AnubisADL wrote:Walsh's problem is he is old and hasnt been healthy. Plus he basically got a free pass for 2 years so we could have Lebron and company and we ended up with Amare.

Now if we finish the season strong or make noise in the playoffs he might get an extension. More likely he gets his option picked up and that is it though.

We haven't just "ended up with Amare" -- who by the way is the first All-Star starter in 20 years, so don't poo-poo that.
We also have a massive upgrade in PG.
We have a rookie STARTING for the team that is arguably top 3-5 in his class.
We have a versatile young wing (not talking Chandler cuz we had him already) that may very well blossom into a 5 player at his position.
And we have a bunch of other assets to keep improving the roster.
We have a team that plays like a team, instead of a bunch of guys trying to go for theirs, and making all the wrong headlines in the papers.
All this and at half the salary cost that Isaiah was paying.
What's the problem?

AnubisADL wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

Moonangie wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Walsh's problem is he is old and hasnt been healthy. Plus he basically got a free pass for 2 years so we could have Lebron and company and we ended up with Amare.

Now if we finish the season strong or make noise in the playoffs he might get an extension. More likely he gets his option picked up and that is it though.

Why do you insist that the two years was only about Lebron? Donnie never said that in any way. Sure, we wanted to take a run at Lebron, but it was never a lock. Donnie said he wanted to build a contender, and he's doing exactly that. LeDouche can suck an egg in South Beach. Donnie Walnuts is the man, regardless of the attitudes of overly cynical NYK fans.

However, he is old, and part of the rebirth of our team should be bringing youth and vigor to the front office. I don't know much about Warentien, but that's probably a move in the Bye Bye Donnie saga. Dolan will pick up his option, then MAYBE extend him one year to see everything through. He deserves as much for rescuing the Knicks from embarrasing themselves with Isaiah.

Walsh didnt need to say anything. Giving away players like Crawford and Randolph for scrubs kind of implies you arent trying to win.

You can sip the koolaid all you like but fact is we are 6th in the East and our star player wears Allan Houston style sized ice pads on his surgically repaired knees most games.

No, it doesn't. There is a business concept of synergy. Synergy basically means the sum of the parts is greater than the whole. Similarly, there is a concept of negative synergy. That the parts are worth more if they are split up.

That's why big companies spin units off to be their own company. These businesses don't see a scent from that transaction, but management has deemed that keeping them poses an operational cost. Just by simply letting them go value is realized.

Similarly, acquiring Steve Francis to play in the same backcourt as Stephon Marbury doesn't necessarily imply that you are trying to win or that you will win.

Now, I'm not saying walsh's strategic business outcome here was to net more wins by giving those players up. What I'm saying is your assumptions are flat out wrong.

Walsh made the trades to clear cap space.

This is the problem I have here. Why try to re-write history since we didnt get Lebron this summer.

"I think that opening up cap space down the road for us is a big plus on our side and I hope our fans understand that that can give us an opportunity to make the team better according to the plan that I've outlined," Walsh said on a conference call. "So I'm trying to be true to what I said from day one, and that's what I'm doing."

............................

Yet it's clear that future financial flexibility, more than Harrington's potential on-court impact, is foremost in Walsh's thoughts, given how quickly he has parted with two of the most effective contributors in New York's surprising 6-5 start.

"I think this is an unfortunate time to make this kind of trade because you're introducing three new players into the system and in addition to that you're taking out the two guys who are our most successful players in the beginning of the season in Zach and in Jamal," Walsh said. "So this will be a difficult time for our coach, but I think we we're all on the same page as far as trying to get this done."

Source: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3717209

Coincidentally he trades our 2 most productive players, according to him, who just happened to have 2011 for scrubs. Yet he decided to keep Eddy Curry.

Walsh traded the 2011 salary he could move easiest ASAP for cap space. This wasn't addition by subtraction when you are getting back Harrington in a trade.

Right, and to determine that was what happened you have to consult what was said. You wrote, "Walsh didnt need to say anything. Giving away players like Crawford and Randolph for scrubs kind of implies you arent trying to win" and then I gave a response to your assumptions, not your output.

Remember math class, when even if you got the right answer, the teacher would heavily penalize you if you didn't show your work or it was incorrect?

***

As for sacrificing players for cap space, I was all for it. It was the single greatest free agency period in the history of the NBA. A 1 percent chance of acquiring arguably the most talented player in the history of the game and the sidekick of his choosing, in my opinion, is signifcantly greater value than a couple season's of Crawford and Randolph's production.

fishmike wrote:

Panos wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:Walsh's problem is he is old and hasnt been healthy. Plus he basically got a free pass for 2 years so we could have Lebron and company and we ended up with Amare.

