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So the Daily Spew is saying that Felton might be part of a potential deal...
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grillco
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2/9/2011  10:56 AM
Again, I don't see how this deal can get done as Melo and Chauncy make a combined $33.7 million, more that half of the Knicks payroll. So even if you like the idea, you've got to realize that it would truly require a gutting of the team and its chemistry to go down. It may help to "gut the team to get Melo, but it would be mandatory to land Melo and RENT Billups for a year. And then who is the starting point next year?
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grillco
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2/9/2011  10:58 AM
NYKBocker wrote:I wouldn't be heart broken if Felton was added into the deal. This deal works as per realgm.com

NY Knicks
Outgoing - Curry, Felton, Chandler, Azabuike, Rautins, AR
Incoming - Melo, Billups

Denver Nuggets
Outgoing - Melo, Billups
Incoming - Felton, Chandler, Brewer, Azabuike, 1st rounder from Minny

Minnesota Timberwolves
Outgoing - Brewer, 1st rounder
Incoming - AR, Rautins, Curry

Why would Denver do it? They have no leverage and while this is not really the true market value for Melo this should be the best they can get in this situation. They get a younger Felton instead of Billups and Azabuile's expiring contract. They get a proven young player in Wilson. Potential in Brewer and a mid first rounder.

Why would Minny do it? They finally get their man in AR and big expiring contract that can save them a lot of money. A potential cheap role player in Rautins. They are losing Brewer and this might be the lone hicup. How much do they really value him? Brewer has under achieved in Minny.

Why would the Knicks do it? They get Melo finally but only giving up 1 of the 3 young core players. We were going to lose Chandler anyways in the summer if we sign Melo as UFA. The only hicup is how much does Donnie and MDA think Billups has left in the tank? Do they think we will not miss a beat or would the loss of our floor general equate to a drastic dip in the standings?

Personally, I would do it. I am not too married on Felton. I love his bulldog mentality but his propensity to go all Dinglebury really irritates me. I love my point guards to be pass first. We would lose his penetrating abilities but Billups ability to shoot 3s and his vision is really very enticing.

Where's Denver's cap relief (a problem with proposed deal that we've all heard about)? Who plays point for NY next year? I'm just askin'...

SupremeCommander
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2/9/2011  11:01 AM
grillco wrote:
NYKBocker wrote:I wouldn't be heart broken if Felton was added into the deal. This deal works as per realgm.com

NY Knicks
Outgoing - Curry, Felton, Chandler, Azabuike, Rautins, AR
Incoming - Melo, Billups

Denver Nuggets
Outgoing - Melo, Billups
Incoming - Felton, Chandler, Brewer, Azabuike, 1st rounder from Minny

Minnesota Timberwolves
Outgoing - Brewer, 1st rounder
Incoming - AR, Rautins, Curry

Why would Denver do it? They have no leverage and while this is not really the true market value for Melo this should be the best they can get in this situation. They get a younger Felton instead of Billups and Azabuile's expiring contract. They get a proven young player in Wilson. Potential in Brewer and a mid first rounder.

Why would Minny do it? They finally get their man in AR and big expiring contract that can save them a lot of money. A potential cheap role player in Rautins. They are losing Brewer and this might be the lone hicup. How much do they really value him? Brewer has under achieved in Minny.

Why would the Knicks do it? They get Melo finally but only giving up 1 of the 3 young core players. We were going to lose Chandler anyways in the summer if we sign Melo as UFA. The only hicup is how much does Donnie and MDA think Billups has left in the tank? Do they think we will not miss a beat or would the loss of our floor general equate to a drastic dip in the standings?

Personally, I would do it. I am not too married on Felton. I love his bulldog mentality but his propensity to go all Dinglebury really irritates me. I love my point guards to be pass first. We would lose his penetrating abilities but Billups ability to shoot 3s and his vision is really very enticing.

Where's Denver's cap relief (a problem with proposed deal that we've all heard about)? Who plays point for NY next year? I'm just askin'...

