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Juwaun Howard for Kurt Thomas?
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fishmike
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1/31/2004  10:04 AM
"LMAO, im starting to wonder if these knick fans judge players by their boxscores or they they actually watch them play..."

which is EXACTLY why SO MANY Knick fans grossly overvalue this guy. His numbers mean nothing to this team. His slow feet, constant foul trouble and one dimensional game means plenty. Trust me, JHoward at that contract is a bargain. While he certainly didnt deserve his MAX contract he was offered it for a reason.

Doesnt anyone around here understand chemistry, and having a roster with players that have skill that compliment each other?

Right now we have a great PG, and only one forward that can run with him in KVH, yet godforbid we start KVH at PF and use a faster 3 like Anderson because KVH isnt the defender Kurt is, even though we would score more easy points and more players would thrive.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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gunsnewing
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1/31/2004  10:18 AM
I agree 100% Mike, but I'm afraid we have no shot at Juwan. Other than Rasheed and the other big names he's the guy who can help us the most. Just imagine on nights when our jumpshot isn't falling so Stephon takes over by pentrating and dishing/scoring and passing to howard or howard takes over in the post. We'd be a real contender.
djsunyc
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1/31/2004  10:34 AM
Posted by fishmike:

"LMAO, im starting to wonder if these knick fans judge players by their boxscores or they they actually watch them play..."

which is EXACTLY why SO MANY Knick fans grossly overvalue this guy. His numbers mean nothing to this team. His slow feet, constant foul trouble and one dimensional game means plenty. Trust me, JHoward at that contract is a bargain. While he certainly didnt deserve his MAX contract he was offered it for a reason.

Doesnt anyone around here understand chemistry, and having a roster with players that have skill that compliment each other?

Right now we have a great PG, and only one forward that can run with him in KVH, yet godforbid we start KVH at PF and use a faster 3 like Anderson because KVH isnt the defender Kurt is, even though we would score more easy points and more players would thrive.

that's what i've been saying all along. we should move kurt and if we have to OVERPAY for better chemistry then we should do it. kurt and deke for stro and filler or even kurt and frank for stro. hell, i'd even trade kurt for rodney white right now. with kvh at the 4, he's the one that's going to be setting those picks for marbury up top, so he's going to be getting all of kurt's 10-15 feet jumpers which mean he'll be hitting them more than kurt does. defensively it may hurt us a little bit, but not as bad as people think.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 01/31/2004 10:35:05]
gunsnewing
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1/31/2004  10:36 AM
plus i think the Knick anouncers are a big reason people overrate KT. I don't get it when clyde and breen says thomas has been the most consistent knick. How is that possible when he's on the bench most of the time other than the occassional break out game which even the worst players have.
s3231
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1/31/2004  10:37 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:

I have said this so manby times and people dissed me.
I said it on Real GM and here (i think). Juwann abused KT when we played them.

the bottom line is this...
He has what we are missing in our offense, which is a low-post scorer.

He can do it, and KT is a 6'9" 2 guard. Alll he does is shoot 16 footers.

Adding Juwann howard makes us so solid.
I want this to happen, and I am glad I am not the only one who sees this.

Rasheed wallace is another 6'10" 2 guard avging about 3 3's a game. I don't want him. Did I mention he has an underdervoleped brain!!!!???
That underdevloped brain has enough talent to score 30 points and grab 20 rebounds in a game if he wanted too. I think Howard is a small upgrade over KT in the lineup, yes Howard brings more offensive skills but I don't think we should go after him until we see if we can get someone else for Thomas. I rather have Rasheed then Howard unless we have to overpay for Rasheed. Rasheed is better offensively and IMO he is also a better defender.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
gunsnewing
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1/31/2004  10:51 AM
yes absolutely, but I'm not sure we even have what it takes to get Howard who's contract is expiring. I think Howard would fit in perfectly. People always want to go after the best available player but sometimes all it takes is getting a player who fits right in.
c-Deke
pf-howard
sf-KVH
sg-Houston
pg-Stephon

What a freakin awesome starting five that would be!!!!!!!

Then we can pick up a servicable athletic big man or sign someone like Leon Smith to a 10 day contract.
s3231
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1/31/2004  10:55 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:

yes absolutely, but I'm not sure we even have what it takes to get Howard who's contract is expiring. I think Howard would fit in perfectly. People always want to go after the best available player but sometimes all it takes is getting a player who fits right in.
c-Deke
pf-howard
sf-KVH
sg-Houston
pg-Stephon

What a freakin awesome starting five that would be!!!!!!!

