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Yahoo Sports on melo--I agree with them
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martin
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1/17/2011  11:42 PM
TMS wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:What does melo do for our D? The reason why we have gone down the last 5 is felton has been mediocre and our D has broken down. I like our forward combos fields gallo chandler williams walker--they will help us win. PG efficiency and added D is essential for this team. Is melo going to make us score 135?

right now at almost the halfway point in the season, the Knicks are a 4 games over .500 team... we're projecting to around 45 wins this season if we stand pat & stay on this pace... you really think that can't be improved upon if we get Melo to NY? the same guy that led his team to 53 wins last season & 54 wins the year prior in a much tougher conference without any player even close to Amare's calibre to help him?

you guys are talking apples/oranges. of course Melo makes the team better. But does he make the team better at its weakest points, those same points that will deny getting too far in playoffs.

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sidsanders
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1/17/2011  11:49 PM
martin wrote:Kobe, Melo in the same category. wow this **** is getting thick

the compare points would simply be that only 1 player has carried a team far in recent memory with less then high caliber help and that was lbj (as best as i can recall). jordan showed the same thing as well, he needed help.

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martin
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1/17/2011  11:54 PM
sidsanders wrote:
martin wrote:Kobe, Melo in the same category. wow this **** is getting thick

the compare points would simply be that only 1 player has carried a team far in recent memory with less then high caliber help and that was lbj (as best as i can recall). jordan showed the same thing as well, he needed help.

well, I really don't understand what you are saying.

All I know is that Melo shouldn't be in the same sentence with Kobe, Wade, LeBron, wouldn't you agree?

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Vmart
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1/18/2011  12:01 AM
martin wrote:
sidsanders wrote:
martin wrote:Kobe, Melo in the same category. wow this **** is getting thick

the compare points would simply be that only 1 player has carried a team far in recent memory with less then high caliber help and that was lbj (as best as i can recall). jordan showed the same thing as well, he needed help.

well, I really don't understand what you are saying.

All I know is that Melo shouldn't be in the same sentence with Kobe, Wade, LeBron, wouldn't you agree?

I don't agree with you. LeBron is in a category all by himself as he has carried his team with very little help and even he opted for help with his Miami decision. But Kobe and Wade have always needed help to get the hardware. Without the help their teams simple were not great. Melo has had decent help but nothing you could compare to what Wade and Kobe have had to make a run for a title.

Melo is a damn good baller playoffs year in and year out.

martin
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1/18/2011  12:11 AM
Vmart wrote:
martin wrote:
sidsanders wrote:
martin wrote:Kobe, Melo in the same category. wow this **** is getting thick

the compare points would simply be that only 1 player has carried a team far in recent memory with less then high caliber help and that was lbj (as best as i can recall). jordan showed the same thing as well, he needed help.

well, I really don't understand what you are saying.

All I know is that Melo shouldn't be in the same sentence with Kobe, Wade, LeBron, wouldn't you agree?

I don't agree with you. LeBron is in a category all by himself as he has carried his team with very little help and even he opted for help with his Miami decision. But Kobe and Wade have always needed help to get the hardware. Without the help their teams simple were not great. Melo has had decent help but nothing you could compare to what Wade and Kobe have had to make a run for a title.

Melo is a damn good baller playoffs year in and year out.

all the way to first round exits except that 1 year? I mean, I guess he has good individual stats

Billups, AI, KMart, Camby. Are they chopped liver? I know KMart has been hurt, but those other guys have been marque names or VIP that went to finals.

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sidsanders
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1/18/2011  12:12 AM
martin wrote:
sidsanders wrote:
martin wrote:Kobe, Melo in the same category. wow this **** is getting thick

the compare points would simply be that only 1 player has carried a team far in recent memory with less then high caliber help and that was lbj (as best as i can recall). jordan showed the same thing as well, he needed help.

well, I really don't understand what you are saying.

All I know is that Melo shouldn't be in the same sentence with Kobe, Wade, LeBron, wouldn't you agree?

in terms of skillset sure. in terms of this aspect of the article: "elevates everyone and changes everything", i think only lbj applies. wade/bryant produced less then stellar results when they had less then stellar supporting casts.

