[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

How long before Mike D'Antoni is gone


Author Poll
Markji
Posts: 2753
Joined: 9/14/2007
Member: #1673
USA
Of the new players, only Billups can shoot the 3. Balkman, Brewer, Carter, and even Melo can't shoot the 3. If we can't run the typical Mike D'Antoni offense, and we traded away his favorite young players, will Mike stay and for how long?
He will leave or be fired within 1 week.
He will finish this season and then leave or be fired.
He will stay on as head coach til the end of his contract in 2013
Other
View Results


Author Thread
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
2/22/2011  12:56 PM
Vmart wrote:
nixluva wrote:
Vmart wrote:
y2zipper wrote:I think it's an interesting question because I'm not sure Pringle is the right guy for this team now unless he actually adjusts and gets them to play some defense or gets some defensive roleplayers. The teams weaknesses, other than size, which are basically no defense and a short bench have been the same on all D'Antoni teams, so it's quite possible that he's not the right guy to lead this talented group. We'll see, though.

Adjustment not in MDA vocabulary. He is no Pat Riley that can change with the talent given.

I disagree. He's got his desired way of playing that he tries to teach, but he's a creative mind and can adapt what he does to the players he has. We don't have scrubs now. These guys will be able to do a lot under Mike. Mike isn't at a loss for what to do with a great talent like Chauncey or Melo. He flourishes when you give him offensive talent. With time there's no way he doesn't get a ton out of this team. We were less talented before and scored a ton.

I don't doubt his offensive coaching prowess, its the other end of the floor that puts a doubt in me.

To me most of the problem on D is with the commitment from the players. If you put guys together that embrace defending you'll be good. When you have guys like Melo and STAT it's just not something they give 110% on. It's a mentality. They have the physical capability, but not every player goes all in on D. It's not about Mike not coaching it. They clearly have defensive rotations and concepts for help and pressure. It's the lack of total commitment to guarding for the full 24 that has hurt the team. They show they can play D like the last 2 games, but they haven't done that consistently.

AUTOADVERT
y2zipper
Posts: 20946
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/30/2010
Member: #3287

2/22/2011  1:03 PM
I think it's part of the coach's job to get the guys to play defense, although I think Amamr'e is a better defender than people give him credit for even though he's not Kevin Garnett.
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
2/22/2011  1:11 PM
y2zipper wrote:I think it's part of the coach's job to get the guys to play defense, although I think Amamr'e is a better defender than people give him credit for even though he's not Kevin Garnett.

Yeah to a certain degree its up to the coach to set the mindframe and approach. I think it's hard to make guys into defenders cuz it's all about the level of commitment they give. You can't make someone give max effort on D. They have to WANT to defend hard. There's a reason why some guys excel on D and most don't. The thing is that guys that excel at both ends are rare. We could only get the guys that were available and they weren't the guys that give max effort on both ends. STAT and Melo were all we had available to us.

We have to hope that we can put some defenders around them to augment that. I know that Walsh is trying to do that, cuz that's how he thinks.

nykshaknbake
Posts: 22247
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/15/2003
Member: #492
2/22/2011  3:20 PM
Either way, the pressure is on D'Antoni to get the Ws now. He has the firepower if he uses the team right. If he can't win with this team he MUST go. As far as defense, this is D'Antoni. Anybody expecting any kind of sustained defensive effort from his teams is nuts. Coaches leave their mark on a team by what they prioritize. I.e. Van Gundy always had great D, but a very slow and deliberate offense. They might not score but as long as you played D, you were left in the game. D'Antoni likes to run and make a quick strike before the other team is set. Defense or getting a rebound just isn't something he gets jazzed about. As long as a player is helping the 1st the second is just bonus. Rarely do we see players getting chewed for just playing non-chalant D on this Knicks team. The bad news is that teams that emphasize D usually come out ahead in the playofs.
Markji
Posts: 22753
Alba Posts: -4
Joined: 9/14/2007
Member: #1673
USA
2/22/2011  3:46 PM
I don't think it is fair to say that MDA doesn't play or teach any defense. In watching the team this year, the team always played hard at both ends of the court. We were weak in rebounding, which hurt.

IMO, Melo can be motivated to play harder on defense if the entire team is and I think Amare will continue to be the leader and push all the players. They will be fighting for wins and the playoffs. The 3 bench players we received are all defensive specialists with very little offensive ability. Makes me think that upper mgmt wants to emphasize some defense.

SSOL means a lot of scoring by both teams. Will the new team adopt to that is the question? And do we have the players to play that type of game. IMO, I don't think so.

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
nykshaknbake
Posts: 22247
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/15/2003
Member: #492
2/22/2011  4:01 PM
Markji wrote:I don't think it is fair to say that MDA doesn't play or teach any defense. In watching the team this year, the team always played hard at both ends of the court. We were weak in rebounding, which hurt.

IMO, Melo can be motivated to play harder on defense if the entire team is and I think Amare will continue to be the leader and push all the players. They will be fighting for wins and the playoffs. The 3 bench players we received are all defensive specialists with very little offensive ability. Makes me think that upper mgmt wants to emphasize some defense.