Then we can pick up a servicable athletic big man or sign someone like Leon Smith to a 10 day contract.
That lineup is an improvement but I really do think we have a good shot at a guy like Rahim and Wallace. Supposedly, we almost did get Rahim until Portland demanded that they should also get KT. Thomas is our best tradeable asset left, thats why I think we have to use it wisely.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
simrud
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1/31/2004  11:38 AM
Howard has a huge deal (not liek we care lol) but he has ONE post move, a jumphook in the paint, we arleady have OH for that lol. He's got a nice jumper, but less consistent then Thomas's, but he can shoot it over people. But overall he is just a roleplayer, kinda like Van Horn, but worse, a 3rd scoring option. The thing with him is if you want to settle for a a couple of lowpost scores a game and below average D and bounding he is your man. I don't want that. But that's just me.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
gunsnewing
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1/31/2004  11:42 AM
he's caable of putting up 18 and 10. Thats pretty damn good numbers. Numbers that KT only dreams of.
OldFan
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1/31/2004  2:11 PM
Why would you say howard is capable of 18 and 10. He's never averaged more then 8.4 rebounds a game and he hasn't averaged as many as 8 since the 98-99 season.

He is better offensively then KT. But his defense and rebounding are definitely worse. He is not fast - so the argument about being able to run with Marbury I think is NOT accurate.

All his stats are on bad teams - he has never played on a good team anywhere. Can a good player always be on bad teams - Yes. But it does make be question the value of his stats and his benefit in increasing "Chemistry" as he hasn't helped any other teams chemistry and he's been in the league for Ten years on 4 different teams.

I think KT is better then Howard. And I'm SURE that if Howard is an upgrade - it ain't much of one.
MaseInYourFace
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1/31/2004  2:47 PM
Posted by simrud:

Howard has a huge deal (not liek we care lol) but he has ONE post move, a jumphook in the paint, we arleady have OH for that lol. He's got a nice jumper, but less consistent then Thomas's, but he can shoot it over people. But overall he is just a roleplayer, kinda like Van Horn, but worse, a 3rd scoring option. The thing with him is if you want to settle for a a couple of lowpost scores a game and below average D and bounding he is your man. I don't want that. But that's just me.

thats pretty funny,that you look down on him because he's a 3rd scoring option. firstly, kthomas is a 5th scoring option; secondly, howard is often better than just a 3rd option
Yes! - Marv Albert
posterchild
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1/31/2004  3:01 PM
Howard has lost every where and now he made an up and coming Magic team look like a joke.
Howard is a joke. nuff said!
Frank Williams is the best knicks player this year. mad Respect
MaseInYourFace
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1/31/2004  10:44 PM
Posted by posterchild:

Howard has lost every where and now he made an up and coming Magic team look like a joke.
Howard is a joke. nuff said!


yea, imagine how bad the magic would be after replacing him with kurt thomas. this is because KT IS NOT A SCORING OPTION-cant you figure that out?his toughness means nothing unless you want him to help you out in a bar fight
Yes! - Marv Albert
OldFan
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2/1/2004  12:25 AM
Posted by MaseInYourFace:
Posted by posterchild:

Howard has lost every where and now he made an up and coming Magic team look like a joke.
Howard is a joke. nuff said!


yea, imagine how bad the magic would be after replacing him with kurt thomas. this is because KT IS NOT A SCORING OPTION-cant you figure that out?his toughness means nothing unless you want him to help you out in a bar fight

His toughness means rebounds - rebounds mean less opportunities for the other team to score. His toughness means defensive stops. KT is not a star but to argue that he does not contribute is just inaccurate. Defense and rebounding do matter.
simrud
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2/1/2004  1:00 AM
Do you even watch the games? Howard is NOT a player that can "take over in the post". If he could Orlando would be playing for 1st place not 1st lottery selection this year. He has as much post game as Van Horn, w/ even worse D (yes that's possible lol), less size, and much smaller range. He has proven one thing over his carrier, he only plays well in contract years period. And he has been foolishly signed till the end of days by Orlando. If he was on a 1 year deal I would mabye think about it, but as it is now, no way in hell.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
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Juwaun Howard for Kurt Thomas?
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