Most similar to: Scot Pollard (96.5), Brad Miller, Horace Grant, Tyrone Hill
Nenê represents the limitations of the term “athletic.” The Brazilian center looks like a lumbering block-toblock
player, yet he’s got tremendous quickness for his size. At the same time, Nenê is not a leaper at all. This
contradiction is revealed by the fact that Nenê’s steal rate was nearly as good as his block rate last season. So
is he athletic or not? The multiple components of what we consider athleticism make a single word insufficient
to capture them all.
As for Nenê himself, he enjoyed another solid season as a starting center, playing all 82 games for the first
time in his career. Given that he topped out at 64 games over the span from 2004-05 through 2007-08 (when he
dealt with a ruptured ACL in the season opener and testicular cancer, among other ailments), this fact deserves
to be celebrated. The full campaign helped Nenê finish sixth among centers in WARP. He might just sneak into
an All-Star Game at some point, especially if Denver plays well in the first half of this season; lesser players
have certainly been rewarded with an All-Star trip.
The strength of Nenê’s game is his play in the post. He can overpower smaller defenders and possesses nice
touch around the basket. Defensively, Nenê is only average because he struggles in the most important areas for
a center--contesting shots in the paint and controlling the defensive glass.

Slow footed centers, of which there are many in the NBA, simply can't play in Mike's system. They can't keep up with the ball. The Spurs defense didn't work the way it normally does against the Knicks, because they frequently lacked enough time to get their defense set. On top of that, Nene is shooting 62% from the field and he is capable of both scoring from the outside and also on pick and rolls. If you look at his stats, you see continual improvement year after year, as he plays smarter, and healthier, and his shooting touch continues to improve. Nene is a player whose career stats are not an accurate picture of his current game. He had injuries earlier in his career, in the last two years it appears he has finally hit his stride. I also think it has been posted on this forum that Amare and Nene are good friends. This doesn't hurt either imo.

Olbrannon wrote:

martin wrote:Oh, here are 2 more things that adding Nene to Knicks' line does for them:

1) it pushes (perhaps) Chandler to the SF spot. Nene can get you 8 boards, Amare 9 boards, Chandler 6.5 boards. None of those guys are exceptional rebounders but as a group it is very nice. You add in Fields at 7 and Felson at 3.5 and I almost guarantee that you have - collectively - a very high rebounding starting 5. Perhaps still not stellar, but good enough?

2) It pushes Turiaf to the bench where he would flourish and thrive. Energy. And it keeps him out of harms way for injury (can do his 15-20 minutes a game thing).

I really like TD and Turiaf coming off the bench together. And we really need a durable big man. For me the best case would be Ibaka...but that's not hapeening. Marc Gasol or Anderson Varejeo would be my next choice.

I really like the Mayor at SF too.

30 minute a night centers that can run, rebound and finish are hard to come by and make big money though.

question for you Martin...if it comes down to Melo or a suitable 5 ...what would you do?

As a general thought, I like defense and depth over a talented volume scorer (and little roster maneuverability). I'll add that I haven't watched Melo as a pro enough to have him pegged - it's not clear to me how poor his defense is or if he can indeed defend (I do know that Karl has asked him to do it and I have seen no real response on Melo's part), also don't have a clear idea on how much Denver has NEEDED his offense versus Melo just takes too many shots.

It's clear to me though that there is no need to give up more than either just Gallo or just Chandler in any trade for Melo; I just like the options that are out there and am willing to wait for him at FA time, especially if DEN wants 2 of those guys and/or Fields + AR (that's just a dumbass trade). (BTW, no way I give up Fields in any trade for Melo. He's just too glue'y and would fit perfect with Amare/Melo.)

Also, and this is key, what are AR and Moz doing in practice? And what is Donnie seeing out of those 2? Perhaps they are marinating quite nicely without the playing time. You never know. If DW likes what he sees, you go after Melo hard and don't look back cause you have your bigs solution right there on the bench.

if not, you have to think about how much you are giving up for Melo and if a team that is based around Amare/Melo/Felton can realistically get past Miami's Bosh/Wade/Lebron (I don't think so).

The Knicks and DW would also be remiss if they didn't periodically check in on Dwight Howard and Deron Williams (with all due respect to Felton who I love) behind the scenes.

TMS wrote:he's not that good... not a good rebounder for his size at all... for our needs if we're targetting a C first, we should be looking at guys like Camby, Chandler, Okafor, Dalembert... i'd even rather have Reggie Evans at the MLE than Nene at the money he's making.

"The difference is that in traditional offenses, they keep the other big in the middle," Knicks assistant coach Dan D'Antoni said. "…in our offense, that guy is on the outside, so when they come in to [guard the big man], we have a three open. That's why it works."

Further down in Martin's article it mentioned that the Knicks scout for players who can shoot the three when looking for point guards, Power Forwards and even Centers. There is a paradox here. First, the centers you suggestion for the Knicks don't necessarily meet with Mikes stated desire for them to be able to shoot from the outside. So why suggest players who don't fit the system? Later you are liable to complain why Mike doesn't give those players a chance get playing time and how he is wasting assets. If you want him to play someone, wouldn't it be beneficial if the person you want him to play fits his system properly?

rvwink wrote:

TMS wrote:he's not that good... not a good rebounder for his size at all... for our needs if we're targetting a C first, we should be looking at guys like Camby, Chandler, Okafor, Dalembert... i'd even rather have Reggie Evans at the MLE than Nene at the money he's making.

