GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:The Knicks are like Miami now. Good in the sense that there is tremendous star power. Bad in the sense that we're still weak up front and a little weak at PG. But again, those pieces will come around.

saying this is the same thing as people saying "don't worry. We don't need Melo. Gallo/Mozgov/TD will develop"

We're a poor man's version of Miami.

Lebron/Wade/Bosh are better than Billups/Melo/Amare. Not even close.

Hey at least we're a lot closer than we were before. I think we can stack up pretty well against them. The Heat are just insanely talented. DWade is bad enough, but then to put Lebron with him is just criminal. I can't hate on the Knicks for not being as talented. HOW CAN THEY BE? We just have to keep building this team as best we can.

Knickoftime wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:
Lebron/Wade/Bosh are better than Billups/Melo/Amare. Not even close.

Lebron/Wade/Bosh are better than Billups/Melo/Amare are better than Felton/Gallo/Amare. Not even close.

For this season:

Lebron/Wade/Bosh: $43,500,000
Billups/Melo/Amare: $46,785,854
Felton/Gallo/Amare: $27,291,171

For next season:

Lebron/Wade/Bosh: $47,557,000
Billups/Melo/Amare: $52,353,277
Felton/Gallo/Amare: 29,907,887

Doesn't really make sense to put Felton/Gallo/Amare into the conversation does it?

Going to be pretty interesting to see how Miami deals with a lower cap. Knicks as well.

I like Melo as a Knick but think people are being a bit overly optimistic thinking that building a legit championship contending team (vs. a 2nd round doormat like Atlanta) is a guarantee just because we have Melo/Amare. It's not going to be a cakewalk to just get 3 high priced players and just fill in the gaps. Time will tell if it made the most sense for the Knicks to try to do things the Miami way or the Pistons way.

Other details:

Lebron/Wade/Bosh

2012/13: $52,114,000
2013/14: $56,671,000
2014/15: 61,228,000
2015/16: $65,785,000

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:Lebron/Wade/Bosh: $43,500,000
Billups/Melo/Amare: $46,785,854
Felton/Gallo/Amare: $27,291,171

Doesn't really make sense to put Felton/Gallo/Amare into the conversation does it?

Until the NBA ammed=nds their rules to begin awarding teams wins based on cost-efficiency, it makes perfect sense.

Knicks are better today than they were yesterday.

Other details:

Lebron/Wade/Bosh

Next Season: $47,557,000
2012/13: $52,114,000
2013/14: $56,671,000
2014/15: 61,228,000
2015/16: $65,785,000

Billups/Melo/Amare

Next Season: $47,557,000

Felton/Gallo/Amare

Next season: 29,907,887

All this mean is IF the Knicks renounced Chandler this off season, they'd would have had a few cap dollars to spend.

Who's you want to spend it on?

Renounce Chandler to sign Jordan or Gasol to an offer sheet their teams could match?

Gimme specifics, what are you doing with the extra cash you correctly identified above?

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:The challenge will be building the roster around two scorers who dont really defend and are average rebounders at best.

One of them is the nest rebounding small forward in the game you mean.

This year will be MDA's fault for Diva's lack of defense and the Knicks getting outrebounded every game (after all we know he only cares about shooting 3's)

Rebound rate:

Anthony: 12.5

Mozgoz: 12.8

Williams: 18.1

Want to try again?

Try again at what? We went from a poor rebounding team to worse.

Lucky we can still blame the coach when we get beat on the boards every night.

Melo's an average rebounder. As "superstars" go his rebounding is not elite. He's a career 6 rebs per game and he's had like 4-5 monster rebounding games this year. He's also an average defender.

I'm looking forward to Diva showing the world he was worth another team's roster come playoff time.

JrZyHuStLa wrote:

nixluva wrote:

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:

JrZyHuStLa wrote:The Knicks are like Miami now. Good in the sense that there is tremendous star power. Bad in the sense that we're still weak up front and a little weak at PG. But again, those pieces will come around.

saying this is the same thing as people saying "don't worry. We don't need Melo. Gallo/Mozgov/TD will develop"

We're a poor man's version of Miami.

Lebron/Wade/Bosh are better than Billups/Melo/Amare. Not even close.

Hey at least we're a lot closer than we were before. I think we can stack up pretty well against them. The Heat are just insanely talented. DWade is bad enough, but then to put Lebron with him is just criminal. I can't hate on the Knicks for not being as talented. HOW CAN THEY BE? We just have to keep building this team as best we can.

I agree. The world only has one Lebron and one Wade (ok, so maybe there's a guy on the Lakers that can do what he does), you're not going to get players on that level simply because they don't exist.

But we certainly are a better team now.

oh yeah. mos def. but like i wrote above donnie or whoever is going to have a tough time finding those other pieces now. if anybody were to tell an NBA GM "oh don't worry the pieces will come", I'm sure they'd get an earful about it being hard to even find quality, cost effective, role players.

SupremeCommander wrote:the same could have been said about the old roster. and which team would be more appealing to Chris "Wedding Toast" Paul?

Very true. With the old roster we would've had a much bigger budget to add talent but no giant talent in Melo already on the roster. If CP3's wedding toast was serious, he better be ready to take a paycut. Unless he wasn't really thinking about salary cap implications/new CBA.

I mean..how many of today's players do you think have a semi-competent understanding of the cap?

fishmike wrote:
to bad Diva cant play 3 positions at once.

Ah, the namecalling has begun.

