mikesknicks wrote:You have to have STARS in this league why can't this site understand that???? We have one and look how this city is going ga ga over him, but to win you need at least two and a very good third player. Look at the top teams in the league and count the stars. Lakers, Spurs, Heat, and Celtics.
Go get Melo and STAT will be better Felton will be better. I just don't get what people see when we get beat by these contending teams?

i agree... i think the only way to win championships w/o bigname stars is if you play suffocating team defense... we don't do that... we need more star power in NY if we ever wanna become a legitimate championship contender... bringing Amare here has changed the franchise around completely... add another star like Melo & u got the makings of a potent 1-2 punch that can match up with any team in the NBA... then u fill in the rest with the supporting cast... as long as we don't completely gut our roster to get Melo here, i think it's a no brainer move to make.

mikesknicks wrote:You have to have STARS in this league why can't this site understand that???? We have one and look how this city is going ga ga over him, but to win you need at least two and a very good third player. Look at the top teams in the league and count the stars. Lakers, Spurs, Heat, and Celtics.
Go get Melo and STAT will be better Felton will be better. I just don't get what people see when we get beat by these contending teams?

The debate isn't about whether you need stars. No one said they wish we could have as few stars as possible. The debate is over whether Melo should be one of those stars.

OldFan wrote:

mikesknicks wrote:You have to have STARS in this league why can't this site understand that???? We have one and look how this city is going ga ga over him, but to win you need at least two and a very good third player. Look at the top teams in the league and count the stars. Lakers, Spurs, Heat, and Celtics.
Go get Melo and STAT will be better Felton will be better. I just don't get what people see when we get beat by these contending teams?

Lebron and Wade > Camelo and Amare. I'm sure there are a lot who will disagree but I don't think Melo is a top 10 or even a top 15 player in this league.

And with the 22 mil in Salary and players you're giving up I think you'll still end up a rung below the elite. But a lot does depend on what besides the salary cap room you have to give up. But I just don't see anyway you fill the holes if we get Melo.

I think on the offensive end Melo can hang with Lebron may even hav a slight Advantage and Amar'e can more than hang with Wade. On the defensive side, well that's a different story. And people didn't think the eat could even pay enough dead bodies to fill their roster, doesn't seem to have stopped them either.

TMS wrote:

OldFan wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

OldFan wrote:

mikesknicks wrote:You have to have STARS in this league why can't this site understand that???? We have one and look how this city is going ga ga over him, but to win you need at least two and a very good third player. Look at the top teams in the league and count the stars. Lakers, Spurs, Heat, and Celtics.
Go get Melo and STAT will be better Felton will be better. I just don't get what people see when we get beat by these contending teams?

Lebron and Wade > Camelo and Amare. I'm sure there are a lot who will disagree but I don't think Melo is a top 10 or even a top 15 player in this league.

And with the 22 mil in Salary and players you're giving up I think you'll still end up a rung below the elite. But a lot does depend on what besides the salary cap room you have to give up. But I just don't see anyway you fill the holes if we get Melo.

I think on the offensive end Melo can hang with Lebron may even hav a slight Advantage and Amar'e can more than hang with Wade. On the defensive side, well that's a different story. And people didn't think the eat could even pay enough dead bodies to fill their roster, doesn't seem to have stopped them either.

I don't think Melo can hang with Lebron on offense or defense - I don't think it's close. But the main issue is defense and rebounding with Melo every elite team is still much better at both. Miami got LeBron, Wade and Bosh at a discount. And though people want to knock Bosh he's a better post defender and rebounder then anyone on the knicks.

how do u figure the main issue is rebounding with Melo when he's the best rebounding swingman in the NBA? care to explain? & i dunno how u can say he can't hang w/Lebron offensively... please explain to us what Lebron can do on offense as a scorer that Melo can't.

Better fg%. Better 3pt fg% better effective field goal percentage and offense is not just scoring lebron is a much better passer he could play the 1 and play it and play it well. As far as rebounding Melo does a pretty good job but I don't think he's going to solve the knick rebounding problem - we need a big who can battle with the bigs on Boston and the Lakers (Plus I think you giving up Fields if you get him the only guy who is a True + rebounder for his position.)

And what I said was "Defense and Rebounding" and Melo has been in the league for 9 years and has never been considered a better then average defender.

The guys got skills. I just don't think he's the right fit considering his cost. But like I've said before it depends what you have to give up.

TMS wrote:

OldFan wrote:

TMS wrote:

OldFan wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

OldFan wrote:

mikesknicks wrote:You have to have STARS in this league why can't this site understand that???? We have one and look how this city is going ga ga over him, but to win you need at least two and a very good third player. Look at the top teams in the league and count the stars. Lakers, Spurs, Heat, and Celtics.
Go get Melo and STAT will be better Felton will be better. I just don't get what people see when we get beat by these contending teams?

Lebron and Wade > Camelo and Amare. I'm sure there are a lot who will disagree but I don't think Melo is a top 10 or even a top 15 player in this league.

And with the 22 mil in Salary and players you're giving up I think you'll still end up a rung below the elite. But a lot does depend on what besides the salary cap room you have to give up. But I just don't see anyway you fill the holes if we get Melo.

