-day contracts to:

PG: Curtis Stinson, Scottie Reynolds
SG: Othyus Jeffers
SF: DeShawn Sims
PF: Jeff Adrien, Sean Williams
C: Marcus Cousin, Chris Johnson, Courtney Sims

You mean to tell me we can't retool the underbelly of this roster (at least some of it anyway) with some of this superior, hungry talent?? All it requires is a little thinking outside the box and a coach who would actually make use of this type of talent if we chose to go this route..If we open up those 4 roster spots we could conceivably add a PG, a wing, a PF and a legit center to the mix..Is that opportunity not worth it to us?? I think it should be.

FA Centers Earl Barron & Dwayne Jones are also available btw...

Andrew
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2/23/2011  9:39 AM
Knickoftime wrote:Another established fact: The 2011 free agent class (even with 'Melo) is historically weak, with perhaps the two parts most attractive to the Knicks (Jordan and Gasol) restricted free agents.

Since signing either of them to an offer would require renouncing Wilson Chandler, how astute a chance would you regard that be to take?

What cap number and starting salary are you figuring for this?

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Knickoftime
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2/23/2011  9:40 AM
fishmike wrote:you once offered our best players and 3 picks for Kwame Brown. The NBA is dominated by star players who impress their win on the game. You get it, your just in denial right now.

I'm sorry fishmike, I'm not big fan of Briggs. But there is NO WAY this is true. I refuse to believe it.

It is not possible that anyone with this sort of mark on their record would be here spouting criticisms with such unwavering conviction.

foosballnick
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2/23/2011  9:46 AM
BRIGGS wrote:when our cap number is atleast 50mm for 5 players when we are forced to pay Landry Field ATLEAST 5mm or more upfrontin 2012? forget the other max FA--that a nother line of BS--its not feasible. I dont even see how we improve much??? anyone else have a formula they can provide. Can u do the math for an idiot like me?

Our team is this in 2012 after we pay Landry

C-Balkman1.7
F Amare 20
F melo 20
G Fields(my guess at a minimum 6 years 30MM)5mm
G Douglas 2mm

That's 49mm right there. then add 7 cap holds * 400k 2.8mm Cap number is 51.8

I get it. You're they guy on the street wearing the sandwich board yelling the "end is near". Do you think that anyone has forgotten all the silly suggestions you have made for trades on this board and all the bashing you have done about the players that Walsh has aquired? Just can't help yourself I guess....is life that miserable that you just can't enjoy what's in front of you on this team and see what happens? If the Knicks reversed this trade tomorrow - I'm sure you would find a way to bash it.

fishmike
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2/23/2011  9:47 AM
Knickoftime wrote:
fishmike wrote:you once offered our best players and 3 picks for Kwame Brown. The NBA is dominated by star players who impress their win on the game. You get it, your just in denial right now.

I'm sorry fishmike, I'm not big fan of Briggs. But there is NO WAY this is true. I refuse to believe it.

It is not possible that anyone with this sort of mark on their record would be here spouting criticisms with such unwavering conviction.

Why not? This was when Kwame was the #1 pick and had the tools to be dominating force in the league. Briggs was right to suggest such a draftic move, thats the point I'm trying to make, that getting an elite impact player is worth betting the house on, because thats the hardest thing to find in this league. Now you CAN win without it.. Detroit proved that, but you can not poopoo the value players of Melo's caliber bring.

Briggs is a good poster and if people get upset that he seems to have more leverage here with his wacky behavior than others its because he does. However few things spur more feverish debate than Briggs topics and love him or hate him he's great for the forum. The guy is all over the place and is totally ruled by emotion and his passion for the Knicks. Its always a fun ride.