They take on less salary this year, Buike's contract is insured at 80 percent, Felton makes half as much as Billups, maybe sign and trade Chandler

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
GustavBahler
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2/9/2011  11:07 AM
I'd rather have Billups running the point in the playoffs.
abs
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2/9/2011  11:13 AM
grillco wrote:Again, I don't see how this deal can get done as Melo and Chauncy make a combined $33.7 million, more that half of the Knicks payroll. So even if you like the idea, you've got to realize that it would truly require a gutting of the team and its chemistry to go down. It may help to "gut the team to get Melo, but it would be mandatory to land Melo and RENT Billups for a year. And then who is the starting point next year?
billups is a vet chemistry will be fine as far as gutting team you are swapping 2 starters for 2 starters other guyz in deal have not played for the most part all year..billups has atleast 2 yrs left in tank given the scoring powering we will have...
tkf
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2/9/2011  11:15 AM
orangeblobman wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
orangeblobman wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
orangeblobman wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
orangeblobman wrote:Felton is not critical for this team. He's a placeholder, not a long-term solution. Billups is more mature, worldly. He can drop the trey bucket at a stupid percentage, gets to the line like a drunk man, and he'll make it happen for his teammates.

Even at 35 years of life, he's an upgrade for this team.

As far as Melo bringing baggage, I don't think Melo has any beefs with Billups. Melo's problem is the organization as a whole, where it's going.

I disagree with everything except the part about him being a placeholder. I think Felton took a short term contract to up his value for the next one. The longer this Melodramarama drags on, the more I believe the plan is Paul/Melo/Amar'e

I think so too, Felton is taking this deal to boost his value.

Which means we have another Al Harrington situation. And I think that's a disaster.

Billups is at a different stage of his career. He's not motivated by selfish goals. He would be a strong veteran presence, would anchor our young guys.

If Felton is a place holder, why not add Billups as the starting point while he is still playing at an elite level and then allow him to slip into a back-up role if CP3 comes.

Felton's attitude is no where near as poor as Al Harrington's. I love Ray's demeanor and his toughness. He's a great example for the Yoots. If he gets a bigger contract, good for him, he's earned it. He's performed as a top-10 PG this year and will benefit from NY exposure, as opposed to Charlotte.

I was happy with the signing as the time but he's far exceeded my expectations. Which is exactly why Denver wants to upgrade from Billups to Felton.

No, his attitude is nowhere near Al's, but their motivation is the same, no matter how much better Felton is at masking it.

His toughness and demeanor are to be commended, but they're inconsequential if they're based on a faulty foundation, an impure GameView(GV) (which is "...a way of seeing the game, not the court, it's the way a player visualizes his role in the team, the offense, and this dictates how he acts in a game. ")

Let Denver think they're getting an upgrade, and they might be, at an individual level, disconnected from their team as a whole. But what Chauncey can do for us at a team level is much more valuable than what Felton is doing for us now.

I think a shrewd observer of the game like Donnie recognizes this, and if he is able to get Billups here he will be king.

the backbone of the American economy is incentivized production. You do your job well, you get paid.

You keep posting this GameView stuff as it relates to Felton... this is misguided. Amar'e, Felton, and Fields are the biggest reasons the Knicks have a winning record. Everyone else has been terribly inconsistent and unreliable. I would sya his no excuses attitude is a TERRIFIC GameView and has undid some of the harm to the young Knicks caused by Isiah's ways and his players' attitudes

I keep saying this: Ray Felton is the best Knicks point gurad since Derek Harper. Why not be thanksful for what he does bring to the table instead of skewering him for his flaws?

Like a lot of fans, he's misguided in thinking individual numbers will lead him to the best possible results. Although not obvious at a glance, a team oriented mindset will always yield the greatest positive returns, for the individual and the team, even if it costs a few points off a player's average.

Billups has the proper GV, Felton does not. Billups understands that what's good for the team is good for him, even if it costs him a few points per game.

good post OBM, as I said before, forget stats, give me someone who can control tempo, the flow of the game, and then look for shots afterwards..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
skeng
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2/9/2011  11:21 AM
How many years does Billups realistically have left in his tank? 2-3? Maybe 4?

If the NY Big 3 proposal from that wedding is legit (which is plausible), then I'd be down with trading Felton. If we can convince Billups to sign a contract a la Duhon's for 3-4 years, and then go on to sign CP3 at a little less than max, then we'd have one deep deep team. We'd have HIGH quality players at each position - with C as an exception. Which could be fixed solely because of our serious contending.

