Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BigSm00th wrote:MDA only plays 6 guys anyway.

cmon man... he plays 8 guys

. I'm open to trading the rest.

This is my line up to compete w/ the elite:
PG Felton
SG Melo
SF GalloTo me its all about keeping Gallo, Mosgov and Felton
PF Amare
C Mosgov
bench: Douglas, Turiaf, Williams

If we could draft another great shooter like Freddete look out, but with some more experience from Gallo/Mos I think the above is an elite lineup. Size, skill and depth. Sure Lebron and Wade are better than any of our two they will have Joel Anthony or Mario Chalmer or Jones guarding Felton, Gallo and Mosgov. THATS where we hammer them (and every other team).

When Lebron had a gargage shooting game (it happens) the Heat didnt have the ponies to overcome that. The Knicks will

If keeping Felton and Gallo is a must, then our only hope of landing Melo would be for him to turn down that extention money that he seemingly covets. Why would Denver accept a deal built around Wilson Chandler who could walk away from them this summer?

Wilson hires an agent and they handshake an agreement for a contract.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Marv wrote:i don't think we're sniffing championship anytime soon. that would have required either: a)hitting home runs with the draft picks that netted us gallo and hill or b) signing lebron along with amear.

Or being willing to lose a little longer and get some very good draft picks. If we had had a .500+ team last year plus cap space, we might have attracted the big 3.

i don't think dwade was leaving miami under ANY circumstances. that means the big 3 could only have congregated in south beach.

And, more importantly, if we had a .500+ team of players on rookie or small contracts in 2012, we would be in a good position to attract the next possible big 3 or 2 of them (Dwight, Paul, Williams) or to keep building a team of good players on excellent contracts.

how would this team have gotten near .500 without amear? plus chandler would not have been on a small contract in 2012, especially if he had been good enough to get us above .500 without amear.

Nothing against Amear at all but I'd rather have a .500 team in place and be adding one of those three in 2012 than be in the situation we're in. Those 3 are all younger, healthier (Dwight and D Will at least), and better 2 way players.

well then i think you’re going back to my point that we would have had to have hit home runs with the gallo and hill picks to have accomplished that.

Marv wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Marv wrote:i don't think we're sniffing championship anytime soon. that would have required either: a)hitting home runs with the draft picks that netted us gallo and hill or b) signing lebron along with amear.

Or being willing to lose a little longer and get some very good draft picks. If we had had a .500+ team last year plus cap space, we might have attracted the big 3.

i don't think dwade was leaving miami under ANY circumstances. that means the big 3 could only have congregated in south beach.

And, more importantly, if we had a .500+ team of players on rookie or small contracts in 2012, we would be in a good position to attract the next possible big 3 or 2 of them (Dwight, Paul, Williams) or to keep building a team of good players on excellent contracts.

how would this team have gotten near .500 without amear? plus chandler would not have been on a small contract in 2012, especially if he had been good enough to get us above .500 without amear.

Nothing against Amear at all but I'd rather have a .500 team in place and be adding one of those three in 2012 than be in the situation we're in. Those 3 are all younger, healthier (Dwight and D Will at least), and better 2 way players.

well then i think you’re going back to my point that we would have had to have hit home runs with the gallo and hill picks to have accomplished that.

Getting near .500 depends on who we draft and how they develop. If we're not there yet but close in 2012, maybe we get one of the big 3. If not, the more important point is that there would be more FA opportunities. 2010 and 2012 aren't once in a lifetime opportunities. They're 67% of a three year span! No matter how great Amare has played, you're a trillion times better off drafting a player like Griffin or Durant and having him on a 4 year rookie contract than giving a 6 year max contract to Amare (and better off drafting any all-star that you surround with a strong supporting cast). Imagine how appealing to Lebron or (maybe Wade) playing with Westbrook and Durant (then on rookie contracts) would have been? Why not go the rout that would put us in a position to draft the next Griffin, Durant, Westbrook, etc. and to appeal outstanding 2 way FAs?

Now, if the goal is not specifically to win a championship but just to put together a respectable 2nd round playoff team and as quickly as possible, that's another story. I think most fans if they actually thought about it would reject that rout but they're too excited drooling over having a .500 team that might make it to .580 with Carmelo.

Bonn1997 wrote:

Marv wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Marv wrote:i don't think we're sniffing championship anytime soon. that would have required either: a)hitting home runs with the draft picks that netted us gallo and hill or b) signing lebron along with amear.