I didnt like this trade either, but its done, Melo is here and this is no Marbury. Walsh didnt like to make this trade. Duh. Just like he didnt like trade Hill and a pick just to dump JJ, but he had to do it. He said from the start he wanted to have TWO stars here to build around. Give him his due... Amare + Melo after just 2 years of Isiah's mess is a good job. Lets see whats next.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Vmart
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2/23/2011  9:51 AM
BRIGGS is going to be the first to say he made a mistake and was wrong about the team, for a guy who is deeply into the stock market he is best when he has information. Right now there is no info about Melo and Amare playing together on the Knicks for him to relate to hence the panic. This is the guy who said take away the winning stretch away from the Knicks and they are a losing team and wanted Melo. The man is whimsical at best. Just look at how he turned on AR he went from facebook love affair with AR to kicking him to the curb.

I am so happy Melo is here, the Knicks are so much improved over the team they had before. How do you hate on having two stars on the team, I don't get it. The Knicks gave up players that are replaceable. They type of players the Knicks gave up are everywhere to be found I wouldn't be shocked if Shawne Williams and Brewer up their game to Chandler/Galo levels.

Finestrg
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2/23/2011  9:57 AM
foosballnick wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:when our cap number is atleast 50mm for 5 players when we are forced to pay Landry Field ATLEAST 5mm or more upfrontin 2012? forget the other max FA--that a nother line of BS--its not feasible. I dont even see how we improve much??? anyone else have a formula they can provide. Can u do the math for an idiot like me?

Our team is this in 2012 after we pay Landry

C-Balkman1.7
F Amare 20
F melo 20
G Fields(my guess at a minimum 6 years 30MM)5mm
G Douglas 2mm

That's 49mm right there. then add 7 cap holds * 400k 2.8mm Cap number is 51.8

I get it. You're they guy on the street wearing the sandwich board yelling the "end is near". Do you think that anyone has forgotten all the silly suggestions you have made for trades on this board and all the bashing you have done about the players that Walsh has aquired? Just can't help yourself I guess....is life that miserable that you just can't enjoy what's in front of you on this team and see what happens? If the Knicks reversed this trade tomorrow - I'm sure you would find a way to bash it.

Sorry but this is very funny.

BRIGGS
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2/23/2011  10:03 AM
Knickoftime wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:when our cap number is atleast 50mm for 5 players when we are forced to pay Landry Field ATLEAST 5mm or more upfrontin 2012? forget the other max FA--that a nother line of BS--its not feasible. I dont even see how we improve much??? anyone else have a formula they can provide. Can u do the math for an idiot like me?

I can do the math for an idiot like you, yes.

Summer of 2012

Carmelo Anthony - $19.9m

Wilson Chandler - due at least $9m
Danilo Gallinari - $12.6m cap hold.
Mosgov - $3.1m

Despite your self-acknowledged lack of math skills, I'm willing to bet with some pencil, paper and a few quality minutes of alone time, you can tell us which above figure is higher?

The notion that the Knicks would have cap flexibility beyond June 2012, and that the flexibility they did have was dependent on NOT resigning Chandler and Gallinari, was a myth, perpetuated by people, as you say, aren't very good at math. Unless you're putting all your eggs in the a sign-and-trade for Gallinari was going to net the Knicks a different, better player than Carmelo Anthony.

The fantasy of the Knicks "improving" to a greater degree than they did this week is and was a speculative fantasy built on the house of cards on the premise that everything was going to go exactly right for the Knicks.

That the key players would "develop" to actual be borderline superstar players and that their new contract did not outpace their production. But here's the problem.

It's established fact NBA players are on average are at the height of their value on their rookie contracts. Players get their first big contract in their early 20's, when competitive market forces require teams to pay a player not solely on production generated, but potential and projection built in, at which time on a ration of at least 2 to 1, if not 3 to 1 or even higher, a player is signed to what turns out to be an unattractive contract.

Usually only the very late bloomers wind up on attractive, cost-efficient contracts.

Another established fact: The 2011 free agent class (even with 'Melo) is historically weak, with perhaps the two parts most attractive to the Knicks (Jordan and Gasol) restricted free agents.