Good show. Yes, your argument is greatly enhanced by your cleverness.

And Diva doesn't have to play all three positions. he rebounds better than the guy he's replacing in the starting line-up.

A frontcourt player the Knicks acquired rebounds at a considerably higher rate than Mozgov.

You're going to have to explain how this equates to becoming an inferior rebounding team than the one they were yesterday?

Melo's an average rebounder. As "superstars" go his rebounding is not elite. He's a career 6 rebs per game and he's had like 4-5 monster rebounding games this year.

Now you're just making things up.

Diva is the best rebounding elite small forward in the game.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?position=sf&sort=reboundRate&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fhollinger%2fstatistics%3fposition%3dsf%26sort%3dreboundRate

Only Dominic McGuire, Shawn Marion and Matt Barnes rebounds more than Diva at a higher rate.

Diva outrebounds (some by a wide margin) Lebron James, Kevin Durant, Paul Pierce, and Rudy Gay.

Need I got on?

Okay, I will...

And Danny Granger, Tayshaun Prince, Andrei Kirilenko, Wilson Chander, and Danillo Gallinari.

And let's thrown in Dirk Nowitzki just for the fun of it.

Advice - don't make things up in the Internet era.

Knickoftime wrote:

fishmike wrote:
to bad Diva cant play 3 positions at once.

Ah, the namecalling has begun.

Good show. Yes, your argument is greatly enhanced by your cleverness.

And Diva doesn't have to play all three positions. he rebounds better than the guy he's replacing in the starting line-up.

A frontcourt player the Knicks acquired rebounds at a considerably higher rate than Mozgov.

You're going to have to explain how this equates to becoming an inferior rebounding team than the one they were yesterday?

Melo's an average rebounder. As "superstars" go his rebounding is not elite. He's a career 6 rebs per game and he's had like 4-5 monster rebounding games this year.

Now you're just making things up.

Diva is the best rebounding elite small forward in the game.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics?position=sf&sort=reboundRate&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnba%2fhollinger%2fstatistics%3fposition%3dsf%26sort%3dreboundRate

Only Dominic McGuire, Shawn Marion and Matt Barnes rebounds more than Diva at a higher rate.

Diva outrebounds (some by a wide margin) Lebron James, Kevin Durant, Paul Pierce, and Rudy Gay.

Need I got on?

Okay, I will...

And Danny Granger, Tayshaun Prince, Andrei Kirilenko, Wilson Chander, and Danillo Gallinari.

And let's thrown in Dirk Nowitzki just for the fun of it.

Advice - don't make things up in the Internet era.

advice... go read your Hollinger articles about Diva's shot selection, pps and impact on the floor for other players. Sorry.. we paid for Lebron and got his little brother. Really good player. whats lost in this is I really like him as a player. I'm happy he's here, just not at the idiotic price we paid (which may end up including the GM). Diva can play... no doubt. And he wants to be a Knick and a NYer. I dont hate him for the crappy trade that brought him here. Wasnt his fault.

That being said if he's a "superstar" he's 2nd tier at best. His defense cant stop Gallo from dropping 30, he doesnt create for other players and his 6.4 rebounds for his career for a SF arent impressive.

The Knicks were already the best scoring team in the league. They just traded 3 and half starters and two picks.

Thank GOD we have MDA here so when the KNicks dont defend and rebound we can blame the coach.

If your telling me Melo is a better rebounder than Lebron you need to spend less time on the internet and more time wathcing basketball

GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:I don't get what you're arguing here. Felton/Gallo/Amare were never considered a big 3 type union. Someone compared our current big 3 players, all of whom make $13m + to Miami's big 3. I don't get how it makes sense to compare them to Felton at 7.5 and Gallo who is making peanuts.

You make trades the make you better.

No, Billups/'Melo/Stat is NOT has good as Wade/James/Bosh. There isn't a person here who would argue this.

But KNicks are NEVER going to be able to get a Big 3 that beats this. NO ONE IN THE NBA can or will.

People are criticizing the trade because it doesn't instantly make them better than Miami.

But if that is the criteria, then the other 29 NBA teams best just pack up and toys and go home, because NO transaction from now until those three start wearing down is going to create a better big 3.

The NBA does kind of award teams based on cost efficiency doesn't it? Teams who hand out albatross contracts get punished because there's a cap and they can't add other good player to their teams because they're over the cap. Having Eddy Currys = bad. Having Landry Fields = good.

But that doesn't mean Felton/Gallo/Stat is better than Billups/Melo/Stat. There are no style points for the taking here.

The ONLY think that matters if what you DO WITH the efficiency. What you turn into to help you on the floor.

Yes, the Knicks are better today than they were yesterday, no one is trying to argue against that.

Well, some are, but you're not so I'll leave that there.

Instead of looking back at what might have been and crying (I'm almost all done with that)it would probably be more fun at this point to go actually looking at realistic pieces we can add to the current new and shiny Knicks core.

Yes.

Azubuike could potentially recover and become useful.

Knicks should have around the 20th(?) pick in the draft.

They can buy more, ala Douglas.

Who knows what Shawne Williams may turn into? He was a high draft pick who is doing something useful for an extended period of time now. There may be more upside there.

We don't now cap exceptions are going away. Personally I believe the owners are going to be looking for a league-wide rollback.

There will be players available for minimum contracts after the deadline.

And I think having the ability to absorb Emeka Okafor's contract puts the Knicks into the Paul discussion. And Billups contract now puts in the in position to be in that conversation.