martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:why do you guys want AR in the rotation? The thought of having some young energetic 7 footer that comes in and does nothing but blocks shots and cleans the glass is great. Only problem is AR isnt that guy. He's the guy who commits dumb fouls, takes terrible shots and is constantly in the wrong place.

I (still) love AR's potential and have my hopes but there is nothing to suggest MDA is holding this guy back. Seems like he's holding himself back.

At this point I'm looking for a good deal for Chandler, especially if we are maxing out Melo. DeAndre Jordan has been mentioned and seems like a very good fit. When Kaman comes back Clips dont have a good SF. They play Gomes there. A Chandler/Jordan swap helps both teams IMO

I guess for me there is an underlying assumption that he's gotten better or understands better his role on the team. IF that's the cause, I'd love to see him get more minutes. Same with Moz. But only if they are ready.

If one of those guys were to be reinserted into the rotation and play solid minutes this team could really turn the corner from up and down .500 to one of the upper tier teams and a higher seed even

martin wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:If this losing streak continues, then this is the perfect time to insert AR in the rotation. I saw some quotes from the Knicks that AR has been working hard in practice and the only reason he is not playing right now is because Williams and Walker is just a little better.

this is what I hope happens. 3-8 and MDA changes things up. 0-6 and I hope he does it again.

I see something wrong with what NYKBocker said. Williams and Walker have no business being just a little bit better than Randolph. With his talent, length and athleticism, he needs to be superior than both of them combined and there's no reason this shouldn't be the case. To me, it shows where his head is, and he has no business being in the rotation right now.

I'm with fismike 100% on this.

fishmike wrote:

BlueSeats wrote:Looking at win/loss splits, our rebounding numbers really aren't that off between wins and losses. We're ahead a total of 36 rebs in wins, which is explained by having one more win than loss.

However, look at the disparity in assists and points. 106 more assists for that same one extra win, and 378 more points. Even steals and blocks are off proportionally more than rebs.

SPLIT 	G 	W-L  	FGM-A 	3PM-A 	FTM-A 	OFF 	DEF 	TOT 	AST 	STL 	BLK 	PTS  
Wins 	22 	0-0  897-1,807 228-534 457-557 	214 	689 	903 	511 	180 	148 	2,479  
Losses 	21 	0-0  765-1,803 166-520 405-529 	224 	643 	867 	405 	154 	139 	2,101 

(Truth be told though, I haven't seen much of the last 6 games so I'm solely looking at these stats.)

dont look at the totals... look at the diffs. Knicks are 28th in the NBA at rebounding differential. The pace of the game too often dictates the totals. Knicks are getting beat on the boards most every night. We are .4 on the season
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/_/stat/rebounds-per-game/sort/avgReboundsDifference

It's not really the totals I'm looking at but the difference in wins and losses. This is the same squad that went 13-1. Was our rebounding differential so phenomenal in that stretch? I suspect not.

BlueSeats wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BlueSeats wrote:Looking at win/loss splits, our rebounding numbers really aren't that off between wins and losses. We're ahead a total of 36 rebs in wins, which is explained by having one more win than loss.

However, look at the disparity in assists and points. 106 more assists for that same one extra win, and 378 more points. Even steals and blocks are off proportionally more than rebs.

SPLIT 	G 	W-L  	FGM-A 	3PM-A 	FTM-A 	OFF 	DEF 	TOT 	AST 	STL 	BLK 	PTS  
Wins 	22 	0-0  897-1,807 228-534 457-557 	214 	689 	903 	511 	180 	148 	2,479  
Losses 	21 	0-0  765-1,803 166-520 405-529 	224 	643 	867 	405 	154 	139 	2,101 

(Truth be told though, I haven't seen much of the last 6 games so I'm solely looking at these stats.)

dont look at the totals... look at the diffs. Knicks are 28th in the NBA at rebounding differential. The pace of the game too often dictates the totals. Knicks are getting beat on the boards most every night. We are .4 on the season
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/_/stat/rebounds-per-game/sort/avgReboundsDifference

It's not really the totals I'm looking at but the difference in wins and losses. This is the same squad that went 13-1. Was our rebounding differential so phenomenal in that stretch? I suspect not.

Amar'e, Felton, and Chandler were all being mentioned as All-Stars in the national media during that stretch, and guys like Shawne Williams couldn't miss. The other team getting more second chances than the Knicks didn't matter when no one missed.