Now if we finish the season strong or make noise in the playoffs he might get an extension. More likely he gets his option picked up and that is it though.

We haven't just "ended up with Amare" -- who by the way is the first All-Star starter in 20 years, so don't poo-poo that.
We also have a massive upgrade in PG.
We have a rookie STARTING for the team that is arguably top 3-5 in his class.
We have a versatile young wing (not talking Chandler cuz we had him already) that may very well blossom into a 5 player at his position.
And we have a bunch of other assets to keep improving the roster.
We have a team that plays like a team, instead of a bunch of guys trying to go for theirs, and making all the wrong headlines in the papers.
All this and at half the salary cost that Isaiah was paying.
What's the problem?

yea... kool aid indeed. Anubis is the guy who wanted the Knicks to trade for Gilbert Arenas. 6th is a GOOD thing because we are a rebuild team and extremely young. You look at the rotation... Amare, Felton, Douglas, Fields, Gallo, Mos, Turiaf, Williams, Walker, Chandler and AR.. of those 11 guys Amare, Felton and Turiaf are the only ones out of their rookie (or min in William's case) contracts. Only the Bulls have a team anywhere as young as the Knicks. Walsh has not only rebuild the team, has us a winning record and playoff bound, but also one of the younger teams in the league. Tons of space to improve from within and that trend continues.

Did we swing and miss on Lebron? Absolutely, but we had a shot.. a real shot, and that cap space yielded Mosgov, Amare, Felton, AR, Turiaf and Azu and quite frankly I would rather have that group than Crawford, Zach and a first round exit the last couple of years.

forget who we got... in a similar sitituation, I'd advocate a similar decision. I don't even think we swung-and-missed. We got our best hitter up in the 9th and drew a walk on a 3-2 pitch. The rally is still going

TMS wrote:

Childs2Dudley wrote:Anubis is also a former Isiah Thomas supporter so it tells you where his basketball mind is.

so were a lot of other posters around here, most people were willing to give him the benefit of the doubt & a lot of people supported some of his draft selections, including me & i'm also guessing you supported some of his decisions too... the only poster i recall disagreeing with every single decision Isiah ever made was islesfan.

I came close to Islesfan, but not completely. I disagreed about Wilson Chandler at the time, but like that pick now. I like and liked Nate, Lee and Ariza. Marbury was good at first but that blew up and I pretty quickly realized things wouldn't go too far with him.

Overall, it's hard to support the guy in anyway. If he were brought back, I'd simply stop being a Knick fan.

2.) In about 2000 Bip after Patrick left, Bip and many others said that we need to clear cap space and rebuild so that we have a chance to compete for free-agents, make trades becasue our players have reasonable contracts. It was obvious. It became more obvious as Layden and Isiah dragged us into the swamp. Regardless of whether Lebron or anyone was available, clearing cap space was a necessity. Any good GM would have done the same thing. Donnie is a good GM so that is what he did. He cleared cap space specifically for 2010 because that was when Amare and Lebron and Wade and Bosh and all the rest were available. Why would you clear cap space for another year where lesser players were available? Was it even possible to clear for 2008 or 2009 responsibly? Why is this even a criticism?

As for his GMing.....Bip preached every day that the time would come wehre we would be forced to clear cap space and rebuild. I railed about it every year since the day Ewing was traded. Isiah did not listen. He suffered the consequences. At least until he returns.

Allanfan20 wrote:It's scary to think that the possibility of Dolan not picking up Walsh's option and bringing Isiah back actually looms.

that'll never happen but to even think that would be possibility makes me want to riot...

Bippity10 wrote:I was okay with Isiah's drafts and never complained about those. The only one I bitched about was when we drafted Balkman. We needed a PG of the future and I could not understand why Rondo and Williams were available and we did not draft both of them. One of the them was bound to succeed. What did we need Balkman for? I felt like that pick was really Isiah trying to outsmart everyone.

As for his GMing.....Bip preached every day that the time would come wehre we would be forced to clear cap space and rebuild. I railed about it every year since the day Ewing was traded. Isiah did not listen. He suffered the consequences. At least until he returns.

Rondo without Garnett, Pierce, and Allen would not have been good here. Those big 3 draw most of the attention on the offensive end and that allows Rondo to do his thing.