CrushAlot wrote:

firefly wrote:As a serious soccer fan with a proper understanding of what real rivalries are, some of the comments on this thread make me want to vomit.

I have a hard time with anyone telling me whether I know what a rivalry is. I know a bit about soccer but it isn't my favorite sport. I am not sure why you posted this on this forum.

Happy to explain. Just glad to get back to a topic, any topic.

Markji

Having Gallo in the area would be fine with me, although I have to say that with no cable and League Pass Broadband, I have more of a chance of seeing him if he is playing for Denver than the Nyets.
Paladin, I agree with you. I am getting more intrigued with the Nets, especially when they move to Brooklyn. I'll always be a Knicks fan, but I too loved watching Dr J play. Nets could be interesting as a #2 team to root for. Love to have Gallo play there.

Paladin55
I would love to have him back, but I would not mind him playing for the Nyets.
Unlike some around here, I was a pretty big NY Nets fan when they were in the ABA, and followed them from their Rick Barry years to that terrible time when they joined the NBA and got rid of Dr. J.

Having Gallo in the area would be fine with me, although I have to say that with no cable and League Pass Broadband, I have more of a chance of seeing him if he is playing for Denver than the Nyets.

Here are two examples from people whos opinion and debating skills I amire greatly on the board. And yet, one seems delighted to be able to follow the Nets, while the other seems to have originally been a Nets fan before switching to the Knicks. This, notwithstanding Nalods glorious, Shakespearean love affair with the Nets and Prokhorov in particular, surprises me greatly. I find it highly unpleasant. When you are a fan of that team, you support them. You pay money to watch them play, you care about their performance, you exult when they do well and shed tears when they do not. The essence of fan-dom, the way I always understood it, is you stand, shoulder to shoulder with thousands of other fans who share the same love, the same dreams. You can b!tch about your management, you can complain about your players oryour coach. But you do it because you care about your team. Because you love them. And yet theres a team not 50 miles from MSG, whos owner has publicly stated that he deliberately tried to sabotage the team you love and people are finding that favourable?!?!

Take Boston as another example. Or Chicago. Teams who in the past have striven with every ouch of sinew to belitte and crush your team. You can respect them if you want. Respect of a opponant is important. But how can you call yourself a fan and say you look forward to following your greatest rival and indeed to quote Markj "root for them"?!?!

Its just incomprehensible to me. Like I said, maybe its a cultural thing.

rp wrote:

firefly wrote:

orangeblobman wrote:

firefly wrote:

orangeblobman wrote:

firefly wrote:

orangeblobman wrote:

firefly wrote:As a serious soccer fan with a proper understanding of what real rivalries are, some of the comments on this thread make me want to vomit.

You make me vomit.

You don't understand that European club fans have a different relationship with their team. In America, it's much more detached, much looser.

It's not that serious.

We don't riot and kill each other if our team loses. It's much more fun here.

If that's the way you see it you should call a spade a spade and call yourself a basketball watcher. Fan means something else. I would rather stab myself in the eye with a fork than wish well on Man City or Arsenal and there's people on this thread finding it hard to breath with all the Net and Prokhorov ass in their faces.

Whatever. Maybe it's just a cultural thing. Shame though. I thought a basketball forum would be full of fans not fair-weather followers and glory-hunters.

It's a shame you don't share that same passion for what's going on in your country.

Bread and circuses.

Not that serious, brah.

Are you being serious? What the hell do you know about what I do for my country? Or in fact about where my passions lie? While you were enjoying your stay at Mr Presidents Pleasure, I was serving my country on the streets of London, but whatever I dont expect you to understand that. Still, I dont see what that has to do with my annoyance at some peoples instant-gratification stance on team "fan"-dom. You dont go and be a fan of the direct, closest rival to your team. You just dont, unless your not a fan.

And bread and circuses? Excuse me if I have no clue what you're on about.

You're just a mess, aren't you?

Seriously dude, the fu$k is wrong with you? You want to antagonize me, antagonize me. But since you seem not to know sh!t from shinola, maybe go away, arrange a complete sentance and when youre done in a couple hours, give it a go. Ill be waiting. Ass.

If you were mature enough you would respect people for their own opinion as they would for yours.