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TMS
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1/18/2011  12:12 AM
martin wrote:
TMS wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:What does melo do for our D? The reason why we have gone down the last 5 is felton has been mediocre and our D has broken down. I like our forward combos fields gallo chandler williams walker--they will help us win. PG efficiency and added D is essential for this team. Is melo going to make us score 135?

right now at almost the halfway point in the season, the Knicks are a 4 games over .500 team... we're projecting to around 45 wins this season if we stand pat & stay on this pace... you really think that can't be improved upon if we get Melo to NY? the same guy that led his team to 53 wins last season & 54 wins the year prior in a much tougher conference without any player even close to Amare's calibre to help him?

you guys are talking apples/oranges. of course Melo makes the team better. But does he make the team better at its weakest points, those same points that will deny getting too far in playoffs.

martin, u telling me u actually watched Melo go up against Kobe in the WCF & thought to yourself it couldn't help us be a better team in the postseason if we had a player like him on our team? i find that hard to believe.

IMO a go to scorer / big shot maker like that is essential to have in the playoffs. right now u can easily say that's a big point of weakness on our team also... currently our only go to guy is Amare & when teams have been able to take him out of the offense we have struggled bigtime to counter... the recent games we've seen this happen when the Lakers & Kings were able to double down on Amare in the paint & he struggled to get off his shots, our offense looked pathetic... when the Knicks were playing their best basketball this season was when Amare was carrying the team down the stretch of games... he can't do that every night... having someone like Melo on the team guarantees you have another guy capable of getting you big points in big moments... after u get him in the fold, u can worry about a backup C, a backup PG, a backup towelboy or whatever other backups u think our team needs... we're talking about a superstar player here, the same type of superstar player like Amare Stoudamire has been for our franchise.

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Papabear
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1/18/2011  12:30 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
Papabear wrote:
martin wrote:
MSG3 wrote:
martin wrote:
MSG3 wrote:LeBron hasn't won ****. Carmelo carried a Syracuse team to a title. Not saying Melo is better but he's had more success in his career than LeBron. Melo belongs in the discussion with all the players mentioned above, save for Kobe who is a cut above the rest.

Carmelo is a top 10 player in this league. Put him with Amare and Felton you have a contender. Add a big man and you might have a favorite.

wow that's inflating Melo. Which dude in that hasn't been to the finals?

To say that Melo has had more success than LeBron is a big reach my man.

I know LeBron is a better player. But who has had more career success? You can make strong arguments either way. I just don't think Melo gets enough credit for the things he's done. He's a great player who if you have the opportunity to obtain you have to do everything possible. Now of course don't give up the entire roster if he can come in the summer. But I think it's BS to say he's not worth a big package as yahoo insinuated.

well, how are you defining career success? LeBron didn't go to college, so why would you try to match he and Melo on NCAA championships?

After that career success is generally described by 1) Championships and 2) How far you have dragged your team in the playoffs.

Papabear Says

If we don't get Carmelo our chances for winning a championship is null. This team we have now can't stop a 4ft midget driving to the basket. Our defense stink. We are still playing match point with every team we play.What we have now is fools gold.

What does melo do for our D? The reason why we have gone down the last 5 is felton has been mediocre and our D has broken down. I like our forward combos fields gallo chandler williams walker--they will help us win. PG efficiency and added D is essential for this team. Is melo going to make us score 135?

Papabear Says

Yes he will. At least he can rebound. Melo is a main piece to the Knicks. At least when Amare comes out of the game we will still have a scorer in the game we can depend on. Look whats happening to Felton. He is starting to wear down the same way Mike D destroyed Duhon. This team is built not to play defense. I like our chances by getting Melo will help us get some good defenders on the team because with Melo and Amare on the team we have a chance to win it all. That's if we don't burn out Felton.

