nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:
In a world of instant gratification MDA is a failure.

216 games?

Are you being dense on purpose? We all know the 1st two years weren't really about putting together a winning team, so why do you and others keep bringing it up? We really only this year can take a fresh and serious look at the job Mike is doing. Overall he's a bit behind what I expected, but right on target for what many expected with a .500 team.

Now we've been on a down trend, but this entire season has been one of streaks. It just so happens to also be that time of the year when trade rumors have killed rebuilding teams like this one and so we have to view that as part of the problem too. No one was saying this crap when we were several games above .500, but all of a sudden the guy can't coach and should be fired. He's gonna get the rest of the year and i'm sure that he'll be judged fairly after that.

Don't go there with personal attacks. If you are ok with all of the nonsense and drama that went on last year that is fine. Then we disagree but the coach has been here for two and a half years and he has made a lot of mistakes during that time not just the last 52 games.

You still make it sound like this year has been a failure, when so far that's not the case. Having a .500 record with a team that MOST think is pretty much a .500 team anyway, is not a failure. Some of us think the team has the potential to play a bit above .500 while others feel that's about what they should be. In either case they've played above .500 for a good portion of the season and only just now have fallen to .500. Let's not make it out to be a season long thing when it only just now has happened.

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:
In a world of instant gratification MDA is a failure.

216 games?

Are you being dense on purpose? We all know the 1st two years weren't really about putting together a winning team, so why do you and others keep bringing it up? We really only this year can take a fresh and serious look at the job Mike is doing. Overall he's a bit behind what I expected, but right on target for what many expected with a .500 team.

Now we've been on a down trend, but this entire season has been one of streaks. It just so happens to also be that time of the year when trade rumors have killed rebuilding teams like this one and so we have to view that as part of the problem too. No one was saying this crap when we were several games above .500, but all of a sudden the guy can't coach and should be fired. He's gonna get the rest of the year and i'm sure that he'll be judged fairly after that.

Don't go there with personal attacks. If you are ok with all of the nonsense and drama that went on last year that is fine. Then we disagree but the coach has been here for two and a half years and he has made a lot of mistakes during that time not just the last 52 games.

You still make it sound like this year has been a failure, when so far that's not the case. Having a .500 record with a team that MOST think is pretty much a .500 team anyway, is not a failure. Some of us think the team has the potential to play a bit above .500 while others feel that's about what they should be. In either case they've played above .500 for a good portion of the season and only just now have fallen to .500. Let's not make it out to be a season long thing when it only just now has happened.

My point is that he has been here for 2 1/2 seasons and I was replying to a post about him not giving fans instant gratification. There is an article in the Post today how D'Antoni's tenure has been much longer than other NY coaches who struggled to get their teams to win. D'Antoni made a lot of mistakes last year and in my opinion.

I really don't think anyone cares about what he did last year. To be honest I don't see the point of making any judgement on his coaching from last year when it was all about getting ready for the FA market. There's just no real fare way to judge a coach with a team that knows that it's gonna be broken up and is already looking towards their next stop. THIS YEAR is a much more valid year to judge Mike on. If you feel he should be fired if the team is a failure this year then it is totally understandable. I just think we all know that the 1st 2 years weren't about winning as that was Donnie's plan to tear it down in preparation for the 2010 FA Market.

TMS wrote:i would give MDA the rest of the season to see if he can get this team into the playoffs & at least look like they're competing... depending on how the team finishes the season i might seriously reconsider other coaching options, but right now we're so heavily invested into this guy & his system that turning back in the middle of the season will only set us back another year... God knows i'm not happy w/the way this system is run & i think there are fundamental problems when you're so heavily reliant on the 3 ball & play no defense, but we've come too far to not let this play out at least until the end of this season... this is really the only time MDA's had a halfway decent roster to work with since he's been here so he deserves at least a full season with a decent roster to prove to Knicks fans that he's the man for the job.