Gallo could operate as a 6th man along with Billups - depending on the matchups. That would be one fine second unit right there.

But I guess it's a long shot

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jimimou
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2/9/2011  11:22 AM
GustavBahler wrote:I'd rather have Billups running the point in the playoffs.

i agree with this. if you have to give up felton to get melo and billups you do it. i dont think anyone here would be disappointed at what a guy like billups brings to a team come playoff time. billups can run the point very efficiently and adds a go to guy at the end of games that can hit a shot when you need it. in total, you go from a team that has one and a half (i'll give felton 1/2 credit) guys that you can rely on to get a shot off in the final seconds when you need one to 3 guys (amare is pretty darn good but melo and chauncy are stone cold killers when the game is on the line) who could kill you from just about anywhere on the court.

SupremeCommander
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2/9/2011  11:25 AM
tkf wrote:
orangeblobman wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
orangeblobman wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
orangeblobman wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
orangeblobman wrote:Felton is not critical for this team. He's a placeholder, not a long-term solution. Billups is more mature, worldly. He can drop the trey bucket at a stupid percentage, gets to the line like a drunk man, and he'll make it happen for his teammates.

Even at 35 years of life, he's an upgrade for this team.

As far as Melo bringing baggage, I don't think Melo has any beefs with Billups. Melo's problem is the organization as a whole, where it's going.

I disagree with everything except the part about him being a placeholder. I think Felton took a short term contract to up his value for the next one. The longer this Melodramarama drags on, the more I believe the plan is Paul/Melo/Amar'e

I think so too, Felton is taking this deal to boost his value.

Which means we have another Al Harrington situation. And I think that's a disaster.

Billups is at a different stage of his career. He's not motivated by selfish goals. He would be a strong veteran presence, would anchor our young guys.

If Felton is a place holder, why not add Billups as the starting point while he is still playing at an elite level and then allow him to slip into a back-up role if CP3 comes.

Felton's attitude is no where near as poor as Al Harrington's. I love Ray's demeanor and his toughness. He's a great example for the Yoots. If he gets a bigger contract, good for him, he's earned it. He's performed as a top-10 PG this year and will benefit from NY exposure, as opposed to Charlotte.

I was happy with the signing as the time but he's far exceeded my expectations. Which is exactly why Denver wants to upgrade from Billups to Felton.

No, his attitude is nowhere near Al's, but their motivation is the same, no matter how much better Felton is at masking it.

His toughness and demeanor are to be commended, but they're inconsequential if they're based on a faulty foundation, an impure GameView(GV) (which is "...a way of seeing the game, not the court, it's the way a player visualizes his role in the team, the offense, and this dictates how he acts in a game. ")

Let Denver think they're getting an upgrade, and they might be, at an individual level, disconnected from their team as a whole. But what Chauncey can do for us at a team level is much more valuable than what Felton is doing for us now.

I think a shrewd observer of the game like Donnie recognizes this, and if he is able to get Billups here he will be king.

the backbone of the American economy is incentivized production. You do your job well, you get paid.

You keep posting this GameView stuff as it relates to Felton... this is misguided. Amar'e, Felton, and Fields are the biggest reasons the Knicks have a winning record. Everyone else has been terribly inconsistent and unreliable. I would sya his no excuses attitude is a TERRIFIC GameView and has undid some of the harm to the young Knicks caused by Isiah's ways and his players' attitudes

I keep saying this: Ray Felton is the best Knicks point gurad since Derek Harper. Why not be thanksful for what he does bring to the table instead of skewering him for his flaws?

Like a lot of fans, he's misguided in thinking individual numbers will lead him to the best possible results. Although not obvious at a glance, a team oriented mindset will always yield the greatest positive returns, for the individual and the team, even if it costs a few points off a player's average.

Billups has the proper GV, Felton does not. Billups understands that what's good for the team is good for him, even if it costs him a few points per game.

good post OBM, as I said before, forget stats, give me someone who can control tempo, the flow of the game, and then look for shots afterwards..

