NYKBocker wrote:I wouldn't be heart broken if Felton was added into the deal. This deal works as per realgm.com

NY Knicks
Outgoing - Curry, Felton, Chandler, Azabuike, Rautins, AR
Incoming - Melo, Billups

Denver Nuggets
Outgoing - Melo, Billups
Incoming - Felton, Chandler, Brewer, Azabuike, 1st rounder from Minny

Minnesota Timberwolves
Outgoing - Brewer, 1st rounder
Incoming - AR, Rautins, Curry

Why would Denver do it? They have no leverage and while this is not really the true market value for Melo this should be the best they can get in this situation. They get a younger Felton instead of Billups and Azabuile's expiring contract. They get a proven young player in Wilson. Potential in Brewer and a mid first rounder.

Why would Minny do it? They finally get their man in AR and big expiring contract that can save them a lot of money. A potential cheap role player in Rautins. They are losing Brewer and this might be the lone hicup. How much do they really value him? Brewer has under achieved in Minny.

Why would the Knicks do it? They get Melo finally but only giving up 1 of the 3 young core players. We were going to lose Chandler anyways in the summer if we sign Melo as UFA. The only hicup is how much does Donnie and MDA think Billups has left in the tank? Do they think we will not miss a beat or would the loss of our floor general equate to a drastic dip in the standings?

Personally, I would do it. I am not too married on Felton. I love his bulldog mentality but his propensity to go all Dinglebury really irritates me. I love my point guards to be pass first. We would lose his penetrating abilities but Billups ability to shoot 3s and his vision is really very enticing.

Where's Denver's cap relief (a problem with proposed deal that we've all heard about)? Who plays point for NY next year? I'm just askin'...

orangeblobman wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

orangeblobman wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

orangeblobman wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

orangeblobman wrote:Felton is not critical for this team. He's a placeholder, not a long-term solution. Billups is more mature, worldly. He can drop the trey bucket at a stupid percentage, gets to the line like a drunk man, and he'll make it happen for his teammates.

Even at 35 years of life, he's an upgrade for this team.

As far as Melo bringing baggage, I don't think Melo has any beefs with Billups. Melo's problem is the organization as a whole, where it's going.

I disagree with everything except the part about him being a placeholder. I think Felton took a short term contract to up his value for the next one. The longer this Melodramarama drags on, the more I believe the plan is Paul/Melo/Amar'e

I think so too, Felton is taking this deal to boost his value.

Which means we have another Al Harrington situation. And I think that's a disaster.

Billups is at a different stage of his career. He's not motivated by selfish goals. He would be a strong veteran presence, would anchor our young guys.

If Felton is a place holder, why not add Billups as the starting point while he is still playing at an elite level and then allow him to slip into a back-up role if CP3 comes.

Felton's attitude is no where near as poor as Al Harrington's. I love Ray's demeanor and his toughness. He's a great example for the Yoots. If he gets a bigger contract, good for him, he's earned it. He's performed as a top-10 PG this year and will benefit from NY exposure, as opposed to Charlotte.

I was happy with the signing as the time but he's far exceeded my expectations. Which is exactly why Denver wants to upgrade from Billups to Felton.

No, his attitude is nowhere near Al's, but their motivation is the same, no matter how much better Felton is at masking it.

His toughness and demeanor are to be commended, but they're inconsequential if they're based on a faulty foundation, an impure GameView(GV) (which is "...a way of seeing the game, not the court, it's the way a player visualizes his role in the team, the offense, and this dictates how he acts in a game. ")

Let Denver think they're getting an upgrade, and they might be, at an individual level, disconnected from their team as a whole. But what Chauncey can do for us at a team level is much more valuable than what Felton is doing for us now.

I think a shrewd observer of the game like Donnie recognizes this, and if he is able to get Billups here he will be king.

the backbone of the American economy is incentivized production. You do your job well, you get paid.

You keep posting this GameView stuff as it relates to Felton... this is misguided. Amar'e, Felton, and Fields are the biggest reasons the Knicks have a winning record. Everyone else has been terribly inconsistent and unreliable. I would sya his no excuses attitude is a TERRIFIC GameView and has undid some of the harm to the young Knicks caused by Isiah's ways and his players' attitudes

I keep saying this: Ray Felton is the best Knicks point gurad since Derek Harper. Why not be thanksful for what he does bring to the table instead of skewering him for his flaws?

Like a lot of fans, he's misguided in thinking individual numbers will lead him to the best possible results. Although not obvious at a glance, a team oriented mindset will always yield the greatest positive returns, for the individual and the team, even if it costs a few points off a player's average.

Billups has the proper GV, Felton does not. Billups understands that what's good for the team is good for him, even if it costs him a few points per game.

good post OBM, as I said before, forget stats, give me someone who can control tempo, the flow of the game, and then look for shots afterwards..