Or being willing to lose a little longer and get some very good draft picks. If we had had a .500+ team last year plus cap space, we might have attracted the big 3.

i don't think dwade was leaving miami under ANY circumstances. that means the big 3 could only have congregated in south beach.

And, more importantly, if we had a .500+ team of players on rookie or small contracts in 2012, we would be in a good position to attract the next possible big 3 or 2 of them (Dwight, Paul, Williams) or to keep building a team of good players on excellent contracts.

how would this team have gotten near .500 without amear? plus chandler would not have been on a small contract in 2012, especially if he had been good enough to get us above .500 without amear.

Nothing against Amear at all but I'd rather have a .500 team in place and be adding one of those three in 2012 than be in the situation we're in. Those 3 are all younger, healthier (Dwight and D Will at least), and better 2 way players.

well then i think you’re going back to my point that we would have had to have hit home runs with the gallo and hill picks to have accomplished that.

Getting near .500 depends on who we draft and how they develop. If we're not there yet but close in 2012, maybe we get one of the big 3. If not, the more important point is that there would be more FA opportunities. 2010 and 2012 aren't once in a lifetime opportunities. They're 67% of a three year span! No matter how great Amare has played, you're a trillion times better off drafting a player like Griffin or Durant and having him on a 4 year rookie contract than giving a 6 year max contract to Amare (and better off drafting any all-star that you surround with a strong supporting cast). Imagine how appealing to Lebron or (maybe Wade) playing with Westbrook and Durant (then on rookie contracts) would have been? Why not go the rout that would put us in a position to draft the next Griffin, Durant, Westbrook, etc. and to appeal outstanding 2 way FAs?

Now, if the goal is not specifically to win a championship but just to put together a respectable 2nd round playoff team and as quickly as possible, that's another story. I think most fans if they actually thought about it would reject that rout but they're too excited drooling over having a .500 team that might make it to .580 with Carmelo.

so in order to have gotten griffin, Durant, westbrook Donnie, still having to only gradually pare down a $125M roster, would have had to put out such a collection of crap as to achieve the worst record in the league 2 years in a row. and hire a no-name coach who wouldn’t have minded a couple of years of coaching the worst team in the league. would this have flown in nyc?

or, if in retrospect, we had done better in our 2 lotto drafts, we would have come out with jennings/holiday and gordon. that means on rookie contract we'd have a backcourt of 16-5(jennings) or 14-6 (holiday) and 24-5-47% (gordon). and that's with 20/20 hindsight. would that have achieved .500? I have my doubts.

Marv wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Marv wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Marv wrote:i don't think we're sniffing championship anytime soon. that would have required either: a)hitting home runs with the draft picks that netted us gallo and hill or b) signing lebron along with amear.

Or being willing to lose a little longer and get some very good draft picks. If we had had a .500+ team last year plus cap space, we might have attracted the big 3.

i don't think dwade was leaving miami under ANY circumstances. that means the big 3 could only have congregated in south beach.

And, more importantly, if we had a .500+ team of players on rookie or small contracts in 2012, we would be in a good position to attract the next possible big 3 or 2 of them (Dwight, Paul, Williams) or to keep building a team of good players on excellent contracts.

how would this team have gotten near .500 without amear? plus chandler would not have been on a small contract in 2012, especially if he had been good enough to get us above .500 without amear.

Nothing against Amear at all but I'd rather have a .500 team in place and be adding one of those three in 2012 than be in the situation we're in. Those 3 are all younger, healthier (Dwight and D Will at least), and better 2 way players.

well then i think you’re going back to my point that we would have had to have hit home runs with the gallo and hill picks to have accomplished that.

Getting near .500 depends on who we draft and how they develop. If we're not there yet but close in 2012, maybe we get one of the big 3. If not, the more important point is that there would be more FA opportunities. 2010 and 2012 aren't once in a lifetime opportunities. They're 67% of a three year span! No matter how great Amare has played, you're a trillion times better off drafting a player like Griffin or Durant and having him on a 4 year rookie contract than giving a 6 year max contract to Amare (and better off drafting any all-star that you surround with a strong supporting cast). Imagine how appealing to Lebron or (maybe Wade) playing with Westbrook and Durant (then on rookie contracts) would have been? Why not go the rout that would put us in a position to draft the next Griffin, Durant, Westbrook, etc. and to appeal outstanding 2 way FAs?