Not really sure why you want to get involved in this RP, but thats cool. Follow the thread. I gave my opinion as to what I thought the definition of a fan should be. OBM responded, in his own inimitable fasion that he disagreed. Then read my post thereafter. I further clarified my opinion. I also added a caveat that maybe its a cultural thing. Then OBM decided to go....OBM. And thats went things unravelled. I have no concerns about my levels of maturity. But maybe I shouldnt let myself be antagonized by idiots in the future.

firefly wrote:

rp wrote:

firefly wrote:

orangeblobman wrote:

firefly wrote:

orangeblobman wrote:

firefly wrote:

orangeblobman wrote:

firefly wrote:As a serious soccer fan with a proper understanding of what real rivalries are, some of the comments on this thread make me want to vomit.

You make me vomit.

You don't understand that European club fans have a different relationship with their team. In America, it's much more detached, much looser.

It's not that serious.

We don't riot and kill each other if our team loses. It's much more fun here.

If that's the way you see it you should call a spade a spade and call yourself a basketball watcher. Fan means something else. I would rather stab myself in the eye with a fork than wish well on Man City or Arsenal and there's people on this thread finding it hard to breath with all the Net and Prokhorov ass in their faces.

Whatever. Maybe it's just a cultural thing. Shame though. I thought a basketball forum would be full of fans not fair-weather followers and glory-hunters.

It's a shame you don't share that same passion for what's going on in your country.

Bread and circuses.

Not that serious, brah.

Are you being serious? What the hell do you know about what I do for my country? Or in fact about where my passions lie? While you were enjoying your stay at Mr Presidents Pleasure, I was serving my country on the streets of London, but whatever I dont expect you to understand that. Still, I dont see what that has to do with my annoyance at some peoples instant-gratification stance on team "fan"-dom. You dont go and be a fan of the direct, closest rival to your team. You just dont, unless your not a fan.

And bread and circuses? Excuse me if I have no clue what you're on about.

You're just a mess, aren't you?

Seriously dude, the fu$k is wrong with you? You want to antagonize me, antagonize me. But since you seem not to know sh!t from shinola, maybe go away, arrange a complete sentance and when youre done in a couple hours, give it a go. Ill be waiting. Ass.

If you were mature enough you would respect people for their own opinion as they would for yours.

Not really sure why you want to get involved in this RP, but thats cool. Follow the thread. I gave my opinion as to what I thought the definition of a fan should be. OBM responded, in his own inimitable fasion that he disagreed. Then read my post thereafter. I further clarified my opinion. I also added a caveat that maybe its a cultural thing. Then OBM decided to go....OBM. And thats went things unravelled. I have no concerns about my levels of maturity. But maybe I shouldnt let myself be antagonized by idiots in the future.

I respect anyone opinion whether I agree or not and you don't seem to get that.

So, I urge all people to make merry with such opinions, but also to know in your heart, that your are handing in your Knicks card. DJ did it. Hes not ashamed. He finally had enough. I respect that. I dont agree with it, but I respect it. But he no longer calls himself a Knicks fan, and in my opinion, nor should anyone who goes and "roots" for a the Knicks' greatest, most local rival.

rp wrote:

firefly wrote:rp, Im glad you respect peoples opinions. So do I. I have an opinion about what I consider to be a fan. If someone wishes to root for the Nets, good for them , say I!! If someone wants to opine that the Nets owner is the greatest gift to mankind since man looked at the bright orangy flickering thing and thought "Hang on an minute..." then I salute them for having that opinion. But my opinion is that those opinions are not concurrent to calling yourself a Knicks fan. I respect all opinion. But I am also opining that that state of mind is not a fan.

So, I urge all people to make merry with such opinions, but also to know in your heart, that your are handing in your Knicks card. DJ did it. Hes not ashamed. He finally had enough. I respect that. I dont agree with it, but I respect it. But he no longer calls himself a Knicks fan, and in my opinion, nor should anyone who goes and "roots" for a the Knicks' greatest, most local rival.

Don't get me wrong but my points was more toward your original post of "vomit". I don't really care much what you two were arguing about but you brought the fight to the forum with the comment and it seemed liked you wanted someone to fire back at you and you didn't seem to handle it.

I appreciate that. You might be right that my original post was looking for a response. Not smart of me, but we all make mistakes. When OBM responded, I didnt lose it, I didnt flame him, I didnt go pear-shaped. I handled it just fine. Where I stopped handling it just fine was when OBM decided to infer something about me not caring about my country. There are some people on this forum I would take that from. Hell, 90% of the forum can slag me off and Im happy to chuckle about it 5 minutes later. But I refuse to allow some backwater new-age stoner to lecture me on what I do for my country. He's funny, I grant him that. Enjoyable to have around, cuz you never know what off the wall thing hes going to come up with next. I enjoy having him around, kinda like you enjoy having the village idiot around. But ask anyone, OBM sometimes forgets his boundaries. So he moves off for a little and the cycle starts again. Noone loses.