SSOL means a lot of scoring by both teams. Will the new team adopt to that is the question? And do we have the players to play that type of game. IMO, I don't think so.


I must have been watching another team. The team I watched played occasional stretches of good hard D adn seemed disinterested and unfocused when it didn't have the ball the rest of the time. Their coach rarely reacted whether it was one or the other. If those 3 can't hit a three they can't play. We don't have the players to play SSOL, so either we will try and fail or Billups takes over the offensive strategy from D'Antoni.

Nalod
Posts: 71165
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
2/22/2011  4:08 PM
Bring in a defensive minded coach to offensive minded players?

We don't know anytyihng about our team now. Its different.

Melo and Amare came to play for MDA. Change him is kind of stupid. Bring in JVG and he'll stagnate the team.

Coach to your strenths not the weekess.

Team played better defense when Mozzy was part of the rotation.

Gallo's production would suffer when he played a teams best player. We beat miami last time. He did good.

Maybe skiles can come in and teach Melo how to play good Defense and when he misses his assignment he can bench him. Like thats gonna happen.

nykshaknbake
Posts: 22247
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/15/2003
Member: #492
2/22/2011  7:28 PM
So MDA was what attracted them to the Knicks? You can't possibly believe what you just wrote. JVG had an inferior team to what we had the 1st half of this season and had it perform. So coaching to your strengths means you don't care about your weaknesses? SO bad offensive teams should not work on offensive strategy and practice shooting while bad defensive teams should not focus on defense? How is it that defense and offense are mutually exclusive, that if one is coached the other can't be, like you suggest?

One moment that I saw at a Spurs game was when Duncan missed a defensive rotation and got chewed out by the coach. just 1 isolated play...that is defensive coaching which doesn't mean you can't 'coach to your strengths'

Nalod wrote:Bring in a defensive minded coach to offensive minded players?

We don't know anytyihng about our team now. Its different.

Melo and Amare came to play for MDA. Change him is kind of stupid. Bring in JVG and he'll stagnate the team.

Coach to your strenths not the weekess.

Team played better defense when Mozzy was part of the rotation.

Gallo's production would suffer when he played a teams best player. We beat miami last time. He did good.

Maybe skiles can come in and teach Melo how to play good Defense and when he misses his assignment he can bench him. Like thats gonna happen.

loweyecue
Posts: 27468
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 11/20/2005
Member: #1037

2/22/2011  7:52 PM
But you still coach to yoyur strengths not to your weaknesses. If your strength is offense you try to win with offense. This constant repeating of "you can only win with defense" doesn't make it some type of universal truth. If we got some defensive minded coach we wouldn't go anywhere with this team. What MDA needs is one or two defensive specialists Camby/AK47 types.
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
babyKnicks
Posts: 22486
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/31/2006
Member: #1191
USA
2/22/2011  7:56 PM
He's got a better team than he could have imagined. He creates careers for scrubs.

He coached melo during the olympics during his year of growing up.

I barely remember the fight...actually, I'm lying, I remember clear as a bell and now blame Nate for it. :-)

Let's go Knicks. That's amare
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
2/22/2011  8:09 PM
Billups is coming from a team that is faster than this one. He can play both ways. that's a plus for this team going into the playoffs. We won't be at a disadvantage if the game slows down to a halfcourt game. People really don't understand that Mike has a GREAT halfcourt game. Most of his plays are things that happen in the halfcourt. As you run thru the progressions, it still creates great scoring opportunities.

Once Donnie gets a chance to add some help inside, we should be able to bang a bit more with the bigger teams. We'll still want to play faster cuz that's gonna be a strength of this team.

nykshaknbake
Posts: 22247
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/15/2003
Member: #492
2/22/2011  8:21 PM
loweyecue wrote:But you still coach to yoyur strengths not to your weaknesses. If your strength is offense you try to win with offense. This constant repeating of "you can only win with defense" doesn't make it some type of universal truth. If we got some defensive minded coach we wouldn't go anywhere with this team. What MDA needs is one or two defensive specialists Camby/AK47 types.

coaching to your strengths and not your weaknesses. GIven that offense and defense happen at different times and never together means it actuallly is possible to be a good offensive and defensive team. *gasp*. Focusing on offense doesn't mean your D has to suck. It's not one or another. MDA might need defensive specialists but he needs more, to at least give a passing respect to defense.

nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
2/22/2011  8:30 PM
nykshaknbake wrote:
loweyecue wrote:But you still coach to yoyur strengths not to your weaknesses. If your strength is offense you try to win with offense. This constant repeating of "you can only win with defense" doesn't make it some type of universal truth. If we got some defensive minded coach we wouldn't go anywhere with this team. What MDA needs is one or two defensive specialists Camby/AK47 types.

coaching to your strengths and not your weaknesses. GIven that offense and defense happen at different times and never together means it actuallly is possible to be a good offensive and defensive team. *gasp*. Focusing on offense doesn't mean your D has to suck. It's not one or another. MDA might need defensive specialists but he needs more, to at least give a passing respect to defense.


