Panos wrote:

martin wrote:

Panos wrote:Amare was the ONLY legitimate big man that played today.
When he sat, it was basically a PG or TD + 4 wings. WTF? You can't win ballgames without some size.
You need to be able to body up your opposition, play some interior D and grab some rebounds.
This is fundamental basketball.
WTF is Mike so stubborn about this? Can you please give some minutes to SOMEBODY with some size when Amare is on the bench?
Shawne Williams being the biggest guy on the court is NOT a recipe for victory!

how about this, at some point early in the season MDA and his staff thought that AR and Moz were not ready to play minutes or that the minutes they played were both detrimental to the team and to the players' themselves.

What do you think their thought process was as to when they should bring them back? Would it be when the likes of a team like the LA Lakers came into town, and since they have a lot of bigs, that would be a good time?

Or would it be more like when each of the respective players has shown enough to warrant being on the court that that would be the time?

Or perhaps you can suggest a different benchmark?

It's the same with a ton of other coaches. Why isn't Tiago playing? Why isn't Evan Turner starting? It's probably because the coaches have some internal benchmark and they want the players themselves to pass it before moving them to the next level.

What would your suggestion be as to the handling of guys like AR/Moz?

My thinking is simple. You need more than ONE SINGLE big man playing in a game. Period.
We know that Turiaf is fragile and is going to miss about half the games with injury.
If you don't think AR/Moz are legitimate NBA players deserving even of 5 minutes in a game, then do something to go get one.
You can't tell me that no backup big is available anywhere out there whether by trade, or in the D Leagues.
Its bad enough that we only have 1 big on the floor at a time when STAT is in the game, he should have some help.
But that line up with TD and a bunch of wings was just putrid.
It was like watching the JV team playing Varsity. And Pheonix is not even a good team.

there's this big old Melo cloud holding any moves like that up?

What you are also suggesting is that some D-League scrub is gonna be a semi savior of the Knicks bigs prob, which is a stretch, right?

We all know that this team is still fundamentally flawed, but it's also year 1 of the build-up process. Patience.

Panos wrote:

martin wrote:

Panos wrote:Amare was the ONLY legitimate big man that played today.
When he sat, it was basically a PG or TD + 4 wings. WTF? You can't win ballgames without some size.
You need to be able to body up your opposition, play some interior D and grab some rebounds.
This is fundamental basketball.
WTF is Mike so stubborn about this? Can you please give some minutes to SOMEBODY with some size when Amare is on the bench?
Shawne Williams being the biggest guy on the court is NOT a recipe for victory!

how about this, at some point early in the season MDA and his staff thought that AR and Moz were not ready to play minutes or that the minutes they played were both detrimental to the team and to the players' themselves.

What do you think their thought process was as to when they should bring them back? Would it be when the likes of a team like the LA Lakers came into town, and since they have a lot of bigs, that would be a good time?

Or would it be more like when each of the respective players has shown enough to warrant being on the court that that would be the time?

Or perhaps you can suggest a different benchmark?

It's the same with a ton of other coaches. Why isn't Tiago playing? Why isn't Evan Turner starting? It's probably because the coaches have some internal benchmark and they want the players themselves to pass it before moving them to the next level.

What would your suggestion be as to the handling of guys like AR/Moz?

My thinking is simple. You need more than ONE SINGLE big man playing in a game. Period.
We know that Turiaf is fragile and is going to miss about half the games with injury.
If you don't think AR/Moz are legitimate NBA players deserving even of 5 minutes in a game, then do something to go get one.
You can't tell me that no backup big is available anywhere out there whether by trade, or in the D Leagues.
Its bad enough that we only have 1 big on the floor at a time when STAT is in the game, he should have some help.
But that line up with TD and a bunch of wings was just putrid.
It was like watching the JV team playing Varsity. And Pheonix is not even a good team.

If Melo could be had but we made a trade that even if small would have been a piece do you think that is prudent?

Earl Barron or other non valuable player is a nice thought but the reality is where does this ONE SINGLE big man come from?

Nobody saying your wrong btw, just don't know where this magical player appears from. This is a flawed Roster at this moment. AR is long but hardley can play the interior defesne.

As far as stubburn coaches, the great ones all are. Not saying MDA is great, but thats a commong thread. They know what they are doing and don't care if others get it or not. The obvious is not always the correct thing to do.

Panos wrote:

martin wrote:

Panos wrote:

martin wrote:

Panos wrote:Amare was the ONLY legitimate big man that played today.
When he sat, it was basically a PG or TD + 4 wings. WTF? You can't win ballgames without some size.
You need to be able to body up your opposition, play some interior D and grab some rebounds.
This is fundamental basketball.
WTF is Mike so stubborn about this? Can you please give some minutes to SOMEBODY with some size when Amare is on the bench?
Shawne Williams being the biggest guy on the court is NOT a recipe for victory!

how about this, at some point early in the season MDA and his staff thought that AR and Moz were not ready to play minutes or that the minutes they played were both detrimental to the team and to the players' themselves.

What do you think their thought process was as to when they should bring them back? Would it be when the likes of a team like the LA Lakers came into town, and since they have a lot of bigs, that would be a good time?

Or would it be more like when each of the respective players has shown enough to warrant being on the court that that would be the time?

Or perhaps you can suggest a different benchmark?

It's the same with a ton of other coaches. Why isn't Tiago playing? Why isn't Evan Turner starting? It's probably because the coaches have some internal benchmark and they want the players themselves to pass it before moving them to the next level.

What would your suggestion be as to the handling of guys like AR/Moz?