Papabear
eViL
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1/18/2011  12:41 AM
melo is really being underrated. it's reminiscent of the discussion of amare as plan Z. kobe went to the lottery as the lead man with the lakers. he's not some supernatural force. not saying melo is better, but i don't think kobe, wade and lebron are light years ahead of him. if melo were on the cavs, in a weak eastern conference, he might have been to the finals already too. if he was with the heat when they had a determined shaq, he might have won a chip. the guy is not as bad as people are suggesting he is. he's been in a tough conference with better teams. it's that simple. the nuggets have not been better than the lakers, spurs, mavs and suns of the last 5-6 years in the west. people are gonna like him a lot when he signs here. i can tell you that.
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franco12
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1/18/2011  12:42 AM
When we're talking Melo vs. Lebron- has Melo folded like Lebron has the last two years, and stormed off the court like a spoiled brat without shaking hands?

And I agree with Briggs. This franchise and our lack of D is like a boat with a hole in the bottom. We need a patch or a bucket, not necessarily another oar to paddle with.

The negative rebounding number bodes ill of our chances of advancing far in the play offs.

knicks1248
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1/18/2011  12:56 AM
MSG3 wrote:LeBron hasn't won ****. Carmelo carried a Syracuse team to a title. Not saying Melo is better but he's had more success in his career than LeBron. Melo belongs in the discussion with all the players mentioned above, save for Kobe who is a cut above the rest.

Carmelo is a top 10 player in this league. Put him with Amare and Felton you have a contender. Add a big man and you might have a favorite.


Kobe couldn't do it alone as well, he couldn't even get the lakers to the playoffs once shaq left, so IMO there all equal
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Killa4luv
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1/18/2011  2:12 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
MSG3 wrote:LeBron hasn't won ****. Carmelo carried a Syracuse team to a title. Not saying Melo is better but he's had more success in his career than LeBron. Melo belongs in the discussion with all the players mentioned above, save for Kobe who is a cut above the rest.

Carmelo is a top 10 player in this league. Put him with Amare and Felton you have a contender. Add a big man and you might have a favorite.


Kobe couldn't do it alone as well, he couldn't even get the lakers to the playoffs once shaq left, so IMO there all equal

Well, I agree but it all depends on what you are talking about. R u talking talent, or ability to carry a team?
Lebron's skill set puts him in another category because his talent makes other players better. He went to the finals with a bunch of role players.

Melo is definitely in the category with Wade, I don't know how he got elevated to this untouchable status. I really think alot of people have not watched Melo play. He is a complete offensive player, he can score every way there is to score, he is quick, strong, and aggressive.

Carrying a team to an NCAA championship is a big ****ing deal.

Melo aint Lebron, but nobody is, not even Kobe who is more clutch and more focussed than Lebron is.
Melo is also a better player than Amare.

All of this is debatable but here is whats not: We have no chance of ever getting to the finals without Melo, period.

BRIGGS
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1/18/2011  2:58 AM
who is more clutch and more focussed than Lebron is.
Melo is also a better player than Amare.

All of this is debatable but here is whats not: We have no chance of ever getting to the finals without Melo, period.
[/quote]

Its funny but a team seems to get to the finals each year without melo--I have a feeling it can be done:) The best Denver has done in 7 years is 54 wins. We need a second quality interior piece AND an additional C after that--Phoneix has 4 Lopez Gortat Warrick Frye. We score points we need to refocus on interior D and put more effort into guarding on the perimeter. If there was additional help down low we would not have to panic double off our man. We have too many wing players and the answer is to add another wing. Instead of DW hyping how many picks he can get--can we get some interior help and a quality back up PG? Weve been saying this from game 1.

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knickstorrents
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1/18/2011  3:56 AM
TMS wrote:This whole debate centering around Melo's inability to take his teams far in the playoffs is reaching ridiculous levels. Amare, Durant, CP3 & Deron Williams haven't been to the Finals either. I'm pretty sure none of the fans of their teams are sitting around debating whether or not they're franchise calibre talent.

a guy who took a team from 17 wins to 43 wins the next year somehow can't help another team get better... "let's grab Fishlips off the Rockets, he's the key to our future success"... "Melo is Gilbert Arenas part 2"... the hits just keep on comin'

You keep on bringing up the whole 17 to 43 wins thing, but Camby came back from injury and Andre Miller got acquired that same year. Your conclusion is not accurate.