GustavBahler wrote:I'd rather have Billups running the point in the playoffs.

i agree with this. if you have to give up felton to get melo and billups you do it. i dont think anyone here would be disappointed at what a guy like billups brings to a team come playoff time. billups can run the point very efficiently and adds a go to guy at the end of games that can hit a shot when you need it. in total, you go from a team that has one and a half (i'll give felton 1/2 credit) guys that you can rely on to get a shot off in the final seconds when you need one to 3 guys (amare is pretty darn good but melo and chauncy are stone cold killers when the game is on the line) who could kill you from just about anywhere on the court.

jimimou wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I'd rather have Billups running the point in the playoffs.

i agree with this. if you have to give up felton to get melo and billups you do it. i dont think anyone here would be disappointed at what a guy like billups brings to a team come playoff time. billups can run the point very efficiently and adds a go to guy at the end of games that can hit a shot when you need it. in total, you go from a team that has one and a half (i'll give felton 1/2 credit) guys that you can rely on to get a shot off in the final seconds when you need one to 3 guys (amare is pretty darn good but melo and chauncy are stone cold killers when the game is on the line) who could kill you from just about anywhere on the court.

Markji wrote:

jimimou wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I'd rather have Billups running the point in the playoffs.

i agree with this. if you have to give up felton to get melo and billups you do it. i dont think anyone here would be disappointed at what a guy like billups brings to a team come playoff time. billups can run the point very efficiently and adds a go to guy at the end of games that can hit a shot when you need it. in total, you go from a team that has one and a half (i'll give felton 1/2 credit) guys that you can rely on to get a shot off in the final seconds when you need one to 3 guys (amare is pretty darn good but melo and chauncy are stone cold killers when the game is on the line) who could kill you from just about anywhere on the court.

Correct!
This deal isn't about comparing Felton to Billups, it is about getting Melo. Period.
Billups replaces Felton at point. Both have their pluses and minuses, but the real news is that we would get Melo without having to gut the team.

right. Just want to restate I'm in favor of including Felton if it nets Melo. Just don't want to understate Felton's contribution to the best Knicks team of the past decade

abs wrote:

grillco wrote:Again, I don't see how this deal can get done as Melo and Chauncy make a combined $33.7 million, more that half of the Knicks payroll. So even if you like the idea, you've got to realize that it would truly require a gutting of the team and its chemistry to go down. It may help to "gut the team to get Melo, but it would be mandatory to land Melo and RENT Billups for a year. And then who is the starting point next year?

billups is a vet chemistry will be fine as far as gutting team you are swapping 2 starters for 2 starters other guyz in deal have not played for the most part all year..billups has atleast 2 yrs left in tank given the scoring powering we will have...

But Donnie isn't looking to add $14.2 in salary for next season, so he's no long term solution AND he just wants to stay and finish career in hometown.

abs wrote:

grillco wrote:

abs wrote:

grillco wrote:Again, I don't see how this deal can get done as Melo and Chauncy make a combined $33.7 million, more that half of the Knicks payroll. So even if you like the idea, you've got to realize that it would truly require a gutting of the team and its chemistry to go down. It may help to "gut the team to get Melo, but it would be mandatory to land Melo and RENT Billups for a year. And then who is the starting point next year?

billups is a vet chemistry will be fine as far as gutting team you are swapping 2 starters for 2 starters other guyz in deal have not played for the most part all year..billups has atleast 2 yrs left in tank given the scoring powering we will have...

But Donnie isn't looking to add $14.2 in salary for next season, so he's no long term solution AND he just wants to stay and finish career in hometown.

as has been talked about the goal is to get melo...he is 35 so agree he is not long term solution...if we have to add salary to get it done rather add him over harrington as denver wants to save money...think he will enjoy playing with knicks even though he would finish career in the rocky mountains

I know the goal, EVERYONE knows the goal, but making a switch of Felton for Billups, finagling the deal to get the players and picks that Denver actually wants (if their even giving the Knicks a straight answer on that front, as they haven't to date), wasting time and money on buyouts...it's just so ridiculously superfluous.

grillco wrote:

abs wrote:

grillco wrote:

abs wrote:

grillco wrote:Again, I don't see how this deal can get done as Melo and Chauncy make a combined $33.7 million, more that half of the Knicks payroll. So even if you like the idea, you've got to realize that it would truly require a gutting of the team and its chemistry to go down. It may help to "gut the team to get Melo, but it would be mandatory to land Melo and RENT Billups for a year. And then who is the starting point next year?

billups is a vet chemistry will be fine as far as gutting team you are swapping 2 starters for 2 starters other guyz in deal have not played for the most part all year..billups has atleast 2 yrs left in tank given the scoring powering we will have...

But Donnie isn't looking to add $14.2 in salary for next season, so he's no long term solution AND he just wants to stay and finish career in hometown.

as has been talked about the goal is to get melo...he is 35 so agree he is not long term solution...if we have to add salary to get it done rather add him over harrington as denver wants to save money...think he will enjoy playing with knicks even though he would finish career in the rocky mountains

I know the goal, EVERYONE knows the goal, but making a switch of Felton for Billups, finagling the deal to get the players and picks that Denver actually wants (if their even giving the Knicks a straight answer on that front, as they haven't to date), wasting time and money on buyouts...it's just so ridiculously superfluous.