My thinking is simple. You need more than ONE SINGLE big man playing in a game. Period.
We know that Turiaf is fragile and is going to miss about half the games with injury.
If you don't think AR/Moz are legitimate NBA players deserving even of 5 minutes in a game, then do something to go get one.
You can't tell me that no backup big is available anywhere out there whether by trade, or in the D Leagues.
Its bad enough that we only have 1 big on the floor at a time when STAT is in the game, he should have some help.
But that line up with TD and a bunch of wings was just putrid.
It was like watching the JV team playing Varsity. And Pheonix is not even a good team.

there's this big old Melo cloud holding any moves like that up?

What you are also suggesting is that some D-League scrub is gonna be a semi savior of the Knicks bigs prob, which is a stretch, right?

We all know that this team is still fundamentally flawed, but it's also year 1 of the build-up process. Patience.

Why are you blowing things out of proportion? "Savior"? I'm not asking for a savior.
I'm asking for my team to not play 8-10 minutes a game without a front court.
I'm asking for a Herb Williams, or a Chris Dudley, or a Jackie Butler, to take up some space, and complement the wings.
What is so unreasonable about that?
We may differ whether or not we believe Moz is ready for that role, but I'm shocked that you're actually defending playing
with no PF and no Center for whatever time Stat is not in the game.

i am not defending or advocating at all, but I am suggestion some reasons why the Knicks are playing without some frontcourt.

not for nothing, but you don't even acknowledge that the Melo trade is probably congesting some roster moves that are possible for DW. And you have clearly ignored all of my suggestions and haven't responded to how you would handle the team.

I mean, I would love for AR/Moz or another big to get 8-10 minutes, but I am also aware of the limitations right now.

Panos wrote:So you're saying that:
1. we can't make any moves until Melo plays out. I get it, but don't necessarily agree, but fine. That leads me to...
2. I will not agree that Mosgov has played so badly that it is worse with him on the court for a few minutes than without him, and 4 wings instead. Just doesn't make sense. The guy can bang against the other team's center, and grab some rebounds. Shawne Williams is about 125lbs soaking wet. And we have him guarding seven footers?

1) I am not saying we CAN'T make any moves but perhaps DW is holding off because of it. I am not actually advocating anything but rather suggesting some possibilities of why.
2) I think you missed my point. MDA could play Moz or AR, but is that a plan of development or just throwing them out there when Turiaf goes down. Let me ask you again:

at some point early in the season MDA and his staff thought that AR and Moz were not ready to play minutes or that the minutes they played were detrimental to the team and/or to the players' themselves.

What do you think their thought process was as to when they should bring them back? Would it be when the likes of a team like the LA Lakers came into town, and since they have a lot of bigs, that would be a good time?

Or would it be more like when each of the respective players has shown enough to warrant being on the court that that would be the time?

Or perhaps you can suggest a different benchmark?

It's the same with a ton of other coaches. Why isn't Tiago playing? Why isn't Evan Turner starting? It's probably because the coaches have some internal benchmark and they want the players themselves to pass it before moving them to the next level.

What would your suggestion be as to the handling of guys like AR/Moz?

Also, why aren't you suggesting we throw Curry out there? He is a big body. Could it be that it that the staff thinks it would be detrimental to the team and not really worth it? Kinda the same train of thought.

martin wrote:Also, why aren't you suggesting we throw Curry out there? He is a big body. Could it be that it that the staff thinks it would be detrimental to the team and not really worth it? Kinda the same train of thought.

Also, I'm not saying NOT to throw Curry out there. If the fat bastard could actually get on the court and run enough to be on the right end with the ball, I'd say do it. But he's checked out of basketball a long time ago. While Moz may drop passes, at least he will be present on the court and give us some size against the opposing bigs. Let him foul. At least its not a freeway to the hoop.

Nalod wrote:what should be Mikes rotation? Im looking at the bench and agree we need more interior defense.

AR is long but dumb makes him shrink and the Moz is still Spazz. Im sure we all would prefer AR stay at a Holiday Inn Express all season and Moz get some magic hands but that is not happening.

This is Turiaf BTW and was to be expected. He can't go everyday. This was him before he got here.

Team was projected to be .500 and thats where we are give or take. This is a work in progress. We'll make playoffs. Thats a start.

While it may take a stretch of imagination the inclusion of Moz and AR next season along with a free agent big will further evolve the team.

we should change coaches now? Is that what some of you are getting at? Ok, what wizard can come in here and do better with this roster?

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

It's only a matter of time when everyone else here understands what the coaches detractors have been saying all along. Those that really know basketball know from his Phoenix days and can see it now. Why do they get rid of a coach who wins 60 games a year? Think about it. He wins 60 games a year and they still get rid of him. They finally realized that you don't win championships with his style of play. Yes the Knicks are fun to watch now just like Phoenix was. Yes the Knicks are better than they have been over the last 10 years but tell me. Do you only want a better team or a championship team? It is very easy to see why there are problems with the defense. Look at how they
play defense. It's not only the players. It's the philosophy. There is none.

same reason they sold all of the draft picks and let Joe Johnson go and why Steve Kerr left: Owner is a cheap ass.

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

It's only a matter of time when everyone else here understands what the coaches detractors have been saying all along. Those that really know basketball know from his Phoenix days and can see it now. Why do they get rid of a coach who wins 60 games a year? Think about it. He wins 60 games a year and they still get rid of him. They finally realized that you don't win championships with his style of play. Yes the Knicks are fun to watch now just like Phoenix was. Yes the Knicks are better than they have been over the last 10 years but tell me. Do you only want a better team or a championship team? It is very easy to see why there are problems with the defense. Look at how they
play defense. It's not only the players. It's the philosophy. There is none.

So you saying we should only hire a coach who has won a chip? pure starphuching.