I agree it's a reasonable thing to give him the full year, before anyone talks about a change. To be honest, this trade thing has been wild. I think we'll really know the truth after the trade deadline. If the team can close out the season strong, then I think he'll have earned a shot to comeback the next season. If he can't pull this team together after the deadline, then it's fare to look at a change.

3 guys have been off their game of late, Chandler, Gallo and Felton. That's a huge part of the rotation to be playing poorly. To me they're just slumping and it has nothing to do with coaching. There's not much you can do when 3 of your top guys are in a mental funk. It's not like we can turn to some other players to step up. This is on the players IMO. They're the only ones that can fix this. Mike isn't gonna come up with some new offense or defense at this point. The players simply have to execute better. Those 3 guys step up consistently and this team wins games, PERIOD.

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:i would give MDA the rest of the season to see if he can get this team into the playoffs & at least look like they're competing... depending on how the team finishes the season i might seriously reconsider other coaching options, but right now we're so heavily invested into this guy & his system that turning back in the middle of the season will only set us back another year... God knows i'm not happy w/the way this system is run & i think there are fundamental problems when you're so heavily reliant on the 3 ball & play no defense, but we've come too far to not let this play out at least until the end of this season... this is really the only time MDA's had a halfway decent roster to work with since he's been here so he deserves at least a full season with a decent roster to prove to Knicks fans that he's the man for the job.

I agree it's a reasonable thing to give him the full year, before anyone talks about a change. To be honest, this trade thing has been wild. I think we'll really know the truth after the trade deadline. If the team can close out the season strong, then I think he'll have earned a shot to comeback the next season. If he can't pull this team together after the deadline, then it's fare to look at a change.

3 guys have been off their game of late, Chandler, Gallo and Felton. That's a huge part of the rotation to be playing poorly. To me they're just slumping and it has nothing to do with coaching. There's not much you can do when 3 of your top guys are in a mental funk. It's not like we can turn to some other players to step up. This is on the players IMO. They're the only ones that can fix this. Mike isn't gonna come up with some new offense or defense at this point. The players simply have to execute better. Those 3 guys step up consistently and this team wins games, PERIOD.

i'm not going that far... i think the same defensive lapses, lack of focus & intensity & bad shot selection has plagued this team that has plagued the past 2 teams under MDA's watch... that doesn't fall solely on the players IMO, the coach needs to be held accountable if his players consistently make the same mistakes... the talent is better no question but i need to see these players bringing a lot more intensity during games than they've done this season for me to give him props for doing a great job.

CrushAlot wrote:

martin wrote:For me this article feels like it was written by a young person who intended to criticize but really ended up padding his own ego and self instead of putting some coherent arguments together.

The guy that wrote signed it, "The Sage" so I don't think that is the case.

Did anyone else catch this little nugget?

martin: feels like a child wrote it
crushalot: nah, he signed it "the sage", he's obviously wise and mature

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:Landry Fields, Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, Anthony Randolph, Ronny Turiaf, Toney Douglas, Ray Felton : all of those guys are more than capable defenders... i think MDA's got enough players with a defensive mindset to work with he should be having these guys playing better defense than they're playing right now.

I don't know what it is, but I do know that his PHX teams were better defensively than this team and I would think he's trying even harder now to get the players to buy in on D. I thought we might approach the middle of the pack defensively with this team. He was always around there with his PHX teams. Still this team just isn't as good right now. You can show players what they need to do, but they still have to be committed to putting in the Max effort. I can't say that i've seen that in the recent losing this team has succumb to. If anything this team should be getting better on D, not worse. IMO it's all mental. When your head isn't right, you don't concentrate as well and you make mistakes on D. Really we see on offense too, so something is off with many of the players right now.

regardless even in Phoenix he had Boris Diaw, Raja Bell, Kurt Thomas, Steven Hunter, Leandro Barbosa, Shawn Marion, all excellent defensive players in their own right & yet his teams were never known as a defensively great... that is a fundamental problem w/his philosophy, not in the players he's coaching... his system relies on a high volume of possessions and 3 ball proficiency to bombard the opponent with high octane offense, that is his bread & butter... i don't think the defensive deficiencies are gonna change until he changes his coaching philosophy, which is obviously not going to happen.