Now, if the goal is not specifically to win a championship but just to put together a respectable 2nd round playoff team and as quickly as possible, that's another story. I think most fans if they actually thought about it would reject that rout but they're too excited drooling over having a .500 team that might make it to .580 with Carmelo.

so in order to have gotten griffin, Durant, westbrook Donnie, still having to only gradually pare down a $125M roster, would have had to put out such a collection of crap as to achieve the worst record in the league 2 years in a row. and hire a no-name coach who wouldn’t have minded a couple of years of coaching the worst team in the league. would this have flown in nyc?

or, if in retrospect, we had done better in our 2 lotto drafts, we would have come out with jennings/holiday and gordon. that means on rookie contract we'd have a backcourt of 16-5(jennings) or 14-6 (holiday) and 24-5-47% (gordon). and that's with 20/20 hindsight. would that have achieved .500? I have my doubts.

Again, all of my comments are based on truly having the goal of winning a championship. If as a fan, you just want to see an enjoyable product that can compete, then you'd have no motivation to go through the path I'm advocating.

Marv wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Marv wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Marv wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Marv wrote:i don't think we're sniffing championship anytime soon. that would have required either: a)hitting home runs with the draft picks that netted us gallo and hill or b) signing lebron along with amear.

Or being willing to lose a little longer and get some very good draft picks. If we had had a .500+ team last year plus cap space, we might have attracted the big 3.

i don't think dwade was leaving miami under ANY circumstances. that means the big 3 could only have congregated in south beach.

And, more importantly, if we had a .500+ team of players on rookie or small contracts in 2012, we would be in a good position to attract the next possible big 3 or 2 of them (Dwight, Paul, Williams) or to keep building a team of good players on excellent contracts.

how would this team have gotten near .500 without amear? plus chandler would not have been on a small contract in 2012, especially if he had been good enough to get us above .500 without amear.

Nothing against Amear at all but I'd rather have a .500 team in place and be adding one of those three in 2012 than be in the situation we're in. Those 3 are all younger, healthier (Dwight and D Will at least), and better 2 way players.

well then i think you’re going back to my point that we would have had to have hit home runs with the gallo and hill picks to have accomplished that.

Getting near .500 depends on who we draft and how they develop. If we're not there yet but close in 2012, maybe we get one of the big 3. If not, the more important point is that there would be more FA opportunities. 2010 and 2012 aren't once in a lifetime opportunities. They're 67% of a three year span! No matter how great Amare has played, you're a trillion times better off drafting a player like Griffin or Durant and having him on a 4 year rookie contract than giving a 6 year max contract to Amare (and better off drafting any all-star that you surround with a strong supporting cast). Imagine how appealing to Lebron or (maybe Wade) playing with Westbrook and Durant (then on rookie contracts) would have been? Why not go the rout that would put us in a position to draft the next Griffin, Durant, Westbrook, etc. and to appeal outstanding 2 way FAs?

Now, if the goal is not specifically to win a championship but just to put together a respectable 2nd round playoff team and as quickly as possible, that's another story. I think most fans if they actually thought about it would reject that rout but they're too excited drooling over having a .500 team that might make it to .580 with Carmelo.

so in order to have gotten griffin, Durant, westbrook Donnie, still having to only gradually pare down a $125M roster, would have had to put out such a collection of crap as to achieve the worst record in the league 2 years in a row. and hire a no-name coach who wouldn’t have minded a couple of years of coaching the worst team in the league. would this have flown in nyc?

or, if in retrospect, we had done better in our 2 lotto drafts, we would have come out with jennings/holiday and gordon. that means on rookie contract we'd have a backcourt of 16-5(jennings) or 14-6 (holiday) and 24-5-47% (gordon). and that's with 20/20 hindsight. would that have achieved .500? I have my doubts.

Like all paths, the path I'm advocating is unlikely to lead to a championship--BUT it's less unlikely than a path that involves maxing out players who are inferior to other team's top players--even more so if we have to give up tons of assets to acquire Carmelo.

Again, all of my comments are based on truly having the goal of winning a championship. If as a fan, you just want to see an enjoyable product that can compete, then you'd have no motivation to go through the path I'm advocating.

i don't see your path though. it doesn't seem feasible. in THEORY fine, but i think i've been showing that it didn't have any basis in practical reality. please show me where i'm wrong.

What I would have liked was once we didn't get LeWade, to use the team's wealth to purchase as many draft picks (and thus chances at getting great players on rookie contracts) as possible. You have many great trade advantages when you're under the cap and we could have used them to get draft picks and good players still on rookie contracts. There's plenty of cap room to still add good veterans like Felton who would help the rookies develop.