SupremeCommander wrote:

BlueSeats wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BlueSeats wrote:Looking at win/loss splits, our rebounding numbers really aren't that off between wins and losses. We're ahead a total of 36 rebs in wins, which is explained by having one more win than loss.

However, look at the disparity in assists and points. 106 more assists for that same one extra win, and 378 more points. Even steals and blocks are off proportionally more than rebs.

SPLIT 	G 	W-L  	FGM-A 	3PM-A 	FTM-A 	OFF 	DEF 	TOT 	AST 	STL 	BLK 	PTS  
Wins 	22 	0-0  897-1,807 228-534 457-557 	214 	689 	903 	511 	180 	148 	2,479  
Losses 	21 	0-0  765-1,803 166-520 405-529 	224 	643 	867 	405 	154 	139 	2,101 

(Truth be told though, I haven't seen much of the last 6 games so I'm solely looking at these stats.)

dont look at the totals... look at the diffs. Knicks are 28th in the NBA at rebounding differential. The pace of the game too often dictates the totals. Knicks are getting beat on the boards most every night. We are .4 on the season
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/_/stat/rebounds-per-game/sort/avgReboundsDifference

It's not really the totals I'm looking at but the difference in wins and losses. This is the same squad that went 13-1. Was our rebounding differential so phenomenal in that stretch? I suspect not.

Amar'e, Felton, and Chandler were all being mentioned as All-Stars in the national media during that stretch, and guys like Shawne Williams couldn't miss. The other team getting more second chances than the Knicks didn't matter when no one missed.

Back to the stats - the boarding in both wins and losses is about equal, at about 41 per game.

The BIGGEST difference, though, is in shooting percentage. Wins are .496% and losses .424%- and the 3pt line is similar - .427% in wins, .319% in losses.

Basically, if this team shoots lights out, they win. Not sure that is a surprise in this system.

And, I'm not sure that this isn't true of every team in the league.

SupremeCommander wrote:

BlueSeats wrote:

fishmike wrote:

BlueSeats wrote:Looking at win/loss splits, our rebounding numbers really aren't that off between wins and losses. We're ahead a total of 36 rebs in wins, which is explained by having one more win than loss.

However, look at the disparity in assists and points. 106 more assists for that same one extra win, and 378 more points. Even steals and blocks are off proportionally more than rebs.

SPLIT 	G 	W-L  	FGM-A 	3PM-A 	FTM-A 	OFF 	DEF 	TOT 	AST 	STL 	BLK 	PTS  
Wins 	22 	0-0  897-1,807 228-534 457-557 	214 	689 	903 	511 	180 	148 	2,479  
Losses 	21 	0-0  765-1,803 166-520 405-529 	224 	643 	867 	405 	154 	139 	2,101 

(Truth be told though, I haven't seen much of the last 6 games so I'm solely looking at these stats.)

dont look at the totals... look at the diffs. Knicks are 28th in the NBA at rebounding differential. The pace of the game too often dictates the totals. Knicks are getting beat on the boards most every night. We are .4 on the season
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/_/stat/rebounds-per-game/sort/avgReboundsDifference

It's not really the totals I'm looking at but the difference in wins and losses. This is the same squad that went 13-1. Was our rebounding differential so phenomenal in that stretch? I suspect not.

Amar'e, Felton, and Chandler were all being mentioned as All-Stars in the national media during that stretch, and guys like Shawne Williams couldn't miss. The other team getting more second chances than the Knicks didn't matter when no one missed.

That's probably a fair observation, but to me it sounds like we're putting the cart before the horse. It's as if the steering on a car is shot and is ending up in spin-outs around turns, and then assuming the biggest problem is the that the brakes aren't stopping you quick enough. Or something like that.

I agree rebounding is important and no team can go far getting outrebounded on a nightly basis, but shouldn't we be tring to get back to what was working so well up unti a few weeks ago?

Opposing player penetrates...2-3 Knicks go up to try to block his shot...that leaves their man open to fly to the glass for putbacks/offensive rebounds. I've been noticing this increasingly as the season progresses.

Without an improvement in either TD/Felton etc. denying penetration (which is tough to do with today's handchecking rules and super quick PGs) we need to either improve our defensive rotations ("helping the helper") or just keep getting killed on the boards...