Rose is not the answer.
Finestrg
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1/18/2011  4:59 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/18/2011  8:24 AM
MSG3 wrote:LeBron hasn't won ****. Carmelo carried a Syracuse team to a title. Not saying Melo is better but he's had more success in his career than LeBron. Melo belongs in the discussion with all the players mentioned above, save for Kobe who is a cut above the rest.

Carmelo is a top 10 player in this league. Put him with Amare and Felton you have a contender. Add a big man and you might have a favorite.

I basically agree here..I just don't buy this 'we already score enough points' stuff, sorry.. Far be it for me to say that we couldn't use one of the best offensive players in the sport if he were to ever become available to us..It astonishes me how some people on this board are going out of there way and going to such great lengths to put this guy down..MSG3 just said it--Carmelo Anthony is a top 10 player in this game who's right smack in his prime (just to keep his age in perspective, Melo's almost 2 years younger than Stoudemire). Forget the drop in shooting percentage this year (and even then, he's only down 2.5% -- his rebounding however is way up at 8.1 rpg, how 'bout that?) -- the dude is still bringing it every night despite playing out a real tough situation. For his career this man's sitting at 24.6 ppg on 46% overall from the field. Offensively speaking, that's right there with Kobe Bryant, a guy I still consider to be the best player in the league. There's only a handful of players in this league that can score the ball like that..The man is a franchise talent that would without question make our team better -- I don't see how you could even argue it..The whole thing is not giving up too much in a trade to bring him here. If we can succeed in accomplishing that, adding him is as big a no-brainer as I've ever come across. And I agree about Felton, a move like this should make him an even better player.

We scored 121 pts yesterday but against a subpar team..And not for anything but against another bad team the previous game, the Kings, we only scored 83 pts..So where's the offensive consistency?? Bottom line: Scoring points against PHX, a team that plays zero defense, is one thing but we're not scoring 120 ppg against quality teams from here on in, regular season and in the playoffs. ESPECIALLY in the playoffs if we're lucky enough to finally get back there..We put up a lot of pts against Utah the other night but that was more anomaly than norm -- we play at a semi-fast pace to begin with so we're gonna score some points and we had two reserve wings shoot the lights out (not consistently mind you, only at different stages in the game [Walker early, Williams later on] not the whole way through and not down the stretch when we needed it most). That's not gonna be there every night as we're seeing now---conversely, Carmelo Anthony's offense WOULD BE THERE ALL THE TIME, EVERY NIGHT and against ANYONE trying to guard him. That's the difference as far as I'm concerned.

This team played poorly yesterday..Very poorly. I don't care that we scored 121 pts yesterday, big deal -- we were never in control of that game at any point. Other than Amar'e, where were the consistent points coming from, esp. down the stretch?? We were never in control of the Sacramento game either -- two bad losses on our home floor. Same deal with the Utah game..That's 3 in a row, games where the offense completely stalled at the worse possibly time..I'm not saying there weren't other contibuting factors at play -- of course we still need more size & skill, better defense and better rebounding -- I've been saying that from day 1..But consistent scoring at crucial points of the game is still very much a concern as well..With Melo, we're talking about adding a bonafide STAR player that would help us take control of games like these with his dominant scoring. I'm all for adding this guy if the price makes sense. Absolutely..

Let's break it down individually just to get a better sense: Amar'e's gonna get his every night but as we've seen, there will be some nights where he's gonna struggle to get there, esp. if he's continually asked to shoulder the entire burden in crunch time..Nobody else is a consistent offensive threat on any kind of a big-time level -- NO ONE -- not Gallinari, not Chandler, not Fields (not yet anyway -- I for one wanna see this kid shoot the ball much more), not Toney Douglas and like we've been seeing lately, not even Ray Felton, unfortuately..They're all capable offensive players on any given night, but none of them are guys that you can count on to go out there and dominate a 4th quarter on any kind of a consistent basis and lead the team to victory..They definitely could use another consistent offensive threat as part of the attack, regardless of position. To me that's also very much a need here, just as much as finding a way to add more skilled size, rebounding and defense.

