[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Sure, Gut The Team And Throw In Landry Fields While You're At It
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 2 of 14 ‹ Previous 1  2  3  4 Next ›Last »
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
misterearl
Posts: 38786
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/16/2004
Member: #799
USA
2/15/2011  8:57 AM
Sheesh cashmoney. How many times will this useless word be repeated?

"The Knicks are not winning this year and there is no guarantee that the Knicks sign him during the off season."

There are no guarantees.

The Knicks ARE winning this year.

once a knick always a knick
AUTOADVERT
GustavBahler
Posts: 42817
Alba Posts: 15
Joined: 7/12/2010
Member: #3186
2/15/2011  8:59 AM
CashMoney wrote:IMHO this is not a terrible trade for the Knicks. With Melo in the mix Chandler is gone next year anyway. We part with Chandler a little early, trade Gallo, a pick, Curry's contract and Felton. Looking at this trade it's pretty much trading Gallo and Felton for Melo and Billups. Sure Billups is up there age wise but he can still play. Felton was given a 2 year deal for a reason aka CP3. The Knicks are not winning this year and there is no guarantee that the Knicks sign him during the off season. Billups can be bough out nexy year anyway or the Knicks could keep him next year and make a run at Chris Paul the following off season. I would pull the trigger on this deal.

I agree.
Silverfuel
Posts: 31750
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 6/27/2002
Member: #268
USA
2/15/2011  9:00 AM
misterearl wrote:Silverfuel - please read more carefully. Nalod's post read that "incremental growth was an accomplishment" NOT a guarantee.

I'm asking him how does he know we can accomplish incremental growth every year. And please stop with the silly "please read more carefully" type condescending stuff.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
fishmike
Posts: 53837
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
2/15/2011  9:02 AM
Silverfuel wrote:
Nalod wrote:Whats wrong with being a .500 team?

We start two rookies and are one of the youngest teams?

Last year we did not win 30 games. We likely will by march 1st.

INcremental growth is an accomplishment.

Every young team or young players have the same problem: consistency!

Bring Melo if you must but not for the star power but for the basketball!


Are you saying Incremental growth is guaranteed? How do you know that Nalod? We will remain a .500 team because other than Amare all we have is role players.

there is no hedge there. If Amare or Melo gets hurt your a 32 win team with no draft picks.

Also riddle me this....

PG Billups
SG Bill Walker
SF Melo
PF Amare
C Mosgov
bench: Shawn Williams, Toney Douglas, Renaldo Balkman

Is that team better than Denvers? No picks. Is that team better then the Heat? If Billups were 28 years old I would be open. He's 35 and declining rapidly.

Are you saying Incremental growth is guaranteed? How do you know that Nalod? We will remain a .500 team because other than Amare all we have is role players.
and yes.. it is guaranteed. When you have a 7'1 rookie athletic center like Mosgov who has shown he's got a proven work ethic, doesnt party and has gotten better in a short time this year its guarenteed. Gallo and Chandler have both improved. Fields is only a rookie. All these guys are solid character guys who work very hard. How can you say growth wont happen? Its silly
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
CashMoney
Posts: 23145
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 1/15/2011
Member: #3374
USA
2/15/2011  9:04 AM
misterearl wrote:Sheesh cashmoney. How many times will this useless word be repeated?

"The Knicks are not winning this year and there is no guarantee that the Knicks sign him during the off season."

There are no guarantees.

The Knicks ARE winning this year.

The Knicks are winning this year? When I talk about winning I'm talking about winning it all. 1 game over .500 is garbage but it's better garabage than what we've seen the last 9 years. The Knicks are a rough patch away from not making the playoffs. I think they will make the playoffs but not going much further than the 1st round.

Blue & Orange 4 Life!
MSG3
Posts: 22788
Alba Posts: 4
Joined: 2/2/2009
Member: #2476
USA
2/15/2011  9:09 AM
misterearl wrote:Silverfuel - please read more carefully. Nalod's post read that "incremental growth was an accomplishment" NOT a guarantee.

There are no "guarantees."

Not even in Miami. And they have three, count 'em, THREE, so-called stars.

Just for the record, the 1969-70 New York Knicks were ALL role players. Not one all star in the bunch.