Since signing either of them to an offer would require renouncing Wilson Chandler, how astute a chance would you regard that be to take?

Or what unrestricted free agent are you confident enough to secure to let Chandler walk away?

So now I'm going to ask you to answer your own question, with a slightly different set of parameters.

With Chandler, Gallinari, Fields and Felton all due for decisions, which would likely involve significant raises in the next 17 months, how would the Knicks have improved?

I'll be happy to lend a hand with the math if you so require it.


Its pretty simple son.
With what we had we had 0 need for a max free agent in 2012 none. We already had a good full team and I dont buy carmelo to Nj for one second. We caved badly and will pay for it.
RIP Crushalot😞
fishmike
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2/23/2011  10:09 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:when our cap number is atleast 50mm for 5 players when we are forced to pay Landry Field ATLEAST 5mm or more upfrontin 2012? forget the other max FA--that a nother line of BS--its not feasible. I dont even see how we improve much??? anyone else have a formula they can provide. Can u do the math for an idiot like me?

I can do the math for an idiot like you, yes.

Summer of 2012

Carmelo Anthony - $19.9m

Wilson Chandler - due at least $9m
Danilo Gallinari - $12.6m cap hold.
Mosgov - $3.1m

Despite your self-acknowledged lack of math skills, I'm willing to bet with some pencil, paper and a few quality minutes of alone time, you can tell us which above figure is higher?

The notion that the Knicks would have cap flexibility beyond June 2012, and that the flexibility they did have was dependent on NOT resigning Chandler and Gallinari, was a myth, perpetuated by people, as you say, aren't very good at math. Unless you're putting all your eggs in the a sign-and-trade for Gallinari was going to net the Knicks a different, better player than Carmelo Anthony.

The fantasy of the Knicks "improving" to a greater degree than they did this week is and was a speculative fantasy built on the house of cards on the premise that everything was going to go exactly right for the Knicks.

That the key players would "develop" to actual be borderline superstar players and that their new contract did not outpace their production. But here's the problem.

It's established fact NBA players are on average are at the height of their value on their rookie contracts. Players get their first big contract in their early 20's, when competitive market forces require teams to pay a player not solely on production generated, but potential and projection built in, at which time on a ration of at least 2 to 1, if not 3 to 1 or even higher, a player is signed to what turns out to be an unattractive contract.

Usually only the very late bloomers wind up on attractive, cost-efficient contracts.

Another established fact: The 2011 free agent class (even with 'Melo) is historically weak, with perhaps the two parts most attractive to the Knicks (Jordan and Gasol) restricted free agents.

Since signing either of them to an offer would require renouncing Wilson Chandler, how astute a chance would you regard that be to take?

Or what unrestricted free agent are you confident enough to secure to let Chandler walk away?

So now I'm going to ask you to answer your own question, with a slightly different set of parameters.

With Chandler, Gallinari, Fields and Felton all due for decisions, which would likely involve significant raises in the next 17 months, how would the Knicks have improved?

I'll be happy to lend a hand with the math if you so require it.


Its pretty simple son.
With what we had we had 0 need for a max free agent in 2012 none. We already had a good full team and I dont buy carmelo to Nj for one second. We caved badly and will pay for it.
whether you buy it or not is irrelevent. Walsh believed it. Melo had agreed to sign there and believed thats where he was going (from his lips). What changed for the Nuggets was the Knicks deal saved them $18mm and the Nets didnt. The Msogov inclusion was to bridge the talent gap.

If you have paid any attention you should know by now that Wlahs has 10x the brains and guile that Dolan and Isiah have combined. You just spouting now and throwing your toys around the room

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Knickoftime
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2/23/2011  10:10 AM
BRIGGS wrote:Its pretty simple son.
With what we had we had 0 need for a max free agent in 2012 none. We already had a good full team and I dont buy carmelo to Nj for one second. We caved badly and will pay for it.