Billups has 34 less 3PA than Felton this season, while playing 6.2 MPG less. Yes, Billups hits a much higher percentage, but then that's a completely different argument than this one. Also, if you think Billups can maintain the NYK pace in the same minutes...

Which of course means there'll be a lot more of Toney Douglas running the point.

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
Markji
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2/9/2011  11:30 AM
jimimou wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I'd rather have Billups running the point in the playoffs.

i agree with this. if you have to give up felton to get melo and billups you do it. i dont think anyone here would be disappointed at what a guy like billups brings to a team come playoff time. billups can run the point very efficiently and adds a go to guy at the end of games that can hit a shot when you need it. in total, you go from a team that has one and a half (i'll give felton 1/2 credit) guys that you can rely on to get a shot off in the final seconds when you need one to 3 guys (amare is pretty darn good but melo and chauncy are stone cold killers when the game is on the line) who could kill you from just about anywhere on the court.

Correct!
This deal isn't about comparing Felton to Billups, it is about getting Melo. Period.
Billups replaces Felton at point. Both have their pluses and minuses, but the real news is that we would get Melo without having to gut the team.
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
Nalod
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2/9/2011  11:32 AM
Billups contract is what this is about. Its big, like 14mil big next year.

He can get bought out for 3.5 and perhaps resign for lower amount. The big thing here is the money and it fitting.

On the court his and feltons contract both expire at the same time.

on the basketball court he would be just fine.

Either one is good. Melo-Billups is an upgrade of Chandler-Felton.

I like felton and if he has melo on his wing his job gets easier.

If the ultimate goal is Chris Paul either will suffice. Felton does not have bilups resume but it took Billups a few years to build his up.

SupremeCommander
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2/9/2011  11:34 AM
Markji wrote:
jimimou wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:I'd rather have Billups running the point in the playoffs.

i agree with this. if you have to give up felton to get melo and billups you do it. i dont think anyone here would be disappointed at what a guy like billups brings to a team come playoff time. billups can run the point very efficiently and adds a go to guy at the end of games that can hit a shot when you need it. in total, you go from a team that has one and a half (i'll give felton 1/2 credit) guys that you can rely on to get a shot off in the final seconds when you need one to 3 guys (amare is pretty darn good but melo and chauncy are stone cold killers when the game is on the line) who could kill you from just about anywhere on the court.

Correct!
This deal isn't about comparing Felton to Billups, it is about getting Melo. Period.
Billups replaces Felton at point. Both have their pluses and minuses, but the real news is that we would get Melo without having to gut the team.

right. Just want to restate I'm in favor of including Felton if it nets Melo. Just don't want to understate Felton's contribution to the best Knicks team of the past decade

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
grillco
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2/9/2011  11:39 AM
GustavBahler wrote:I'd rather have Billups running the point in the playoffs.

This is good theory, but the while the Nuggets got the conference finals in his second season with Nuggs, they lost in the first round his first season and last year. They are a better team that he has gelled with and they still were just also rans last season. That's not going to really help the Knicks this season. Again I like Chauncey, but it's pointless to get him in NY. Also he just wants to finish his career in Denver. So Denver would screw him and the Knicks to dump his salary.

grillco
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2/9/2011  11:40 AM
abs wrote:
grillco wrote:Again, I don't see how this deal can get done as Melo and Chauncy make a combined $33.7 million, more that half of the Knicks payroll. So even if you like the idea, you've got to realize that it would truly require a gutting of the team and its chemistry to go down. It may help to "gut the team to get Melo, but it would be mandatory to land Melo and RENT Billups for a year. And then who is the starting point next year?
billups is a vet chemistry will be fine as far as gutting team you are swapping 2 starters for 2 starters other guyz in deal have not played for the most part all year..billups has atleast 2 yrs left in tank given the scoring powering we will have...