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:Landry Fields, Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, Anthony Randolph, Ronny Turiaf, Toney Douglas, Ray Felton : all of those guys are more than capable defenders... i think MDA's got enough players with a defensive mindset to work with he should be having these guys playing better defense than they're playing right now.

I don't know what it is, but I do know that his PHX teams were better defensively than this team and I would think he's trying even harder now to get the players to buy in on D. I thought we might approach the middle of the pack defensively with this team. He was always around there with his PHX teams. Still this team just isn't as good right now. You can show players what they need to do, but they still have to be committed to putting in the Max effort. I can't say that i've seen that in the recent losing this team has succumb to. If anything this team should be getting better on D, not worse. IMO it's all mental. When your head isn't right, you don't concentrate as well and you make mistakes on D. Really we see on offense too, so something is off with many of the players right now.

regardless even in Phoenix he had Boris Diaw, Raja Bell, Kurt Thomas, Steven Hunter, Leandro Barbosa, Shawn Marion, all excellent defensive players in their own right & yet his teams were never known as a defensively great... that is a fundamental problem w/his philosophy, not in the players he's coaching... his system relies on a high volume of possessions and 3 ball proficiency to bombard the opponent with high octane offense, that is his bread & butter... i don't think the defensive deficiencies are gonna change until he changes his coaching philosophy, which is obviously not going to happen.

In 2005-06 PHX was 4th in the NBA in Point Diff @ +5.6
In 2006-07 PHX was 2nd in the NBA in Point Diff @ +7.3
In 2007-08 PHX was 7th in the NBA in Point Diff @ +5.1

Right now the Knicks are tied for 15th in the League @ +0.1. We had been better than that for a good while. Still it shows that we just don't get stops, even tho we've had many games where we score a lot. Teams shoot too high a % against us and we're still not as efficient as we need to be. Mike's 05-06 team allowed 45%FG and this Knicks team is at 47%. Not to mention the lack of rebounding.

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:Landry Fields, Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, Anthony Randolph, Ronny Turiaf, Toney Douglas, Ray Felton : all of those guys are more than capable defenders... i think MDA's got enough players with a defensive mindset to work with he should be having these guys playing better defense than they're playing right now.

I don't know what it is, but I do know that his PHX teams were better defensively than this team and I would think he's trying even harder now to get the players to buy in on D. I thought we might approach the middle of the pack defensively with this team. He was always around there with his PHX teams. Still this team just isn't as good right now. You can show players what they need to do, but they still have to be committed to putting in the Max effort. I can't say that i've seen that in the recent losing this team has succumb to. If anything this team should be getting better on D, not worse. IMO it's all mental. When your head isn't right, you don't concentrate as well and you make mistakes on D. Really we see on offense too, so something is off with many of the players right now.

regardless even in Phoenix he had Boris Diaw, Raja Bell, Kurt Thomas, Steven Hunter, Leandro Barbosa, Shawn Marion, all excellent defensive players in their own right & yet his teams were never known as a defensively great... that is a fundamental problem w/his philosophy, not in the players he's coaching... his system relies on a high volume of possessions and 3 ball proficiency to bombard the opponent with high octane offense, that is his bread & butter... i don't think the defensive deficiencies are gonna change until he changes his coaching philosophy, which is obviously not going to happen.

My point is that there's a good distance between what this team has been able to accomplish with the same defensive system. His system produced solid Point Differentials in the past, but we can't get anywhere close to that. At some point his teams in the past got stops, cuz that's the only way you become a good team in terms of Point Diff. IF you never really defend, then you can't really expect a high Point Diff verses bigtime competition in the Western Conference. He's the same coach, with the same playbook and philosophy. The only difference is the players, so I have to lay some of that on the guys we have on this team not doing what they're being coached to do.

