Knickoftime wrote:

Andrew wrote:My take on what could have happened to make this work.

Curry trade with Minn nets them a trade exception and puts us under the cap. We use that cap space to complete the Billups/melo trade and take on more salary (due to our newfound cap space) and get a trade exception. Hard to tell without knowing how the trade went down.

No, the trade exception IS the cap space you created. They are technically one in the same. A trade exception is the mechanism created to allow teams to complete transaction.

A trade exception can't give you cap space, which you can then use and keep the exception. That is double-dipping.

I don't blame Sheriden for getting this wrong. I did too. The rules are hard to follow. But the Knicks CAN'T get a trade exception out of this. They are already taking back over $6m more than they are trading away.

Either I'm not understanding you or you me. I'm not saying we got a trade exception from the Minn deal, just that we went under the cap in that deal. Maybe its easier to just look at the one transaction. If we just did the Minnesota deal do the Knicks end up with a TPE or does Minnesota?

joec32033 wrote:Minny was under the cap so they absorbed Curry's contract. Brewer/Randolph part was money even. So after the Curry deal we should have been around $11 mil under the cap (not the trade exemption)

No, again, the $11m IS the trade exemption.

No NBA every goes down with just 2 players being traded for 1. IF there is a difference between salaries, then a trade exception is ALWAYS used, regardless of who is or is not under the cap.

So let's say the Knicks and Minnesota trade happens first. Minnesota isn't choosing to send them a TPE, CBA rules dictate it.

Now the KNicks have TWO options to complete a trade with Denver. They can either send Denver the TPE, or RENOUNCE the TPE and create cap space, at which point a NEW TPE would have to be created to make the deal.

The TPE and cap space can't co-exist.

The cap space (in the literal sense) is created IF the Knicks renounce it.

Same with trade exception. Yes, the Knicks technically have cap space to sign a free agent, IF the renounce the trade exception.

But the Knicks NEED the space/TPE to take back the Denver salaries, so the TPE is taken away, either sent to Denver or renounced by the Knicks to create cap space.

Knickoftime wrote:

joec32033 wrote:Minny was under the cap so they absorbed Curry's contract. Brewer/Randolph part was money even. So after the Curry deal we should have been around $11 mil under the cap (not the trade exemption)

No, again, the $11m IS the trade exemption.

No NBA every goes down with just 2 players being traded for 1. IF there is a difference between salaries, then a trade exception is ALWAYS used, regardless of who is or is not under the cap.

So let's say the Knicks and Minnesota trade happens first. Minnesota isn't choosing to send them a TPE, CBA rules dictate it.

Now the KNicks have TWO options to complete a trade with Denver. They can either send Denver the TPE, or RENOUNCE the TPE and create cap space, at which point a NEW TPE would have to be created to make the deal.

The TPE and cap space can't co-exist.

The cap space (in the literal sense) is created IF the Knicks renounce it.

From what I am understanding you are saying the TPE is created within the dynamic of the trade. I got that. But what I am saying is cap space and TPE's are mutually exclusive.

Case in point. When Denver traded Camby to the Clips, they used cap space the Clips had available to unload a player's contract. I don't recall any TPE's talked about.

Al Jefferson was traded to Utah for(no using) for a TPE-probably the one they traded us-Balkman was trade for a TPE a few years ago. Cleveland has a $16 mil one it is sitting on.

I understand where you are coming from. This stuff is confusing.

Andrew wrote:Joe, in order to have Cap space you need to renounce all of your exceptions. You have one or the other.

Ok. So if the dynamics of the trade were a match of all our outgoing players going to Denver and matching salaries and then Denver re routing AR and Curry to Minny we technically never would have had cap space and can get a TPE?

BasketballJones wrote:

Andrew wrote:Joe, in order to have Cap space you need to renounce all of your exceptions. You have one or the other.

So which do we have? Crap space or excremptions?

When the trade is completed. Neither. The Knicks will USE the TPE or cap space (to create a new TPE) to complete the Denver transaction, in which they are taking back much more salary than they are traded.

One both trades are completed, Knicks will be OVER the cap and without a TPE.

The rules ARE difficult, but it's this difficulty that is being used for fans to hope against hope that the Knicks get another useful thing out of this.

The easiest way to think about it is this. Yesterday, the KNicks were over the cap.

Tomorrow the Knicks will be further over the cap, at the absolute limit of the CBA 125% rule.

There are no loopholes in the CBA that allows them to come away with a way to go even FURTHER over the cap, much less ANOTHER 17% over.

That's really all you need to understand.

Knickoftime wrote:

BasketballJones wrote:

Andrew wrote:Joe, in order to have Cap space you need to renounce all of your exceptions. You have one or the other.

So which do we have? Crap space or excremptions?

When the trade is completed. Neither. The Knicks will USE the TPE or cap space (to create a new TPE) to complete the Denver transaction, in which they are taking back much more salary than they are traded.

One both trades are completed, Knicks will be OVER the cap and without a TPE.

The rules ARE difficult, but it's this difficulty that is being used for fans to hope against hope that the Knicks get another useful thing out of this.

The easiest way to think about it is this. Yesterday, the KNicks were over the cap.

Tomorrow the Knicks will be further over the cap, at the absolute limit of the CBA 125% rule.

There are no loopholes in the CBA that allows them to come away with a way to go even FURTHER over the cap, much less ANOTHER 17% over.

That's really all you need to understand.

Okay. I won't worry my little head about it anymore.

Knickoftime wrote:

joec32033 wrote:Ok. So if the dynamics of the trade were a match of all our outgoing players going to Denver and matching salaries and then Denver re routing AR and Curry to Minny we technically never would have had cap space and can get a TPE?

Correct.

But the Denver/NY salary swap is not a match and far beyond the CBA-mandated 125% +100k limit, so the TPE must be flipped or renounced.

I understand that. But I know that 3 team deals like this all parts happen at the same time. I can't remember the exact term in the CBA but all parts happen simultaneously and instantaneously. If this is what happened we would not be under the cap at any point.