Apologies to anyone who I offended with my losing it.

firefly wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

firefly wrote:As a serious soccer fan with a proper understanding of what real rivalries are, some of the comments on this thread make me want to vomit.

I have a hard time with anyone telling me whether I know what a rivalry is. I know a bit about soccer but it isn't my favorite sport. I am not sure why you posted this on this forum.

Happy to explain. Just glad to get back to a topic, any topic.

Markji

Having Gallo in the area would be fine with me, although I have to say that with no cable and League Pass Broadband, I have more of a chance of seeing him if he is playing for Denver than the Nyets.
Paladin, I agree with you. I am getting more intrigued with the Nets, especially when they move to Brooklyn. I'll always be a Knicks fan, but I too loved watching Dr J play. Nets could be interesting as a #2 team to root for. Love to have Gallo play there.

Paladin55
I would love to have him back, but I would not mind him playing for the Nyets.
Unlike some around here, I was a pretty big NY Nets fan when they were in the ABA, and followed them from their Rick Barry years to that terrible time when they joined the NBA and got rid of Dr. J.

Having Gallo in the area would be fine with me, although I have to say that with no cable and League Pass Broadband, I have more of a chance of seeing him if he is playing for Denver than the Nyets.

Here are two examples from people whos opinion and debating skills I amire greatly on the board. And yet, one seems delighted to be able to follow the Nets, while the other seems to have originally been a Nets fan before switching to the Knicks. This, notwithstanding Nalods glorious, Shakespearean love affair with the Nets and Prokhorov in particular, surprises me greatly. I find it highly unpleasant. When you are a fan of that team, you support them. You pay money to watch them play, you care about their performance, you exult when they do well and shed tears when they do not. The essence of fan-dom, the way I always understood it, is you stand, shoulder to shoulder with thousands of other fans who share the same love, the same dreams. You can b!tch about your management, you can complain about your players oryour coach. But you do it because you care about your team. Because you love them. And yet theres a team not 50 miles from MSG, whos owner has publicly stated that he deliberately tried to sabotage the team you love and people are finding that favourable?!?!

Take Boston as another example. Or Chicago. Teams who in the past have striven with every ouch of sinew to belitte and crush your team. You can respect them if you want. Respect of a opponant is important. But how can you call yourself a fan and say you look forward to following your greatest rival and indeed to quote Markj "root for them"?!?!

Its just incomprehensible to me. Like I said, maybe its a cultural thing.

Shakespearean? Maybe Tolstoyean?

Ok, Getting pissed with 50 of my closest tarter encrusted toothless friends at the pub shirtless with body paint then in mob fashion march to the stadium singing rah rah songs and beating the African street vendors trying to sell knock off Spade Handbags to tourists en route to watch a "futball" match and stabbing the rivals fans in the ass with a shank because he said your favorite player looks like your sister is some kind of tribal male bonding experience then have the Phuch at it.

The comedy of fan worship portrayed as being a true fan is a pathetic exercise of male phallic insecurity and using the mob to collectively gains self esteem.

Willing to stand shoulder to shoulder with your best mates while you watch others do battle is quite a story. Stand shoulder to shoulder with your redcoat mate while you load your muskets to defend the kings profit is honorable, but to watch David Beckham with a mob of man love is not.

Share the same dreams, cry or exult? ARe you serious?

Nalod wrote:

firefly wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

firefly wrote:As a serious soccer fan with a proper understanding of what real rivalries are, some of the comments on this thread make me want to vomit.

I have a hard time with anyone telling me whether I know what a rivalry is. I know a bit about soccer but it isn't my favorite sport. I am not sure why you posted this on this forum.

Happy to explain. Just glad to get back to a topic, any topic.

Markji

Having Gallo in the area would be fine with me, although I have to say that with no cable and League Pass Broadband, I have more of a chance of seeing him if he is playing for Denver than the Nyets.
Paladin, I agree with you. I am getting more intrigued with the Nets, especially when they move to Brooklyn. I'll always be a Knicks fan, but I too loved watching Dr J play. Nets could be interesting as a #2 team to root for. Love to have Gallo play there.

Paladin55
I would love to have him back, but I would not mind him playing for the Nyets.
Unlike some around here, I was a pretty big NY Nets fan when they were in the ABA, and followed them from their Rick Barry years to that terrible time when they joined the NBA and got rid of Dr. J.

Having Gallo in the area would be fine with me, although I have to say that with no cable and League Pass Broadband, I have more of a chance of seeing him if he is playing for Denver than the Nyets.