Vmart
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1/18/2011  8:59 AM    LAST EDITED: 1/18/2011  9:01 AM
BRIGGS wrote:who is more clutch and more focussed than Lebron is.
Melo is also a better player than Amare.

All of this is debatable but here is whats not: We have no chance of ever getting to the finals without Melo, period.

Its funny but a team seems to get to the finals each year without melo--I have a feeling it can be done:) The best Denver has done in 7 years is 54 wins. We need a second quality interior piece AND an additional C after that--Phoneix has 4 Lopez Gortat Warrick Frye. We score points we need to refocus on interior D and put more effort into guarding on the perimeter. If there was additional help down low we would not have to panic double off our man. We have too many wing players and the answer is to add another wing. Instead of DW hyping how many picks he can get--can we get some interior help and a quality back up PG? Weve been saying this from game 1.


Of course teams are winning Championships without Melo right now. The point is was Kobe winning championships without Gasol? was Pierce, KG and Allen winning champions without each other? Hell Wade didn't win until Shaq carried his azz to a championship. The point is getting Melo makes the Knicks more of a contender. Of course the Knicks are still gonna need a Center and a back up G and learn to play better defense. Those are positions that can be filled in once the stars get aligned. You can't tell me that Amar'e, Melo and Felton isn't a solid foundation. If the Knicks manage to make the move and find a way to keep Chandler or Gallo that makes for 4 very solid starters. If MDA learns to utilize Mozgov and he also improves that makes for a pretty good team or if the Knicks manage to make more moves and get a Jordan or McGee to play center. The Knicks need an elite player for team Psyche when you go up against Boston, Miami, Lakers it goes a long way.

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1/18/2011  9:05 AM
At this point melo definitely seems like a key piece if we want to contend, but if we take on 22 per year that does leave us with very little to work with free agent wise and not a whole lot of draft picks either. Maybe he isn't a superstar player, granted there's only what? 5-10 of those in the league? But he's just barely a notch below that. Anyone thinking signing Tyson Chandler or Marc Gasol makes us one of the best teams in the league is crazy, and that would almost cap us out too.
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1/18/2011  9:27 AM
martin wrote:
MSG3 wrote:LeBron hasn't won ****. Carmelo carried a Syracuse team to a title. Not saying Melo is better but he's had more success in his career than LeBron. Melo belongs in the discussion with all the players mentioned above, save for Kobe who is a cut above the rest.

Carmelo is a top 10 player in this league. Put him with Amare and Felton you have a contender. Add a big man and you might have a favorite.

wow that's inflating Melo. Which dude in that hasn't been to the finals?

To say that Melo has had more success than LeBron is a big reach my man.


Its a joke. Has Melo been an all NBA defensive player? NO. Has Melo ever even been in an MVP conversation? NO. Melo got beat out to make the AS game by Kirilenko. Top ten player? Really. Here's ten guys. Please tell me which one of them your taking Melo over:
Dirk, Lebron, Kobe, Dwight Howard, Wade, Deron Williams, CP3, Steve Nash, Blake Griffin, Amare Stoudemire, Pau Gasol.
Yea... and that list doesnt include anyone on the two best teams in the league Bos and SA or guys like Derrick Rose, Durant, Westbrook, etc.

Melo is a 2nd tier guy. He's a 3x all star, he's not an MVP caliber player. Never has been and never will be. He's in the Bosh catagory. He's in the pre-injury Arenas category. He's shot maker and a closer and could certainly be the 2nd star in a championship mix, but he's not an alpha star and shouldnt be discussed as that type of player.

Comparing him to Lebron tells me you dont really follow the sport or understand it.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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1/18/2011  9:38 AM
sidsanders wrote:
MSG3 wrote:
MSG3 wrote:
martin wrote:
MSG3 wrote:LeBron hasn't won ****. Carmelo carried a Syracuse team to a title. Not saying Melo is better but he's had more success in his career than LeBron. Melo belongs in the discussion with all the players mentioned above, save for Kobe who is a cut above the rest.

Carmelo is a top 10 player in this league. Put him with Amare and Felton you have a contender. Add a big man and you might have a favorite.

wow that's inflating Melo. Which dude in that hasn't been to the finals?