If your premise is the Knicks team of Monday was better than the Knicks team of today, and would eventually have gotten the Knicks farther into the playoffs, then just say that. The whole cap space, math premise is besides the point and does indeed make you look like you can't do math.

Are you always this obtuse and indirect?

AnubisADL
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2/23/2011  10:12 AM
Easy we get OJ Mayo. He is built for NY.

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martin
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2/23/2011  10:13 AM
AnubisADL wrote:Easy we get OJ Mayo. He is built for NY.

why do you want Mayo? Knicks got like a millions guards. They need defense and bigs.

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AnubisADL
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2/23/2011  10:20 AM
martin wrote:
AnubisADL wrote:Easy we get OJ Mayo. He is built for NY.

why do you want Mayo? Knicks got like a millions guards. They need defense and bigs.

Having guards and having good guards is a different. There is a reason teams like Boston and San Antonio dumped Walker and Mason respectively.

We need an upgrade at PG/SG.

NY Knicks - Retirement home for players and GMs
BRIGGS
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2/23/2011  10:20 AM
fishmike wrote:
Knickoftime wrote:
fishmike wrote:you once offered our best players and 3 picks for Kwame Brown. The NBA is dominated by star players who impress their win on the game. You get it, your just in denial right now.

I'm sorry fishmike, I'm not big fan of Briggs. But there is NO WAY this is true. I refuse to believe it.

It is not possible that anyone with this sort of mark on their record would be here spouting criticisms with such unwavering conviction.

Why not? This was when Kwame was the #1 pick and had the tools to be dominating force in the league. Briggs was right to suggest such a draftic move, thats the point I'm trying to make, that getting an elite impact player is worth betting the house on, because thats the hardest thing to find in this league. Now you CAN win without it.. Detroit proved that, but you can not poopoo the value players of Melo's caliber bring.

Briggs is a good poster and if people get upset that he seems to have more leverage here with his wacky behavior than others its because he does. However few things spur more feverish debate than Briggs topics and love him or hate him he's great for the forum. The guy is all over the place and is totally ruled by emotion and his passion for the Knicks. Its always a fun ride.

I didnt like this trade either, but its done, Melo is here and this is no Marbury. Walsh didnt like to make this trade. Duh. Just like he didnt like trade Hill and a pick just to dump JJ, but he had to do it. He said from the start he wanted to have TWO stars here to build around. Give him his due... Amare + Melo after just 2 years of Isiah's mess is a good job. Lets see whats next.

fishmike--someone picked kwame Brown #1

I also said pick Amare Andrew Bynum carlos Boozer mike redd Dejuan Blair etc.... was I wrong when i posted 500 time shere to draft bynum or 300 time to draft amare stoudemire on nkybasketball.com? or reckognize guys like dwayne wade chris bosh chirs kaman befor anyone sle did here? identify SECOND round picks like boozer redd blair with the ability to draft them and others I have hit on???? come on lets be honest thats a pretty good record for a regular joe. I said last year to guarantee jimmer freddet our 32--hiow does that look now???now he is top 10 pick fishmike--I dont want to on --everyone makes dumb nba trade speculation--but no one here is even close to picking out guys for the draft over the years--be fair and honest. ive made mistakes with marcus Williams morris almond but look at that list of nBA stars that I picked from both rounds????

RIP Crushalot😞
knickstorrents
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2/23/2011  10:23 AM
BigSm00th wrote:miami has 60+ million locked up with their big 3. what will happen to those guys? what about LA with kobe getting 30 million at the end of his contract. is he going to be 80% of the lakers' payroll? no.

This is a fallacy.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/miami.htm

First year salaries are 14.5mm per. And guess what - LBJ and Wade are better than Melo!

Rose is not the answer.
Knickoftime
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2/23/2011  10:25 AM
BRIGGS wrote:everyone makes dumb nba trade speculation

Yes, this is true.

Which is why arguing with absolute certainty that your current conclusions are indisputably right is sillytime.

Ill give anyone a chance to explin to this board--exactly how do we improve the team

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