Here are two examples from people whos opinion and debating skills I amire greatly on the board. And yet, one seems delighted to be able to follow the Nets, while the other seems to have originally been a Nets fan before switching to the Knicks. This, notwithstanding Nalods glorious, Shakespearean love affair with the Nets and Prokhorov in particular, surprises me greatly. I find it highly unpleasant. When you are a fan of that team, you support them. You pay money to watch them play, you care about their performance, you exult when they do well and shed tears when they do not. The essence of fan-dom, the way I always understood it, is you stand, shoulder to shoulder with thousands of other fans who share the same love, the same dreams. You can b!tch about your management, you can complain about your players oryour coach. But you do it because you care about your team. Because you love them. And yet theres a team not 50 miles from MSG, whos owner has publicly stated that he deliberately tried to sabotage the team you love and people are finding that favourable?!?!

Take Boston as another example. Or Chicago. Teams who in the past have striven with every ouch of sinew to belitte and crush your team. You can respect them if you want. Respect of a opponant is important. But how can you call yourself a fan and say you look forward to following your greatest rival and indeed to quote Markj "root for them"?!?!

Its just incomprehensible to me. Like I said, maybe its a cultural thing.

Shakespearean? Maybe Tolstoyean?

Ok, Getting pissed with 50 of my closest tarter encrusted toothless friends at the pub shirtless with body paint then in mob fashion march to the stadium singing rah rah songs and beating the African street vendors trying to sell knock off Spade Handbags to tourists en route to watch a "futball" match and stabbing the rivals fans in the ass with a shank because he said your favorite player looks like your sister is some kind of tribal male bonding experience then have the Phuch at it.

The comedy of fan worship portrayed as being a true fan is a pathetic exercise of male phallic insecurity and using the mob to collectively gains self esteem.

Willing to stand shoulder to shoulder with your best mates while you watch others do battle is quite a story. Stand shoulder to shoulder with your redcoat mate while you load your muskets to defend the kings profit is honorable, but to watch David Beckham with a mob of man love is not.

Share the same dreams, cry or exult? ARe you serious?

I expected more from you Nalod. If that's what you think my definition of a fan is, you obviously know nothing about football. The thugs you speak of are no fans. They admit publically that they feel no affinity to the team and simply use it as an excuse to get wasted and hit other people. Calling them the quintessential football fan is like saying all NBA players are 5"5 because Earl Boykins is. Or saying everyone involved in NBA management are dumb as rocks billionaires who nothing about sport because Dolan owns the Knicks. But have at it. Get your cheap cracks in. Hope they make you feel better in Brooklyn with your BFF, the Russian all Nets fans hate because he talked a great game and got them Travis Outlaw. What fun.

Nalod wrote:

firefly wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

firefly wrote:As a serious soccer fan with a proper understanding of what real rivalries are, some of the comments on this thread make me want to vomit.

I have a hard time with anyone telling me whether I know what a rivalry is. I know a bit about soccer but it isn't my favorite sport. I am not sure why you posted this on this forum.

Happy to explain. Just glad to get back to a topic, any topic.

Markji

Having Gallo in the area would be fine with me, although I have to say that with no cable and League Pass Broadband, I have more of a chance of seeing him if he is playing for Denver than the Nyets.
Paladin, I agree with you. I am getting more intrigued with the Nets, especially when they move to Brooklyn. I'll always be a Knicks fan, but I too loved watching Dr J play. Nets could be interesting as a #2 team to root for. Love to have Gallo play there.

Paladin55
I would love to have him back, but I would not mind him playing for the Nyets.
Unlike some around here, I was a pretty big NY Nets fan when they were in the ABA, and followed them from their Rick Barry years to that terrible time when they joined the NBA and got rid of Dr. J.

Having Gallo in the area would be fine with me, although I have to say that with no cable and League Pass Broadband, I have more of a chance of seeing him if he is playing for Denver than the Nyets.

Here are two examples from people whos opinion and debating skills I amire greatly on the board. And yet, one seems delighted to be able to follow the Nets, while the other seems to have originally been a Nets fan before switching to the Knicks. This, notwithstanding Nalods glorious, Shakespearean love affair with the Nets and Prokhorov in particular, surprises me greatly. I find it highly unpleasant. When you are a fan of that team, you support them. You pay money to watch them play, you care about their performance, you exult when they do well and shed tears when they do not. The essence of fan-dom, the way I always understood it, is you stand, shoulder to shoulder with thousands of other fans who share the same love, the same dreams. You can b!tch about your management, you can complain about your players oryour coach. But you do it because you care about your team. Because you love them. And yet theres a team not 50 miles from MSG, whos owner has publicly stated that he deliberately tried to sabotage the team you love and people are finding that favourable?!?!

