I identify with dantoni and the suns ever since they were robbed of a title the year they said amare came off the bench when the spurs cheapshotted Nash...

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/246333/was_the_nbas_suspension_of_amare_stoudamire.html

We also suffered a similar indignity against the heat.
http://www.nytimes.com/1997/05/16/sports/5-knicks-barred-for-melee-3-to-miss-game-6.html

If anybody can do it it's dantoni, this style is very similar to the Knicks team with Sprewell and Houston and Camby running the floor.

It felt like the direction of basketball...
http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=188 

We need to stop thinking in terms of things we can add to dantonis Knicks to make them like riley's Knicks.

Embrace the dantoni attack, see why many are clamoring for melo.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHO/2007.html

Chandler is turning I to a better version than the matrix 
A healthy aggressive gallo is a monster in this offense
Amare is a better version than their amare

Killa4luv wrote:We need a traditional center.

We tried that for a decade with one of the best ever and it didn't work out. I prefer the crisp ball movement and balance between the inside/outside game - reminds me of the old 70's teams - of this team to the plodding, feed-the-ball-to-the-big-guy-and-stand-around offense of the 90's.

martin wrote:I am going to take you up on this topic and thread, part by part if I may (I don't mean that in a negative way, just want to separate out the salient points).

Let's start here:

Killa4luv wrote:Eventually i think we are going to have to get rid of him to become championship caliber, because i don't think he is going to change his offensive philosophy. He wants players that fit his system. I don't want no Boris Diaw type as my center, I want a real gotdamn center! I don't want Amare as my center,

There is an underlying assumption about 1) a coach wanting players who fit his system and 2) MDA NOT wanting a real gotdamn center.

First question is this: Was MDA provided with a real center when he was at PHO or did he just adjust to life without one? Perhaps Shaq but was he really that serviceable? CLE didn't really use Shaq as a primary weapon a year later either, so can we say that his overall effectiveness at 36 was way down? Who are these real centers that were acquired by PHO management that Mike ignored?

Second hypothetical question, if MDA was given the likes of Dwight Howard, do you really think Mike would relegate him to 20 minutes a game or would he incorporate him into everything? All Howard does is rebound, defend and not shoot from outside. Do you think that the aforementioned 20 minutes of Dwight would really be employed?

Is it such that a real center has no place within the system or MDA was never provided one?

It is also incredible to me that Turiaf and Jared Jefferies, 2 inept offense players shooting-wise are constantly overlooked as big men who play within MDA's system quite fine.

we don't know for sure if none was provided or he didn't want one. We know he never had one. I suspect he doesn't want one.

If he had Dwight Howard he'd be forced to deal with him, thats kind of a ridiculous question. Does he want D. Howard is the question? Is that his kind of player? Does Howard mesh with his philosophy? I'd say not really, but if given D. Howard he'd be murdered if he didn't use him.

I don't think his system wants Amare and a real center. I could be wrong, but thats how I feel and if that is correct I have a major problem with that. I think its a big deal.

martin wrote:

Killa4luv wrote:No defense

MDA's teams were always somewhere between 15-17 in defensive efficiency during his time there; middle of the pack, nothing special.

1) He constantly played Nash who is all-world at going under picks and non-suffocating man D.
2) He had zero defensive C's to play unless you consider 36 year old, still haven't figured out the PnR defense Shaq or Steven Hunter all-world.
3) Amare still hadn't figured out what to do until recently.

When 2 of your starting positions play below average D, do you call it playing bad D or do you call it playing as good as D as can be expected (or something like that).

When Miami won their last championship, their offensive efficiency was rated #7 in the league and their D was rated #17 in the league (or something very close those ranks).

Those stats do not tell the story, I watched those games. For instance, we are among league leaders in blocks, does that man we protect the paint better than other teams, or does it mean teams get a lot more point black chances at the basket where we sometimes get weakside help? We get killed on the glass, and the block numbers are at least in part a reflection of that.

Amare said in an interview that he was never taught to play D. If you are as quick and agile as Nash and Amare, ur defense becomes a matter of ur desire and the coaches expectations. They didn't try to play D, because it was not a focus of the coach. Amare had this to say in an interview:
http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2010/11/amare-stoudemire-i-was-never-taught-defense/

The falling out D’Antoni and Stoudemire had in Phoenix centered on D’Antoni feeling that Stoudemire lacked focus on defense. The irony of course is that D’Antoni has a reputation for not stressing defense (although he’ll gladly debate anyone who says just that.) Stoudemire doesn’t argue that his reputation as a poor defensive player was well deserved and seemed to suggest that D’Antoni was indirectly responsible. ‘It was fair,’ he said. ‘I was never taught defense. I just never was taught it in high school and also in the NBA.’ Stoudemire added that prior to his final season with the Suns ‘I took it upon myself to get better defensively’ and that Phoenix head coach Alvin Gentry was responsible for that new outlook. ‘I’ve got to give it to Alvin Gentry,’ Stoudemire added. ‘He really implemented some strategies that were helpful to me. I took what I learned last year and carried it over to this year.’”

Although to MDA's credit, our team does d up really nicely sometimes. We have done it against some of the elite teams too, and it is definitely a reflection of coaching, as much as Phoenix's poor D was. He has made some adjustments here, but the SSOL is a really really bad thing to me.

First, lets get their.

Lets not make the mistake we made in the 90's where we had to add pieces to Ewing or he would leave so we traded all our yoots.

We have a big cap space next year. We have very movable pieces.

We still have our pick this year and AR who is a draft pick in a uniform.

What we have is three young starters who still have upside and two all star players (Felton is an allstar).

We have a coach who is playing yoot and playing who is bringing it.

What is the realistic goal for a team that won 29 games last year? Other than what Miami did, how can you just adda few players and even hope it can be a contender in half a season?

MDA is top five in coach of the year this season.

The league is going in our direction. I'll reserve MDA demise opinion as being wrong coach after a few failed run in conferance finals or championship failures.

While all teams should have championship aspirations there has to be an entertainment factor to the games. Teams don't win every game and only one team wins the trophy each year. I am enjoying this team a lot and have watched most of the games. They play a fun brand of ball that does have its challenges at times but had succeeded more than failed.

They are not a top tier team but have quickly gone from the bottom third to the top third in less than half a season.

- Robert Horry's hip check. They had a pretty damn good shot at beating that Spurs team till Amare, Diaw, etc got suspended

- Robert Sarver is too damn cheap. He could have had a championship caliber team but ended up letting Joe Johnson and the pick that became Rajon Rondo go for $ reasons and then inexplicably OKed long term deals for lesser players. Kinda exactly like what happened with Amare.

Someone already said this but if you're going to critize MDA's system, you have to do better than "Oh his old teams didn't win the championship"

Only one frikkin team wins it all every season. If your team doesn't win it's not logical to automatically conclude that it's the coach and his system.

If you have issues with MDA's system, that's fine but lay out a logical argument that can hold water.