In 2005-06 PHX was 4th in the NBA in Point Diff @ +5.6
In 2006-07 PHX was 2nd in the NBA in Point Diff @ +7.3
In 2007-08 PHX was 7th in the NBA in Point Diff @ +5.1

Right now the Knicks are tied for 15th in the League @ +0.1. We had been better than that for a good while. Still it shows that we just don't get stops, even tho we've had many games where we score a lot. Teams shoot too high a % against us and we're still not as efficient as we need to be. Mike's 05-06 team allowed 45%FG and this Knicks team is at 47%. Not to mention the lack of rebounding.

ur right but my point is MDA's philosophy to achieve pt differential to win games is by bombarding the opponent with offensive possessions & shot attempts, a large part of that also being 3 pointers... this is the way he tries to win games, not by slowing down the pace & getting defensive stops... that's not the way he wants his teams to play.

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:Landry Fields, Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, Anthony Randolph, Ronny Turiaf, Toney Douglas, Ray Felton : all of those guys are more than capable defenders... i think MDA's got enough players with a defensive mindset to work with he should be having these guys playing better defense than they're playing right now.

I don't know what it is, but I do know that his PHX teams were better defensively than this team and I would think he's trying even harder now to get the players to buy in on D. I thought we might approach the middle of the pack defensively with this team. He was always around there with his PHX teams. Still this team just isn't as good right now. You can show players what they need to do, but they still have to be committed to putting in the Max effort. I can't say that i've seen that in the recent losing this team has succumb to. If anything this team should be getting better on D, not worse. IMO it's all mental. When your head isn't right, you don't concentrate as well and you make mistakes on D. Really we see on offense too, so something is off with many of the players right now.

regardless even in Phoenix he had Boris Diaw, Raja Bell, Kurt Thomas, Steven Hunter, Leandro Barbosa, Shawn Marion, all excellent defensive players in their own right & yet his teams were never known as a defensively great... that is a fundamental problem w/his philosophy, not in the players he's coaching... his system relies on a high volume of possessions and 3 ball proficiency to bombard the opponent with high octane offense, that is his bread & butter... i don't think the defensive deficiencies are gonna change until he changes his coaching philosophy, which is obviously not going to happen.

Papabear Says

Amen

The fact is teams have figured out D'ANtoni's predictable offense and we haven't even been scoring well. In the meantime the defense is well below average and the team lacks focus, which is more a culture issue than a talent one.

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nixluva wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:
In a world of instant gratification MDA is a failure.

216 games?

Are you being dense on purpose? We all know the 1st two years weren't really about putting together a winning team, so why do you and others keep bringing it up? We really only this year can take a fresh and serious look at the job Mike is doing. Overall he's a bit behind what I expected, but right on target for what many expected with a .500 team.

Now we've been on a down trend, but this entire season has been one of streaks. It just so happens to also be that time of the year when trade rumors have killed rebuilding teams like this one and so we have to view that as part of the problem too. No one was saying this crap when we were several games above .500, but all of a sudden the guy can't coach and should be fired. He's gonna get the rest of the year and i'm sure that he'll be judged fairly after that.

Don't go there with personal attacks. If you are ok with all of the nonsense and drama that went on last year that is fine. Then we disagree but the coach has been here for two and a half years and he has made a lot of mistakes during that time not just the last 52 games.

You still make it sound like this year has been a failure, when so far that's not the case. Having a .500 record with a team that MOST think is pretty much a .500 team anyway, is not a failure. Some of us think the team has the potential to play a bit above .500 while others feel that's about what they should be. In either case they've played above .500 for a good portion of the season and only just now have fallen to .500. Let's not make it out to be a season long thing when it only just now has happened.