To say that Melo has had more success than LeBron is a big reach my man.

I know LeBron is a better player. But who has had more career success? You can make strong arguments either way. I just don't think Melo gets enough credit for the things he's done. He's a great player who if you have the opportunity to obtain you have to do everything possible. Now of course don't give up the entire roster if he can come in the summer. But I think it's BS to say he's not worth a big package as yahoo insinuated.

Furthermore, how transcendent has Wade been without the current roster or the years he was with Shaq? Yes he's a top 5 talent, but his teams when he was the man weren't very good.

Melo lead his team to the playoffs every single year in a tough as hell Western Conference. God willing he comes here you guys will see what a difference it will be. We'll be better than any of the 90s teams wig a few other tweaks. He is worth everything NJ is offering.

kobe as the man wasnt "elite" either (04-05 till 06-07) until the roster got some upgrades.

really? I think Kobe was still NBA defensive team wasnt he?

Melo can not sniff Lebron or Kobe's farts in this discussion. Winning all NBA defensive team AND being an elite scorer = superstar MVP caliber player. Winning a few all star games = all star caliber. Hey Before he got hurt lets put Gilbert Arenas in this mix than also? He did everything Melo did. Won a couple playoff games, put up some gaudy scoring #s, played in a couple all star games.

You guys are on crack. You think I hate Melo? I dont... I see what he is. You guys calling him top 10 or Lebron caliber are high-larious. When Melo decides that being an elite defender is just as important as being an elite scorer you guys can get back to me. Until then Melo is what he is. An all star player who is in clearly in the 2nd tier when it comes to the NBA elite.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Vmart
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1/18/2011  9:52 AM
fishmike wrote:
martin wrote:
MSG3 wrote:LeBron hasn't won ****. Carmelo carried a Syracuse team to a title. Not saying Melo is better but he's had more success in his career than LeBron. Melo belongs in the discussion with all the players mentioned above, save for Kobe who is a cut above the rest.

Carmelo is a top 10 player in this league. Put him with Amare and Felton you have a contender. Add a big man and you might have a favorite.

wow that's inflating Melo. Which dude in that hasn't been to the finals?

To say that Melo has had more success than LeBron is a big reach my man.


Its a joke. Has Melo been an all NBA defensive player? NO. Has Melo ever even been in an MVP conversation? NO. Melo got beat out to make the AS game by Kirilenko. Top ten player? Really. Here's ten guys. Please tell me which one of them your taking Melo over:
Dirk, Lebron, Kobe, Dwight Howard, Wade, Deron Williams, CP3, Steve Nash, Blake Griffin, Amare Stoudemire, Pau Gasol.
Yea... and that list doesnt include anyone on the two best teams in the league Bos and SA or guys like Derrick Rose, Durant, Westbrook, etc.

Melo is a 2nd tier guy. He's a 3x all star, he's not an MVP caliber player. Never has been and never will be. He's in the Bosh catagory. He's in the pre-injury Arenas category. He's shot maker and a closer and could certainly be the 2nd star in a championship mix, but he's not an alpha star and shouldnt be discussed as that type of player.

Comparing him to Lebron tells me you dont really follow the sport or understand it.

Fish, are Gallo and Chandler or anyone on the Knicks in the category of players you mention? Isn't Melo closer to the players you listed than what we have today? I don't buy into this All Star game, all defensive team non sense. As long as MDA is here we won't be talking about that anyways especially all defensive anything. The Knicks are more of a contender with Melo than what we have. I have a feeling that Walsh will get a deal done that will leave the Knicks with a fair amount of young talent. I'm not gonna speculate on any trade because we have no clue how it is going to go down. This team needs Melo, I like Chandler, Gallo Fields but my franchise player needs help ASAP. These guys are still 2-3 years away from playing at the most consistent level. Amare has changed the perception of the team into a now team. As any GM will think just as the Magic with their drastic change to get a better team around Howard the Knicks must do the same you have 4-5 years of Amare time you got to make something happen.

Yahoo Sports on melo--I agree with them

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