So is someone like Steve Nash a role player because he's not an all start? You really consider Frazier and Reed role players? This post is a poor way of trying to prove a point. Miami isn't guaranteed anything, but last I checked they are .5 games out of first right behind Boston who start 3 all stars. The Knicks need Melo and then worry about building around him and STAT.

The deal as presently constituted would be fine with me but the Knicks can make a better deal and I expect them to.
Silverfuel
Posts: 31750
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 6/27/2002
Member: #268
USA
2/15/2011  9:11 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/15/2011  9:12 AM
fishmike wrote:
Silverfuel wrote:
Nalod wrote:Whats wrong with being a .500 team?

We start two rookies and are one of the youngest teams?

Last year we did not win 30 games. We likely will by march 1st.

INcremental growth is an accomplishment.

Every young team or young players have the same problem: consistency!

Bring Melo if you must but not for the star power but for the basketball!


Are you saying Incremental growth is guaranteed? How do you know that Nalod? We will remain a .500 team because other than Amare all we have is role players.

there is no hedge there. If Amare or Melo gets hurt your a 32 win team with no draft picks.

Also riddle me this....

PG Billups
SG Bill Walker
SF Melo
PF Amare
C Mosgov
bench: Shawn Williams, Toney Douglas, Renaldo Balkman

Is that team better than Denvers? No picks. Is that team better then the Heat? If Billups were 28 years old I would be open. He's 35 and declining rapidly.


That team is better than the NYC team is right now.
and yes.. it is guaranteed. When you have a 7'1 rookie athletic center like Mosgov who has shown he's got a proven work ethic, doesnt party and has gotten better in a short time this year its guarenteed. Gallo and Chandler have both improved. Fields is only a rookie. All these guys are solid character guys who work very hard. How can you say growth wont happen? Its silly

That is very good of you to guarantee something like that. But I disagree. What you see in this Knick team I just don't see. What we have here is a disagreement on player potential. I cannot convince you and you cannot convince me so I will disregard your posts on the subject.

But that is not what misterearl is saying. He is saying there are no guarantees. That I can agree with. We are both dealing in the unknown. When we both don't know what will happen in the future, I like my chances with Melo + Amare over Gallo + Chandler + Fields.

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
skeng
Posts: 22090
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 10/27/2009
Member: #2959
Denmark
2/15/2011  9:12 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/15/2011  9:13 AM
I just know Gallo will be devastated if he gets traded away, which makes me a saaad panda
Legalize di NBA
fishmike
Posts: 53837
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
2/15/2011  9:14 AM
Silverfuel wrote:
misterearl wrote:Silverfuel - please read more carefully. Nalod's post read that "incremental growth was an accomplishment" NOT a guarantee.

I'm asking him how does he know we can accomplish incremental growth every year. And please stop with the silly "please read more carefully" type condescending stuff.

your not being reasonable

chandler 23
Gallo 22, 150 NBA games
Fields 22, Rookie
Douglas 24, 108 NBA games
Williams 24, 160 NBA games
Mosgov 24, Rookie
AR 21, 113 NBA games

Really? These guys are what they are? Saying this group wont continue to improve is simply blowing smoke, especially when you consider the core guys in Chandler, Gallo, Fields and Mosgov are all high character guys with strong work ethics.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
Posts: 53837
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
2/15/2011  9:18 AM
Silverfuel wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Silverfuel wrote:
Nalod wrote:Whats wrong with being a .500 team?

We start two rookies and are one of the youngest teams?

Last year we did not win 30 games. We likely will by march 1st.

INcremental growth is an accomplishment.

Every young team or young players have the same problem: consistency!

Bring Melo if you must but not for the star power but for the basketball!


Are you saying Incremental growth is guaranteed? How do you know that Nalod? We will remain a .500 team because other than Amare all we have is role players.

there is no hedge there. If Amare or Melo gets hurt your a 32 win team with no draft picks.

Also riddle me this....

PG Billups
SG Bill Walker
SF Melo
PF Amare
C Mosgov
bench: Shawn Williams, Toney Douglas, Renaldo Balkman

Is that team better than Denvers? No picks. Is that team better then the Heat? If Billups were 28 years old I would be open. He's 35 and declining rapidly.