But Donnie isn't looking to add $14.2 in salary for next season, so he's no long term solution AND he just wants to stay and finish career in hometown.

abs
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2/9/2011  11:46 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/9/2011  11:47 AM
grillco wrote:
abs wrote:
grillco wrote:Again, I don't see how this deal can get done as Melo and Chauncy make a combined $33.7 million, more that half of the Knicks payroll. So even if you like the idea, you've got to realize that it would truly require a gutting of the team and its chemistry to go down. It may help to "gut the team to get Melo, but it would be mandatory to land Melo and RENT Billups for a year. And then who is the starting point next year?
billups is a vet chemistry will be fine as far as gutting team you are swapping 2 starters for 2 starters other guyz in deal have not played for the most part all year..billups has atleast 2 yrs left in tank given the scoring powering we will have...

But Donnie isn't looking to add $14.2 in salary for next season, so he's no long term solution AND he just wants to stay and finish career in hometown.

as has been talked about the goal is to get melo...he is 35 so agree he is not long term solution...if we have to add salary to get it done rather add him over harrington as denver wants to save money...think he will enjoy playing with knicks even though he wants finish career in the rocky mountains
martin
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2/9/2011  11:47 AM
just to be clear: the Billups addition to this deal is old news and not really part of what today's discussions are about. Most likely not happening.
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SupremeCommander
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2/9/2011  11:49 AM
martin wrote:just to be clear: the Billups addition to this deal is old news and not really part of what today's discussions are about. Most likely not happening.

what is the most up-to-date? I'll admit, I have no effing clue what's old and what's new

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
grillco
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2/9/2011  11:50 AM
abs wrote:
grillco wrote:
abs wrote:
grillco wrote:Again, I don't see how this deal can get done as Melo and Chauncy make a combined $33.7 million, more that half of the Knicks payroll. So even if you like the idea, you've got to realize that it would truly require a gutting of the team and its chemistry to go down. It may help to "gut the team to get Melo, but it would be mandatory to land Melo and RENT Billups for a year. And then who is the starting point next year?
billups is a vet chemistry will be fine as far as gutting team you are swapping 2 starters for 2 starters other guyz in deal have not played for the most part all year..billups has atleast 2 yrs left in tank given the scoring powering we will have...

But Donnie isn't looking to add $14.2 in salary for next season, so he's no long term solution AND he just wants to stay and finish career in hometown.

as has been talked about the goal is to get melo...he is 35 so agree he is not long term solution...if we have to add salary to get it done rather add him over harrington as denver wants to save money...think he will enjoy playing with knicks even though he would finish career in the rocky mountains

I know the goal, EVERYONE knows the goal, but making a switch of Felton for Billups, finagling the deal to get the players and picks that Denver actually wants (if their even giving the Knicks a straight answer on that front, as they haven't to date), wasting time and money on buyouts...it's just so ridiculously superfluous.

grillco
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2/9/2011  11:53 AM
martin wrote:just to be clear: the Billups addition to this deal is old news and not really part of what today's discussions are about. Most likely not happening.

Actually it's NEWS to some of us and is in fact the topic of this very discussion thread, so I believe that you are mistaken.

abs
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2/9/2011  11:53 AM
grillco wrote:
abs wrote:
grillco wrote:
abs wrote:
grillco wrote:Again, I don't see how this deal can get done as Melo and Chauncy make a combined $33.7 million, more that half of the Knicks payroll. So even if you like the idea, you've got to realize that it would truly require a gutting of the team and its chemistry to go down. It may help to "gut the team to get Melo, but it would be mandatory to land Melo and RENT Billups for a year. And then who is the starting point next year?
billups is a vet chemistry will be fine as far as gutting team you are swapping 2 starters for 2 starters other guyz in deal have not played for the most part all year..billups has atleast 2 yrs left in tank given the scoring powering we will have...

But Donnie isn't looking to add $14.2 in salary for next season, so he's no long term solution AND he just wants to stay and finish career in hometown.

as has been talked about the goal is to get melo...he is 35 so agree he is not long term solution...if we have to add salary to get it done rather add him over harrington as denver wants to save money...think he will enjoy playing with knicks even though he would finish career in the rocky mountains

I know the goal, EVERYONE knows the goal, but making a switch of Felton for Billups, finagling the deal to get the players and picks that Denver actually wants (if their even giving the Knicks a straight answer on that front, as they haven't to date), wasting time and money on buyouts...it's just so ridiculously superfluous.

ok lets punt and put the defense back on the field
So the Daily Spew is saying that Felton might be part of a potential deal...

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