"The difference is that in traditional offenses, they keep the other big in the middle," Knicks assistant coach Dan D'Antoni said. "…in our offense, that guy is on the outside, so when they come in to [guard the big man], we have a three open. That's why it works."

Further down in Martin's article it mentioned that the Knicks scout for players who can shoot the three when looking for point guards, Power Forwards and even Centers. There is a paradox here. First, the centers you suggestion for the Knicks don't necessarily meet with Mikes stated desire for them to be able to shoot from the outside. So why suggest players who don't fit the system? Later you are liable to complain why Mike doesn't give those players a chance get playing time and how he is wasting assets. If you want him to play someone, wouldn't it be beneficial if the person you want him to play fits his system properly?

& how exactly does Nene fit the description of a perimeter shooting C for this system? my argument is i'd rather target guys who can actually rebound the ball to fill our need for a rebounder than one who doesn't... if we're looking for a C to fit MDA's system then we should be talking about guys like Andrea Bargnani or Mehmet Okur.

rvwink wrote:

TMS wrote:
my argument is i'd rather target guys who can actually rebound the ball to fill our need for a rebounder than one who doesn't... if we're looking for a C to fit MDA's system then we should be talking about guys like Andrea Bargnani or Mehmet Okur.

You actually think that the Knicks should be run based on what your basketball senses tell you to do. You think the Knicks need rebounding, and so thats what you want the Knicks to get. D'Antoni and Walsh are running the team and the best rebounder available isn't a good fit for the system that they are running.

Maybe you should consider rooting for a different team that has a similar basketball philosophy to yours. What is the logic behind suggesting players that aren't good fits for Mike's system? Even though you are not at the practices and therefore have only a small fraction of the data that Mike and his staff have at their disposal, what is the logic behind your demanding that MDA play AR?

& maybe you should learn how to carry on a conversation without being condescending to someone who doesn't share your point of view? or is your opinion the only one that matters in this conversation? i'm not the only one on this forum who thinks we need a rebounder if you hadn't noticed... just cuz someone doesn't agree with you, you gonna tell them to go root for another team... that's pretty effin' hilarious dude... get over yourself.

& what the hell does AR have to do w/this topic? we're talking about who we should target in free agency to fill the C position... i find it funny you're gonna lecture me about suggesting certain players that don't necessarily fit the style of basketball that MDA likes to run, & then you're gonna act like Nene Hilario somehow fits the bill... you're a funny guy.

rvwink wrote:Sorry to be condescending, that's not my intention and it is also not right. I will try harder to keep that from happening again.

I get frustrated by some of your posts because you seem to like telling MDA what to do, despite your not having access to what is happening in practice. In your repeated posts about MDA and AR, your tone seemed to indicate that you thought Mike was definitely wrong and how dare he hurt the team by not putting AR in. More recently, you have now posted 3 times a list of centers who you think we should trade for. I have been impressed by your knowledge of many NBA players, and so I simply don't understand what the point is of your repeatedly suggesting players that don't fit Mike's system? Mike started coaching in 2003. 8 years later have you seen him give consistent minutes to a conventional center yet?

rvwink--did you happen to watch last nights lAc Denver game? nene looked old and slow versus Deandre jordan who physically dominated him.

But I do have a problem with Deandre Jordan because after 2 years in the NBA he doesn't seem to be capable of shooting 50% from the free throw line yet. I certainly don't want to pretend that only I know what MDA wants, but I do think he wants to spread the floor with all 5 players and that requires a better shooting touch than Deandre possesses presently. Also he does seem a bit streaky and inconsistent. Even in his last 5 games, he is not rebounding strongly in each game.

Maybe I am just over sensitive but it actually bothered me that you seemed so upset. I think you will probably agree that Mike may be hard at work teaching AR what spots to occupy and who to pass to depending on each situation, the way he taught Wilson. If that is the case, and in AR doesn't have it all down yet, I just didn't understand what was bothering you so much.

It seems to me that Marcus is an older guy. Mike and Donnie are trying to put together a team that is going to be really good for a while, and I just don't see a piece like Camby being long term enough solution. It does take a while for a player to learn Mike's system. I have seen Nene score from the outside and he looked comfortable doing it. The measure I like to use in terms of shooting prowess is the percentage of foul shots made. Nene started around .560 in 2003 and is now up to .784 this year. I believe after participating in Mike's intensive shooting drills, he will be able to become a viable threat from the outside.

Nene clearly isn't ideal in every category, but his combination of speed and power is not quite up to Amare but still unusually good for a center. Add in good shooting technique and strong enough to defend in the paint, plus good passing, makes him a better fit than others that I see available. Also, apparently it is not just me. Two other posters here, see the same things I see in Nene. Just my 2 cents.