That team is better than the NYC team is right now.
and yes.. it is guaranteed. When you have a 7'1 rookie athletic center like Mosgov who has shown he's got a proven work ethic, doesnt party and has gotten better in a short time this year its guarenteed. Gallo and Chandler have both improved. Fields is only a rookie. All these guys are solid character guys who work very hard. How can you say growth wont happen? Its silly

That is very good of you to guarantee something like that. But I disagree. What you see in this Knick team I just don't see. What we have here is a disagreement on player potential. I cannot convince you and you cannot convince me so I will disregard your posts on the subject.

But that is not what misterearl is saying. He is saying there are no guarantees. That I can agree with. We are both dealing in the unknown. When we both don't know what will happen in the future, I like my chances with Melo + Amare over Gallo + Chandler + Fields.

what more would you need to see from your young players to know they will continue to grow?

I hope your REALLY high on Bill Walker, Toney Douglas and Shawn Williams cause those guys will be playing 30+ minutes.

"I like my chances with Melo + Amare over Gallo + Chandler + Fields"

You forgot to mention capped out and no first round picks either. Those are big factors moving forward. You cant dismiss that

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
skeng
Posts: 22090
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 10/27/2009
Member: #2959
Denmark
2/15/2011  9:22 AM
I can't help but to think that because STAT is who he is, and is in his prime, some people want to starphuch now. I wouldn't mind if we managed the team as OKC are. I mean, we have 4 starters who are 24 or younger.

The thing is that we are in much better shape either way.

Legalize di NBA
Silverfuel
Posts: 31750
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 6/27/2002
Member: #268
USA
2/15/2011  9:26 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/15/2011  9:28 AM
fishmike wrote:what more would you need to see from your young players to know they will continue to grow?

this is our disagreement. i just don't see anymore significant growth from Gallo and Chandler. Fields is my favorite Knick right now and I would HATE to see him go. I really would but I can live with it.

So to anyone in the Knick organization that is reading this thread, please take a count of YEA or NAY. Tell Donnie to finish what he started 3 years ago.

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
fishmike
Posts: 53837
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
2/15/2011  9:29 AM
silverfuel... these may not be great players but the are good players. They are also young and in rookie contract (except for Chandler). Melo isnt Lebron. He's got a price and its not that of a once in a generation player.

Whats the price for Melo? Anything? How many playoff series are the Knicks winning with Melo, Amare and scrap heap players as you have just used all your cap space and have no first rounders? Is that the team you want to see? Melo, Amare and a bunch of guys like Eddie House and Earl Barron? Thats not winning anything

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
SlimChin
Posts: 20588
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/5/2011
Member: #3363
2/15/2011  9:31 AM
Silverfuel wrote:
fishmike wrote:what more would you need to see from your young players to know they will continue to grow?

this is our disagreement. i just don't see anymore significant growth from Gallo and Chandler. Fields is my favorite Knick right now and I would HATE to see him go. I really would but I can live with it.

So to anyone in the Knick organization that is reading this thread, please take a head count or YEA or NAY. Tell Donnie to finish what he started 3 years ago.

i agree.
Nalod
Posts: 71178
Alba Posts: 155
Joined: 12/24/2003
Member: #508
USA
2/15/2011  9:32 AM

Silver,

There are no guarantee's my man.

Its based on faith. "faith is an unsubstantiated belief".

YOu have faith in bringing in Starpower and worry about the rest. Thats your call.

Im pointing to the fact that some are panicking after 50 games. Rebuilding even with stars is a long process.

Championships are won with depth and chemistry on top of talent. Few teams are able to do this.

Incremental growth is what you are seeing before your very eyes. This had no chemistry last year and no culture of any accountability.

MDA was bought in prematurely to cultivate as best he could our yoots and manage expiring contract divas. Not easy.

Last summer we cleaned house and added our alpha. The team this year has both underachieved and over achieved in spots.

The mark of a young team is consistancy.

If you don't see it, then thats your take.

Everyone wants a winner and bringing in Melo has some in belief that assures success.