Take Boston as another example. Or Chicago. Teams who in the past have striven with every ouch of sinew to belitte and crush your team. You can respect them if you want. Respect of a opponant is important. But how can you call yourself a fan and say you look forward to following your greatest rival and indeed to quote Markj "root for them"?!?!

Its just incomprehensible to me. Like I said, maybe its a cultural thing.

Shakespearean? Maybe Tolstoyean?

Ok, Getting pissed with 50 of my closest tarter encrusted toothless friends at the pub shirtless with body paint then in mob fashion march to the stadium singing rah rah songs and beating the African street vendors trying to sell knock off Spade Handbags to tourists en route to watch a "futball" match and stabbing the rivals fans in the ass with a shank because he said your favorite player looks like your sister is some kind of tribal male bonding experience then have the Phuch at it.

The comedy of fan worship portrayed as being a true fan is a pathetic exercise of male phallic insecurity and using the mob to collectively gains self esteem.

Willing to stand shoulder to shoulder with your best mates while you watch others do battle is quite a story. Stand shoulder to shoulder with your redcoat mate while you load your muskets to defend the kings profit is honorable, but to watch David Beckham with a mob of man love is not.

Share the same dreams, cry or exult? ARe you serious?

firefly wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:

Markji wrote:Firefly, I appreciate what you said about me in the positive and I want to try to explain what you feel kind of angry about-that I might root for the Nets. I don't now and that statement was mostly out of frustration with Dolan. He is a stupid negotiator and a very poor manager. Prokorov, on the other hand, I'm beginning to respect as a manager/self-made, street smarts businessman/negotiator. But I am still a Knicks fan.

I've been a Knicks fan since 1961 and have always rooted for them. I find no problem following/rooting for another team as well. I've lived all over the U.S. and all over the world. When I move to a new place I might start following the local team, especially if local friends are into them. However, when they play one of my NY teams, I root for the NY team. I was a Mets fan growing up and now root for both the Yankees and Mets; but always the Mets over the Yankees. I don't have any problem with it even though the Mets don't win as often.

So I am not switching allegiances. But I don't hate the Nets.

I hope this isn't too much preaching. I just read it over and it does seem like that to me. I wanted to convey a feeling, so please take it in a positive way.

Yup...

I also root for the NY Giants, even though I was literally born a "Jets" fan and saw them play as the Titans in the Polo Grounds.

If they play together, I root for the Jets, but I, and my family, also went to Giant games in the 60's (I actually got to see them in Yankee Stadium, and my father was at the famous sudden death game vs the Colts at the Stadium), and I have always rooted for both teams.

Wish the Nets were still playing in Nassau, and look forward to them playing in Brooklyn, as it will be great for NY basketball.

I think we've hit an interesting point here. From what your saying, there seems to be a great deal of cache in supporting your home town in American sports. That would explain why a move to Brooklyn for the Nets would make Knick fans root for them. In England it's very different. There are 5-6 London clubs in the Premier League. You tend to support the one you live/lived closest too. The surrounding clubs were always the arch-enemy because you tend to see their fans most often on the street and of course any victory over your team would be well and truly rubbed in, with extra egg. I'm a Manchester United fan and there is a feeling of always havingto be better then you local rivals, in our case Manchester City. Whenever United fails, City rubs their hands in glee and vice versa.

I think that's where the differences come from. In soccer it's impossible to say "I root for all London clubs" or all Manchester clubs because the fanbase is so fundamentally different as to preclude any possibility of being a fan if both. Sounds like it the US it's different, and cities come more into it where any club in any given area is deemed worth of support. I can respect that.

Defining "real fan" is impossible.

The Nets once played on Long Island and as a kid would go to the games when they were an elite team in the ABA with the Great Dr. J. Tickets were cheap and the arena was 10min away. When the league merged the NEts bolted to New Jersey and it was about the knicks for many of us.

I get the territorial thing and do get the passion for soccer. I don't have it for any team.

The closest thing to that kind of rabid fan thing is found in NHL hockey. First pro sport in US where fans wore jerseys ("Colors"!) and pack arenas with more enthusiasm than NBA. NHL does not translate on Television like american football and basketball. But NHL are a rabid group. Canadian Junior leagues are small towns that are very territorial. I saw Sidney Crosby play as a 16 year old in Quebec City and they had 16,000 in the arena for Juniors! Amazing!