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Interesting take from Nate Silver of Five Thirty Eight
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misterearl
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2/22/2011  2:24 PM
Being There

Chauncey The Lead Guard

Palladin55 - another angle from Rob Mahoney, NYT

"The biggest difference is New York’s lack of isolation play. According to Synergy Sports Technology, a whopping 20.4 percent of the Nuggets’ offensive possessions come in isolation, which is substantially more than the 13.5 percent of the Knicks’ offense that isolations constitute. Anthony and Billups are among Denver’s most regular iso candidates, but they will have far fewer opportunities to go one-on-one in New York. D’Antoni’s system relies much more on pick-and-roll play and dribble hand-offs than isolation sequences, which creates a far different offensive flow than Anthony and Billups are accustomed.

The pick-and-roll is an elemental part of New York’s offense, and Billups should thrive in setting up his Knicks teammates or scoring on his own. This is one area in which Billups is far more dangerous than Felton; Billups is not only a more consistently effective playmaker in pick-and-roll situations, he’s also a significantly better shooter (particularly from 3-point range), and is excellent at getting to the line.

But there is considerable caveat in Billups’s pick-and-roll performance: during his time in Denver, Billups did not seem all that willing to run the pick-and-roll. He and Anthony were far more content to iso at the top of the key or on the wing than execute the two-man game, and though the Nuggets were still a very effective offensive team, that accomplishment came despite the inherent limitations of their play selection.

The acquisitions of Anthony and Billups are hardly a perfect marriage between personnel and scheme, but the obvious hope in New York is that talent wins out. There’s no question that Anthony and Billups both can be tremendously effective offensive players, but the uncertainty in this deal stems from whether their individual success can coincide with the successful execution of the Knicks’ offense."

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nixluva
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2/22/2011  2:32 PM
Billups is an excellent shooter and he's smart. He's also played in a D'Antoni designed offense with the Olympic team. Mike is not so inflexible that he can't find a way to work with top talents. Remember he was helping to set the offense for the Olympic team and there were all kinds of talents on that squad.
Paladin55
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2/22/2011  2:38 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
Paladin55 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Paladin55 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
Paladin55 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:If this article shows anything its that the Knicks need an adult to stay on and tackle these issues. Miami got some vets to take less to play with their big 3, Melo and Stat should try to do the same and help Walsh recruit players.

Yeah, Melo will have to recruit a third star by telling him he should not be greedy like he (Melo) was, and should take a salary cut to play with Amare and himself.

Who said anything about a star? I said vets like the Heat acquired. Past their prime but still able to contribute and help spread the floor. Too early to be talking about a third star.


Geez, I thought we were already looking toward Williams or Paul.

We may not be able to offer anyone of value anything until the dust of the new CBA settles and we know what we can or cannot afford cap-wise.

You will need AT LEAST a 2nd tier PG after next season, and a very good defensive oriented center. You may also have to give up Fields to get some of these things, and will therefore need a SG who can also play D, as well as shoot from distance.

Everything will be determined by the fact that our two stars are defensively challenged and they basically have the same game.

Melo can operate from further away from the bucket. He can also put the ball on the floor better than Stat and pass better. This is an upgrade more than it is a duplication. I agree that other needs have to be addressed which is why I suggested that Melo and Stat help recruit vets.


I don't think he will be as bullheaded as Amare has been sometimes, and he has had more experience shooting 3's, but Anthony's impact is diminished considerably if you have him operating too far beyond midrange, and his rebounding ability will be diminished as he moves further from the basket.

Essentially, he, like Amare, is a midrange isolation player, and the McAdoo/Haywood (he was not the same player he once was when we had him though) comparison is not that far off, unfortunately, and they were both better rebounders than the two guys we have now.

The problem is that the defensive deficiencies of Amare and Melo mean that the other players we look at to put along side of them have to be defensive stalwarts- we can't afford to take on a defensively challenged center, PG, or whatever.

When you call Melo that it makes it sound like that's all there is to his game. He can hit the three or move in and take his man off the dribble, that's range as far as I'm concerned. He can hurt you from anywhere. Melo is a good rebounder for his position, Stat is the one who needs to work on his rebounding.

I agree about adding better defenders, they were going to have to the way the knicks were giving up points, and its the only way to go deep in the playoffs. We have addressed a major problem with our offense, we have a player who can't be shut down the way almost every other player in this league can. Our defense was already among the worst in the league so its not like we traded it away.

I agree with your recommendations, its hopefully what Walsh is working on, this isn't over, we shouldn't treat this deal like it will be the only move that will be made to improve this team, hopefully by Walsh.


The real issue for the teams future is how many pieces we can add.

Other than the 3's, and I think Amare could actually hit them if he had to, there is little difference in their offensive games. I see Melo as being a more fluid player, but essentially, there is little difference in terms of where and how they do their damage.

I will be interested to see how the ball is divided between them, since last I heard there is only one of them, but these are two volume-type midrange and in offensive talents who are best in isolation, play minimal D.

Unfortunately, we don't have a guy like Garnett to kick Melo in the ass if he does not play D, which I sure KG did with a guy like Pierce, who was never known for playing D, but seemed to be a lot better, IMO, after Garnett showed up.

And we had "a major problem with our offense?" A "major problem??"

Our major problem was D and rebounding, and we are probably worse off for both now.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
Paladin55
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2/22/2011  2:40 PM
nixluva wrote:Billups is an excellent shooter and he's smart. He's also played in a D'Antoni designed offense with the Olympic team. Mike is not so inflexible that he can't find a way to work with top talents. Remember he was helping to set the offense for the Olympic team and there were all kinds of talents on that squad.

I have always wondered what he thought about Anthony as a player from having worked with him before.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
OldFan
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2/22/2011  2:45 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
Paladin55 wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:If this article shows anything its that the Knicks need an adult to stay on and tackle these issues. Miami got some vets to take less to play with their big 3, Melo and Stat should try to do the same and help Walsh recruit players.

Yeah, Melo will have to recruit a third star by telling him he should not be greedy like he (Melo) was, and should take a salary cut to play with Amare and himself.

Who said anything about a star? I said vets like the Heat acquired. Past their prime but still able to contribute and help spread the floor. Too early to be talking about a third star.

Did you read the article? The vets the heat acquired around the big 3 are contributing NEGATIVE wins. The heat are winning because their big 3 are so far above average. According to the article even if the Knicks added a third star they would not come close to the Heat. I'm not saying the artical is correct or not. But the statement starting with "IF this article shows anything..." is completely off base as the article says the opposite of what you're saying.

FistOfOakley
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2/22/2011  3:02 PM
he used to write and do a lot of great work for baseballprospectus.com in it's earlier years. he has since left.

i also played poker against him one time in vegas.

Paladin55
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2/22/2011  3:12 PM
FistOfOakley wrote:he used to write and do a lot of great work for baseballprospectus.com in it's earlier years. he has since left.

i also played poker against him one time in vegas.


So what the hell... How did you do against him and did he use his statistical skills to his benefit?
No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
Interesting take from Nate Silver of Five Thirty Eight

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