I think on the offensive end Melo can hang with Lebron may even hav a slight Advantage and Amar'e can more than hang with Wade. On the defensive side, well that's a different story. And people didn't think the eat could even pay enough dead bodies to fill their roster, doesn't seem to have stopped them either.

I don't think Melo can hang with Lebron on offense or defense - I don't think it's close. But the main issue is defense and rebounding with Melo every elite team is still much better at both. Miami got LeBron, Wade and Bosh at a discount. And though people want to knock Bosh he's a better post defender and rebounder then anyone on the knicks.

how do u figure the main issue is rebounding with Melo when he's the best rebounding swingman in the NBA? care to explain? & i dunno how u can say he can't hang w/Lebron offensively... please explain to us what Lebron can do on offense as a scorer that Melo can't.

Better fg%. Better 3pt fg% better effective field goal percentage and offense is not just scoring lebron is a much better passer he could play the 1 and play it and play it well. As far as rebounding Melo does a pretty good job but I don't think he's going to solve the knick rebounding problem - we need a big who can battle with the bigs on Boston and the Lakers (Plus I think you giving up Fields if you get him the only guy who is a True + rebounder for his position.)

And what I said was "Defense and Rebounding" and Melo has been in the league for 9 years and has never been considered a better then average defender.

The guys got skills. I just don't think he's the right fit considering his cost. But like I've said before it depends what you have to give up.

you said that every elite team is better at both defense & rebounding with Melo here & pointed out that Chris Bosh is a better rebounder than anyone on the Knicks... defensively u have an argument but in terms of rebounding:

Heat top rebounders:
Bosh 8.3 rpg
Lebron 7 rpg
Big Z 4.9

Celtics top rebounders:
KG 9.5 rpg
Perkins 7.6 rpg
Pierce 5.2 rpg

Lakers top rebounders:
Gasol 10.9 rpg
Odom 9.7 rpg
Bynum 6.5 rpg

Knicks top rebounders w/Melo:
Amare 9 rpg
Melo 8.3 rpg
Landry 7.4 rpg or Wilson 6.4 rpg

other than the Lakers, i don't see where this huge rebounding advantage would be if we had Melo in the fold for the Heat or Celtics... as for Bosh, he's averaging the same amount of rebounds as Melo is this season, & Amare is outrebounding him.

there's no denying that Melo has defensive deficiencies, but it was widely thought that Amare was a crappy defender also before he got to the Knicks... i think he's turned it up a few notches since he's been here & i don't see why Melo can't do the same... defense is a mindset & i've seen Melo D up Kobe pretty damn tough during the WCF so i know he's got it in him... i don't expect him to be a great defensive player but i do think he could turn it up a few notches just like Amare did when he got here.

La gets 52.4% of the available rebounds.
Miami gets 51.8% of the available rebounds.
Boston get .49.9% of the available rebounds - that one surprise me lower then I expected.
Ny gets 48.1% of the available rebounds.

The total rebound numbers depend on the pace of the game. The knicks play at a higher pace (as does Denver) thus there are more rebound available. Bosh gets a higher percentage of the available rebound then either Melo or Amare. Plus you're including Fields - and I doubt we get Melo without giving him up.

Yep Amare has gotten better. But have you noticed how many great games SF and C have had against the Knicks? He's still not a plus defender and neither is Chandler (against 4's and 5's). We're really thin when matching up against big team.

Camelo may get better but he's been in the league 9 years - how many guys take a huge defensive leap that late in their career.

Even if I concede rebounding (which I don't). Those teams are not just a little better defensively - they're much better. That's why I think if the knicks are going to pay max money and give up players at a minimum they need to be getting back a two way star offense and Defense and ideally a big.

Other wise I'd rather try to improve our defense and rebounding by picking up multiple players. (Though I concede I don't know who those players should be .

knickstorrents wrote:

mikesknicks wrote:You have to have STARS in this league why can't this site understand that???? We have one and look how this city is going ga ga over him, but to win you need at least two and a very good third player. Look at the top teams in the league and count the stars. Lakers, Spurs, Heat, and Celtics.
Go get Melo and STAT will be better Felton will be better. I just don't get what people see when we get beat by these contending teams?

Sorry, no way I'm paying Max money for a 'Star' that doesn't play defense. Look at the championship teams around the league with max players. How many of those players don't play defense? Maybe you can say Paul Pierce but the Celts have so much interior depth around him it's not too big of an issue.

Now if we are trying to satisfy both the star factor and defense factor, then our best option is Igoudala. Many of you may not see him as an upgrade over Chandler or Gallo, but you have to consider what he does in this offense, as well as the fact that he is a top defensive wing in the league. He is a true 2-way player who fills a ton of needs on this roster (perimeter defense, play-making wing, good rebounder for position.) I always felt like he was the best plan B, along with an upgrade at center. As it stands, there just aren't enough good upgrades at center to make this team significantly better on its own. But adding Iggy for Chandler or Gallo and Curry, then a good center next season like Varejao, Camby, Jordan, etc, and a backup PG, and we might have enough to compete. Iggy may look like he has taken a step back this season, but he came back from injury way too soon, and mark my words, he would be a perennial all-star here. He would average 20+, 6, 6 and still be the same lock down defender. Our offense probably wouldn't improve, but most would say it doesn't need to. This move would make us a much better defensive team, better in transition, and better in one on one situations.