You don't know that Mike isn't emphasizing D. You can only assume that he doesn't. STAT made it clear that he will expect Melo to buy into playing hard on D as well as all the players needing to dig in harder on D. I think this is really just something people kick around but don't know what the truth is.

We need to add another bigman to help with our interior D. Donnie knows this and i'm sure he's working hard to try and fill that need.

CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
2/22/2011  9:20 PM
I think D'Antoni lasts 1-2 months next season if Walsh is gone after this year. I think D'Antoni has been shielded from the dysfunction of working for Dolan and from the NY media by Walsh. Once Walsh is gone I think things will get too hot for D'Antoni very quickly.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
nykshaknbake
Posts: 22247
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/15/2003
Member: #492
2/22/2011  11:56 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/22/2011  11:58 PM
Sure I do. The games are proof enough. If he does, I guess he's never had players capable of defense with him, even in Phoenix. What horrible luck through all these years.

I hope we do get another big man. BTW does anyone know if we can just out right sign Earl Barron, being over the cap as we are? Donnie doesn't have alot to play with otherwise.

nixluva wrote:
nykshaknbake wrote:
loweyecue wrote:But you still coach to yoyur strengths not to your weaknesses. If your strength is offense you try to win with offense. This constant repeating of "you can only win with defense" doesn't make it some type of universal truth. If we got some defensive minded coach we wouldn't go anywhere with this team. What MDA needs is one or two defensive specialists Camby/AK47 types.

coaching to your strengths and not your weaknesses. GIven that offense and defense happen at different times and never together means it actuallly is possible to be a good offensive and defensive team. *gasp*. Focusing on offense doesn't mean your D has to suck. It's not one or another. MDA might need defensive specialists but he needs more, to at least give a passing respect to defense.


You don't know that Mike isn't emphasizing D. You can only assume that he doesn't. STAT made it clear that he will expect Melo to buy into playing hard on D as well as all the players needing to dig in harder on D. I think this is really just something people kick around but don't know what the truth is.

We need to add another bigman to help with our interior D. Donnie knows this and i'm sure he's working hard to try and fill that need.

nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
2/23/2011  12:08 AM
The Suns weren't great at D, but they didn't stink. They were middle of the League. When we won the last 2 games, the team was committed on D and that is what it takes. They even admitted that they didn't put forth max effort in the losing streak. The last 2 games they held the teams below 100. That's proof that he's coaching D, but these players don't always commit to it. We all know that we have a lot of offensive minded players. They can defend when they want to tho. They showed that in the win over Miami. Even Shawne Williams had a great defensive game.
nykshaknbake
Posts: 22247
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/15/2003
Member: #492
2/23/2011  8:07 AM
The suns had proven good defensive players and turned out mediocre. You are pitting a few games in a sample of 50 as definitive proof?!! Wow. Well Allan Hiuston dropped 50 on the Lakers once and outscored Kobe so that proves he was a better player than Kobe. Didn't ya know we had MJ v 2.0 back then.
nixluva wrote:The Suns weren't great at D, but they didn't stink. They were middle of the League. When we won the last 2 games, the team was committed on D and that is what it takes. They even admitted that they didn't put forth max effort in the losing streak. The last 2 games they held the teams below 100. That's proof that he's coaching D, but these players don't always commit to it. We all know that we have a lot of offensive minded players. They can defend when they want to tho. They showed that in the win over Miami. Even Shawne Williams had a great defensive game.
martin
Posts: 76237
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
2/23/2011  9:34 AM
nykshaknbake wrote:The suns had proven good defensive players and turned out mediocre. You are pitting a few games in a sample of 50 as definitive proof?!! Wow. Well Allan Hiuston dropped 50 on the Lakers once and outscored Kobe so that proves he was a better player than Kobe. Didn't ya know we had MJ v 2.0 back then.
nixluva wrote:The Suns weren't great at D, but they didn't stink. They were middle of the League. When we won the last 2 games, the team was committed on D and that is what it takes. They even admitted that they didn't put forth max effort in the losing streak. The last 2 games they held the teams below 100. That's proof that he's coaching D, but these players don't always commit to it. We all know that we have a lot of offensive minded players. They can defend when they want to tho. They showed that in the win over Miami. Even Shawne Williams had a great defensive game.

when I looked back at the suns they had both good defenders and some very weak defenders, and so the team turned out mediocre, which seems reasonable.

And all of their below average defenders where at key positions and consumed lots of minutes: PG, PF, C.

Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
OasisBU
Posts: 24138
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 6/18/2002
Member: #257
USA
2/23/2011  9:35 AM
I really don't get all the talk about Donnie and MDA being on the way out....has this team not improved dramatically since they came in? I guess I must be missing something but so many are unhappy with MDA and want to see him gone.
"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
How long before Mike D'Antoni is gone

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy