mightymatt wrote:so the way I understand the deal to work is

NY gets: 'Melo, Billups, + Salary Filler
Minny Gets: Randolph, Curry (to be bought out later)
Denver Gets: Wilson Chandler, Gallo, Felton, 2014 pick from NY, and I'm assuming a #1 draft pick from Minny (the only reason I see them as part of the deal to absorb Randolph)

I agree...this trade is really just gallo/felton for billups/melo. ..now for the time being Billups is a superior PG to felton...age is going to catch up to him in the MDA offense...even if his deal is through 2012..we gotta hope there is no franchise tag in the new CBA to make either D-Will or CP3 options as replacements when the time comes...

mightymatt wrote:so the way I understand the deal to work is

NY gets: 'Melo, Billups, + Salary Filler
Minny Gets: Randolph, Curry (to be bought out later)
Denver Gets: Wilson Chandler, Gallo, Felton, 2014 pick from NY, and I'm assuming a #1 draft pick from Minny (the only reason I see them as part of the deal to absorb Randolph)

I agree...this trade is really just gallo/felton for billups/melo. ..now for the time being Billups is a superior PG to felton...age is going to catch up to him in the MDA offense...even if his deal is through 2012..we gotta hope there is no franchise tag in the new CBA to make either D-Will or CP3 options as replacements when the time comes...

The funny thing is that Melo fears what the new CBA will mean to his earnings, but the Knicks/Dolan seem to have no fear that it will hamstring their chances to find complimentary pieces to Melo and Amare after all the dust of this transaction has settle.

Why do we have to be the ones being squeezed? Why aren't we able to get a Lawson or other asset Denver would rather not lose?

nixluva wrote:This deal goes thru, I don't see how anyone could have a big problem with it. We get the guy we wanted and in truth it really only cost us Gallo. Chandler was going to be a problem in the end anyway if we went the FA route. Being able to keep Fields and Timo is a good thing. We really will miss Chandler to some degree, but in terms of the long term makeup of the team, it's still a good deal. The toughest part of building a contender is getting 2 Superstars. You start with the core and work on the role players as you go along.

Superstars are rare, guys that can play a 6th man role are easier to find. Usually it's a SG or SF that can light it up. I'm confident we can find a guy that fits that role. Who knows maybe that guy is AZ if he can continue to rehab and make it all the way back.

Melo is not a superstar, though, and will never be the complete player a Wade, James, or Kobe is. He is an offensive machine, but no more so than Bob McAdoo (also a great rebounder), whose best season with the Knicks was 43 wins, I think.

Paladin55 wrote:

mightymatt wrote:so the way I understand the deal to work is

NY gets: 'Melo, Billups, + Salary Filler
Minny Gets: Randolph, Curry (to be bought out later)
Denver Gets: Wilson Chandler, Gallo, Felton, 2014 pick from NY, and I'm assuming a #1 draft pick from Minny (the only reason I see them as part of the deal to absorb Randolph)

I agree...this trade is really just gallo/felton for billups/melo. ..now for the time being Billups is a superior PG to felton...age is going to catch up to him in the MDA offense...even if his deal is through 2012..we gotta hope there is no franchise tag in the new CBA to make either D-Will or CP3 options as replacements when the time comes...

The funny thing is that Melo fears what the new CBA will mean to his earnings, but the Knicks/Dolan seem to have no fear that it will hamstring their chances to find complimentary pieces to Melo and Amare after all the dust of this transaction has settle.

Why do we have to be the ones being squeezed? Why aren't we able to get a Lawson or other asset Denver would rather not lose?

Every year there are players that become available that can help in a limited role, but didn't fit into their former teams plans. I see no reason to be concerned, cuz now we're not talking about frontline players, but role players and those guys are a dime a dozen. We'll be able to find someone to fit our needs. This is just the beginning.

Knickoftime wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:Melo is not a superstar, though, and will never be the complete player a Wade, James, or Kobe is.

And Chandler and Gallinari will never be Anthony, which is the basis the traded has to be evaluated on.

That you only trade Gallo and Chandler for one Wade, James, or Kobe is an utter confusion of the issue.

BRIGGS wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

Paladin55 wrote:

TheGame wrote:I don't understand why we would give up Randolph if we are not getting a pick from Minny. If we give Minny $3 mill, then pretty much most of Curry's remaining salary would be paid by us. Why give them Randolph unless we are getting a pick back? We need to get at least a protected first round pick or two second round picks from Minny.

So it would seem that we can't even get Denver to take on Curry in this deal, and instead of trading Randolph for a #1, we are giving him to Minny so they will take Curry's contract, AND, we are basically paying Minny to take on Randolph and Curry... perhaps getting a trade exception.

Seems to me that we are being pretty generous to Denver, who has a star who no longer wants to play with them, and Minny, who is getting $3M, a young player who may still have an upside, and an expiring contract.

There are 4 "players" in involved, and 3 of them- Denver, Minny, and Melo, seem to be winners, while the Knicks, who thought they might be getting a FA star next summer for the cost of a contract, are fleeced for at least 3 starters, a prospect (Randolph) $3m, and OUR OWN 2014 #1.

Yeah, thank god Isiah Dolan stepped in to bring a little sanity to these negotiations.

If you want to look at the bright side--I am happy that Fields and Mosgov will be staying. I thought for sure that they were done 4. The trade to me is gallo for Carmelo. We were going to lose Chandler and while he doesnt run the style of play--Billuops is more of a big time player in clutch spots than felton. the bottom line is they are both signed for 2 years. randolph=0 to the Knicks and well ahev to pay a pick in 2014--but hopefully it will be 20 or so--something we could buy.

the fact that we are keeping fields is big. Lets just do this deal--this deal I can live with. Lets hope we can turn our attention to a secondary deal where we can get a Dalembart or somebody like that--maybe Jefferies if he is bought out. We need quality depth upfront not named shelden williams. if we get an exemption--move it to Sacramento get landry at a minimum--reading today they need the $$

You and I both know that this is a situation we seemed to have under some kind of control, and now we are giving up assets we did not expect to lose and getting played by Melo, Denver, and even, to some extent, the Nyets.

The bottom line is that this team wins if it picks up Melo as a FA, and that the trade as constituted puts us in a situation where not only do we give away too much, but we may have some major cap issues if the CBA takes a certain turn, and now we discover that we are even losing our 2014 #1, instead of one we got for Randolph.

Sorry...we are getting played.

Palladin--If we gave up Fields Id be down with that. I thought he was gone. The difference in doing this deal now is Gallo--certainly an EXPENSIVE piece but in the world of give and get--the need to go back to their fan base with hope. What we are buying is a chance to be a player this year-- AND we get the FULL MLE next year with a pick to use. Heck maybe we get Chandler back LOL but more likely a dalembart--something like that. Keeping fields and mosgov is a big help--I truly thought all 5 pieces were toast. the give is Gallo and picks for a chance to try and win now. Its not the worst thing in the world.

Travla wrote:I don't like this deal but tired of hearing about it. I, like some of you think the Knicks are giving up too much and maybe I'm in the minority of thinking that Billups is better than Felton or at least a wash. Billups is a average point guard who has always played like a shooting guard. Billups has only had 2 games this season with double figure assists and only 1 double double. Felton has had 27 double figure assists and 23 double doubles. Maybe Billups assist numbers will improve once he gets into Mike D's system but how long will that take? Maybe Melo will go to another team, that's impossible to know but I would wait and see. I feel confident that he will not sign an extension with the Nets, maybe some other team could swoop in but again, impossible to know.

Nah you can't take the chance that Melo gets cold feet and goes somewhere else. You lock this up now and move on. We didn't really kill our ability to improve the team further. We still have expiring contracts and our draft pick this year. There will be players out there looking for a chance to get back into the NBA like Barron and PE Jr. There's always a bevy of role players out there. The Billups vs. Felton part is a concern, but we have to remember how Felton's stats looked before he came here. This system along with having Amar'e is GREAT for PG's to be successful. It puts PG's in perfect position to succeed. I have to believe that Billups will be able to succeed if Felton was able to succeed.

Paladin55 wrote:

spreeeewell wrote:Who knows? Maybe Walsh has a deal with Minnesotta and another team. cause we have to get something back if we are sending Curry and Randolph to Minnie. And by the way. WHERE IS TMS?

Bitter feud...http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=38091&page=1

(did not see earlier post)

Bitter? Hardly!

loweyecue wrote:Why is Minny even included in this deal?

Because in order to make the salaries match, Curry HAS to be included.

Denver doesn't want to take Curry back because it gives them a major luxury tax savings.