Boils down to faith. Faith has no guarantees.
fishmike
Posts: 53837
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
2/15/2011  9:34 AM
Silverfuel wrote:
fishmike wrote:what more would you need to see from your young players to know they will continue to grow?

this is our disagreement. i just don't see anymore significant growth from Gallo and Chandler. Fields is my favorite Knick right now and I would HATE to see him go. I really would but I can live with it.

So to anyone in the Knick organization that is reading this thread, please take a count of YEA or NAY. Tell Donnie to finish what he started 3 years ago.

Was Gallo able to get to the line and draw contact last year like he has this year? Dude hasnt even played 2 whole seasons yet. I get you dont like him, but he's improve within THIS year alone.

What Donnie started was to clear out the mess and fill the team with young talent. Trading some of it away for a bigger piece is fine, but you over pay and its a set back.

Is Melo worth Gallo, Fields, Felton, all our cap space and first rounders? Wow... I dont see that.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BigSm00th
Posts: 24504
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 12/9/2001
Member: #178
USA
2/15/2011  9:38 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/15/2011  9:41 AM
fishmike wrote:
Silverfuel wrote:
fishmike wrote:what more would you need to see from your young players to know they will continue to grow?

this is our disagreement. i just don't see anymore significant growth from Gallo and Chandler. Fields is my favorite Knick right now and I would HATE to see him go. I really would but I can live with it.

So to anyone in the Knick organization that is reading this thread, please take a count of YEA or NAY. Tell Donnie to finish what he started 3 years ago.

Was Gallo able to get to the line and draw contact last year like he has this year? Dude hasnt even played 2 whole seasons yet. I get you dont like him, but he's improve within THIS year alone.

What Donnie started was to clear out the mess and fill the team with young talent. Trading some of it away for a bigger piece is fine, but you over pay and its a set back.

Is Melo worth Gallo, Fields, Felton, all our cap space and first rounders? Wow... I dont see that.

It is believed that Walsh and Mike D'Antoni feel the team would be giving up too much. Garden chairman James Dolan has had direct involvement in the negotiations and may ultimately overrule his basketball staff.

it is all up to fat jimmy. i think walsh has played his cards right and will get a good deal. if dolan intervenes we are screwed.

once again, i'd rather keep fields over gallo and chandler. i think he's a better fit (better contract situation with wil becoming an RFA at season's end, better fit on the court as a true 2).

#Knickstaps
Silverfuel
Posts: 31750
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 6/27/2002
Member: #268
USA
2/15/2011  9:43 AM
fishmike wrote:Whats the price for Melo? Anything?

It depends on the situation. I don't know what kind of offers Donnie Walsh is fielding. I don't know his options and I don't know his contingency plans. IMO, none of us do. But like TMS says in all his posts, no one will advocate gutting the team. Thats where I am going to rely on DWs negotiating skills. This trade needs to happen because until then, his 3 year plan is incomplete.

I know the front office is reading this forum so I hope they are keeping count.

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Silverfuel
Posts: 31750
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 6/27/2002
Member: #268
USA
2/15/2011  9:44 AM
Nalod wrote:Boils down to faith. Faith has no guarantees.

Exactly. There are no guarantees. I just don't see the incremental growth amounting to anything. You see differently. But I like the teams chances with Melo + Amare because other than Amare, we have a bunch of role players.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
JohnWallace44
Posts: 25119
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 6/14/2005
Member: #910
USA
2/15/2011  9:45 AM
The journalism on this story is terrible.

ESPN's bottom line is reading that the Nug's want this:
- Felton
- Gallo
- Curry
- at least 1 number 1 pick

And they're citing the Daily News, but the actual article reads differently. NYDN article reads that the Nug's want:
- Felton
- Gallo
- Curry
- at least 1 #1
- an additional starter

So the Nuggies are asking for Gallo, Felton, AR (to get the #1) and either Chandler or Mozgov or Fields.

That's a hefty price. If you traded Moz you'd be left with...

Billups
Fields
Melo
Chandler
Stat

Barron?, Williams, Walker, TD, Turiaf

Ah screw it, let's do it....

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
Page 2 of 14 ‹ Previous 1  2  3  4 Next ›Last »
« Reply To Topic
Sure, Gut The Team And Throw In Landry Fields While You're At It
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy