nixluva wrote:IF AR was ready to contribute he'd be playing, but remember too that he's not a C. Timo got some looks early cuz he's actually a C and not a SF/PF. AR isn't a very strong guy, so he's got to keep working on his strength as well as his understanding of the game.

If you're one of the Knicks in the rotation that has been winning, you're not gonna be happy if Mike gives AR minutes and he's messing up their flow. It's not fare to the guys that have worked hard and have real chemistry out there. LEt him earn his next shot. If he shows some improvement in practice I fully expect that Mike would give him a chance. Right now independent observers have said that he's still making dumb mistakes and zoning out. I'm hoping that he can pick it up sooner rather than later, cuz we could use his rebounding and shotblocking skills.

how does a player who's not ready to contribute put up the type of statlines i just listed last season? i don't buy that he's not ready... i don't think MDA wants to use him the way AR believes he can play & therein lies the problem... that's just my personal take from an outsider's point of view.

as for messing up the flow, MDA has gone on record saying he's looking for guys off the bench to contribute so he doesn't have to extend Amare & Ray so many minutes... in the past 2 games we've seen Bill Walker get minutes during games that had yet to be decided in MDA's search for someone who can contribute off the bench... in both of those games, Walker put up a pair of donuts... but i'm supposed to believe that a 23 yo 2nd round pick prospect that's averaged less than 6 pts & 2 rebounds per game over his short lived career is somehow more ready than Anthony Randolph, a lottery selection from just a couple years ago that averaged 12 & 7 last year? i'm having a hard time buying that reason.

right now i think AR's regression has more to do w/a loss of confidence than anything else... when you only see sporadic minutes in garbage play, it's gotta be hard to get into any kind of rhythm to show much of anything off the bench, especially when you know any minor mistake is gonna land you back into the coach's doghouse... right now if you pull Bill Walker out of the rotation & put AR in, i think any dissention or resentment from the rest of the players would be very minimal if any at all... these guys just wanna help this team win, bottomline... if AR has somehow made it known that he could give 2 shyts about helping the team win, then i can understand the reason for him not playing, but i haven't heard anything to suggest that at all.

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:IF AR was ready to contribute he'd be playing, but remember too that he's not a C. Timo got some looks early cuz he's actually a C and not a SF/PF. AR isn't a very strong guy, so he's got to keep working on his strength as well as his understanding of the game.

If you're one of the Knicks in the rotation that has been winning, you're not gonna be happy if Mike gives AR minutes and he's messing up their flow. It's not fare to the guys that have worked hard and have real chemistry out there. LEt him earn his next shot. If he shows some improvement in practice I fully expect that Mike would give him a chance. Right now independent observers have said that he's still making dumb mistakes and zoning out. I'm hoping that he can pick it up sooner rather than later, cuz we could use his rebounding and shotblocking skills.

how does a player who's not ready to contribute put up the type of statlines i just listed last season? i don't buy that he's not ready... i don't think MDA wants to use him the way AR believes he can play & therein lies the problem... that's just my personal take from an outsider's point of view.

as for messing up the flow, MDA has gone on record saying he's looking for guys off the bench to contribute so he doesn't have to extend Amare & Ray so many minutes... in the past 2 games we've seen Bill Walker get minutes during games that had yet to be decided in MDA's search for someone who can contribute off the bench... in both of those games, Walker put up a pair of donuts... but i'm supposed to believe that a 23 yo 2nd round pick prospect that's averaged less than 6 pts & 2 rebounds per game over his short lived career is somehow more ready than Anthony Randolph, a lottery selection from just a couple years ago that averaged 12 & 7 last year? i'm having a hard time buying that reason.

right now i think AR's regression has more to do w/a loss of confidence than anything else... when you only see sporadic minutes in garbage play, it's gotta be hard to get into any kind of rhythm to show much of anything off the bench, especially when you know any minor mistake is gonna land you back into the coach's doghouse... right now if you pull Bill Walker out of the rotation & put AR in, i think any dissention or resentment from the rest of the players would be very minimal if any at all... these guys just wanna help this team win, bottomline... if AR has somehow made it known that he could give 2 shyts about helping the team win, then i can understand the reason for him not playing, but i haven't heard anything to suggest that at all.

Just being able to put up stats means nothing when it comes to knowing how to play within a team concept. I've said many times that this offense requires a player truly understand what is happening and what he should be doing at all times. If AR was showing that in PRACTICE, i'm positive that he'd get to try to show it in games. His head is messed up in terms of fitting in with what's going on. He can't be out there bumping into guys or hanging out in no mans land cuz he doesn't know what to do or where to be. His regression is that he went thru pre-camp training and then Training camp and preseason and still hadn't picked up what was going on and what he needed to do.

Mike said: “He has to define his game,” D’Antoni said. “Defensively, rebounding, moving the ball on offense and not try to do too much. He’s got so much talent that he can do anything and go one-on-one against anybody. But at the end of the day, you got to be efficient, and that’s what we’re trying to get him to be, efficient.”

AR said: “I’ve shown in spurts what I can do, so whether or not I can play in this league is not a question,” Randolph said. “It’s just a matter of me learning and being a lot smarter about how I play.”

Walsh said: Walsh revealed that he and D’Antoni talked about it before he underwent surgery last, but he clarified that they still believe that Randolph would be an impact player and even an all-star once he learns to focus in every game.

“We talked about that and I fully supported it,” Walsh said in an interview with New York Post. “It's good for Anthony. It does him no good to go out there without a game to go to. He needs to work with coaches in defining how he can use his talent in a defined way. That's what he should be working on every day, so when he goes out there, he has a defined number of things.”

Alan Hahn: "If you could get Anthony Randolph to compete the way Knicks compete, he'd play. D'Antoni trusts this rotation bc they play hard."

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:IF AR was ready to contribute he'd be playing, but remember too that he's not a C. Timo got some looks early cuz he's actually a C and not a SF/PF. AR isn't a very strong guy, so he's got to keep working on his strength as well as his understanding of the game.

If you're one of the Knicks in the rotation that has been winning, you're not gonna be happy if Mike gives AR minutes and he's messing up their flow. It's not fare to the guys that have worked hard and have real chemistry out there. LEt him earn his next shot. If he shows some improvement in practice I fully expect that Mike would give him a chance. Right now independent observers have said that he's still making dumb mistakes and zoning out. I'm hoping that he can pick it up sooner rather than later, cuz we could use his rebounding and shotblocking skills.

how does a player who's not ready to contribute put up the type of statlines i just listed last season? i don't buy that he's not ready... i don't think MDA wants to use him the way AR believes he can play & therein lies the problem... that's just my personal take from an outsider's point of view.

as for messing up the flow, MDA has gone on record saying he's looking for guys off the bench to contribute so he doesn't have to extend Amare & Ray so many minutes... in the past 2 games we've seen Bill Walker get minutes during games that had yet to be decided in MDA's search for someone who can contribute off the bench... in both of those games, Walker put up a pair of donuts... but i'm supposed to believe that a 23 yo 2nd round pick prospect that's averaged less than 6 pts & 2 rebounds per game over his short lived career is somehow more ready than Anthony Randolph, a lottery selection from just a couple years ago that averaged 12 & 7 last year? i'm having a hard time buying that reason.

right now i think AR's regression has more to do w/a loss of confidence than anything else... when you only see sporadic minutes in garbage play, it's gotta be hard to get into any kind of rhythm to show much of anything off the bench, especially when you know any minor mistake is gonna land you back into the coach's doghouse... right now if you pull Bill Walker out of the rotation & put AR in, i think any dissention or resentment from the rest of the players would be very minimal if any at all... these guys just wanna help this team win, bottomline... if AR has somehow made it known that he could give 2 shyts about helping the team win, then i can understand the reason for him not playing, but i haven't heard anything to suggest that at all.

Just being able to put up stats means nothing when it comes to knowing how to play within a team concept. I've said many times that this offense requires a player truly understand what is happening and what he should be doing at all times. If AR was showing that in PRACTICE, i'm positive that he'd get to try to show it in games. His head is messed up in terms of fitting in with what's going on. He can't be out there bumping into guys or hanging out in no mans land cuz he doesn't know what to do or where to be. His regression is that he went thru pre-camp training and then Training camp and preseason and still hadn't picked up what was going on and what he needed to do.

Mike said: “He has to define his game,” D’Antoni said. “Defensively, rebounding, moving the ball on offense and not try to do too much. He’s got so much talent that he can do anything and go one-on-one against anybody. But at the end of the day, you got to be efficient, and that’s what we’re trying to get him to be, efficient.”

AR said: “I’ve shown in spurts what I can do, so whether or not I can play in this league is not a question,” Randolph said. “It’s just a matter of me learning and being a lot smarter about how I play.”

Walsh said: Walsh revealed that he and D’Antoni talked about it before he underwent surgery last, but he clarified that they still believe that Randolph would be an impact player and even an all-star once he learns to focus in every game.

“We talked about that and I fully supported it,” Walsh said in an interview with New York Post. “It's good for Anthony. It does him no good to go out there without a game to go to. He needs to work with coaches in defining how he can use his talent in a defined way. That's what he should be working on every day, so when he goes out there, he has a defined number of things.”

Alan Hahn: "If you could get Anthony Randolph to compete the way Knicks compete, he'd play. D'Antoni trusts this rotation bc they play hard."

all of that sounds reasonable, but i guess i just have a problem justifying all that when a guy like Bill Walker comes on the floor & contributes absolutely nothing in the past 2 games, or when i watch Gallo be invisible for entire halves of games, & then have to listen to MDA talk about how he's only looking for guys that can contribute when they're on the floor.

i just hope whatever it is that AR's not doing in practice gets resolved, & fast, cuz we need this kid in the rotation... & if he can't do the job, then we need to trade him for someone that can.

nixluva wrote:

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:IF AR was ready to contribute he'd be playing, but remember too that he's not a C. Timo got some looks early cuz he's actually a C and not a SF/PF. AR isn't a very strong guy, so he's got to keep working on his strength as well as his understanding of the game.

If you're one of the Knicks in the rotation that has been winning, you're not gonna be happy if Mike gives AR minutes and he's messing up their flow. It's not fare to the guys that have worked hard and have real chemistry out there. LEt him earn his next shot. If he shows some improvement in practice I fully expect that Mike would give him a chance. Right now independent observers have said that he's still making dumb mistakes and zoning out. I'm hoping that he can pick it up sooner rather than later, cuz we could use his rebounding and shotblocking skills.

how does a player who's not ready to contribute put up the type of statlines i just listed last season? i don't buy that he's not ready... i don't think MDA wants to use him the way AR believes he can play & therein lies the problem... that's just my personal take from an outsider's point of view.

as for messing up the flow, MDA has gone on record saying he's looking for guys off the bench to contribute so he doesn't have to extend Amare & Ray so many minutes... in the past 2 games we've seen Bill Walker get minutes during games that had yet to be decided in MDA's search for someone who can contribute off the bench... in both of those games, Walker put up a pair of donuts... but i'm supposed to believe that a 23 yo 2nd round pick prospect that's averaged less than 6 pts & 2 rebounds per game over his short lived career is somehow more ready than Anthony Randolph, a lottery selection from just a couple years ago that averaged 12 & 7 last year? i'm having a hard time buying that reason.

right now i think AR's regression has more to do w/a loss of confidence than anything else... when you only see sporadic minutes in garbage play, it's gotta be hard to get into any kind of rhythm to show much of anything off the bench, especially when you know any minor mistake is gonna land you back into the coach's doghouse... right now if you pull Bill Walker out of the rotation & put AR in, i think any dissention or resentment from the rest of the players would be very minimal if any at all... these guys just wanna help this team win, bottomline... if AR has somehow made it known that he could give 2 shyts about helping the team win, then i can understand the reason for him not playing, but i haven't heard anything to suggest that at all.

Just being able to put up stats means nothing when it comes to knowing how to play within a team concept. I've said many times that this offense requires a player truly understand what is happening and what he should be doing at all times. If AR was showing that in PRACTICE, i'm positive that he'd get to try to show it in games. His head is messed up in terms of fitting in with what's going on. He can't be out there bumping into guys or hanging out in no mans land cuz he doesn't know what to do or where to be. His regression is that he went thru pre-camp training and then Training camp and preseason and still hadn't picked up what was going on and what he needed to do.

Mike said: “He has to define his game,” D’Antoni said. “Defensively, rebounding, moving the ball on offense and not try to do too much. He’s got so much talent that he can do anything and go one-on-one against anybody. But at the end of the day, you got to be efficient, and that’s what we’re trying to get him to be, efficient.”

AR said: “I’ve shown in spurts what I can do, so whether or not I can play in this league is not a question,” Randolph said. “It’s just a matter of me learning and being a lot smarter about how I play.”

Walsh said: Walsh revealed that he and D’Antoni talked about it before he underwent surgery last, but he clarified that they still believe that Randolph would be an impact player and even an all-star once he learns to focus in every game.

“We talked about that and I fully supported it,” Walsh said in an interview with New York Post. “It's good for Anthony. It does him no good to go out there without a game to go to. He needs to work with coaches in defining how he can use his talent in a defined way. That's what he should be working on every day, so when he goes out there, he has a defined number of things.”

Alan Hahn: "If you could get Anthony Randolph to compete the way Knicks compete, he'd play. D'Antoni trusts this rotation bc they play hard."

CrushAlot wrote:I think the point about losing confidence, giving up, feeling like it doesn't matter how hard you work can't be forgotten. This is a 21 year old kid. He is the youngest player on the team, he has put up great numbers in the past, he was a lottery pick and he is the last guy off the bench when the coach clears the bench. If you want to say he is immature that is fine and it is normal for most 21 year olds. However, what is he supposed to think when he is always the first to be yelled at and the coaches last choice. Even if he was extremely mature emotionally that is going to have an impact on him. As a coach you can't discard talented guys because they need more from you then other guys on the team. Randolph is a 21 year old lottery pick not a 24 year old second round pick or free agent. He was the cornerstone in a trade for the Knicks best player last year. He is the youngest guy on the team. He needs more from the coach and that should be recognized. Some of this is on the player but this isn't the first time D'Antoni has chosen not to deal with young first round picks and lottery picks since he has coached the Knicks.

well said & i completely agree.

nixluva wrote:IF AR was ready to contribute he'd be playing, but remember too that he's not a C. Timo got some looks early cuz he's actually a C and not a SF/PF. AR isn't a very strong guy, so he's got to keep working on his strength as well as his understanding of the game.

If you're one of the Knicks in the rotation that has been winning, you're not gonna be happy if Mike gives AR minutes and he's messing up their flow. It's not fare to the guys that have worked hard and have real chemistry out there. LEt him earn his next shot. If he shows some improvement in practice I fully expect that Mike would give him a chance. Right now independent observers have said that he's still making dumb mistakes and zoning out. I'm hoping that he can pick it up sooner rather than later, cuz we could use his rebounding and shotblocking skills.

Papabear Says

I don't trust Mike D. He is a coach with one way or the highway. Playing a small line up may get us wins but we go nowhere in the playoffs. What good would it mean if another good player comes here and Mike D refuse to play. The Knicks are winning games inspite of Mike D. You remember what Amare said the he was never really taught defense and it wasn't important on Mike D's teams. He de-values our bench players and we get nothing for them. I wish the Knicks trade AR to a team that will play him. I predict that Mike D will be gone within a year.

Juice wrote:

TMS wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I think the point about losing confidence, giving up, feeling like it doesn't matter how hard you work can't be forgotten. This is a 21 year old kid. He is the youngest player on the team, he has put up great numbers in the past, he was a lottery pick and he is the last guy off the bench when the coach clears the bench. If you want to say he is immature that is fine and it is normal for most 21 year olds. However, what is he supposed to think when he is always the first to be yelled at and the coaches last choice. Even if he was extremely mature emotionally that is going to have an impact on him. As a coach you can't discard talented guys because they need more from you then other guys on the team. Randolph is a 21 year old lottery pick not a 24 year old second round pick or free agent. He was the cornerstone in a trade for the Knicks best player last year. He is the youngest guy on the team. He needs more from the coach and that should be recognized. Some of this is on the player but this isn't the first time D'Antoni has chosen not to deal with young first round picks and lottery picks since he has coached the Knicks.

well said & i completely agree.

Not to mention why does the coach's execution of roster often times not match the GM's assessment and expectation of talent? WU said he thought AR had probably the most upside of the 2008 draft, was he saying this for media filler? I doubt it! Was he saying this to up his trade value? I doubt it! yet AR got 10gms or thereabouts to get it together, that's a pretty short leash. And once you get out of favor with D'Antoni there's almost no coming back. I'd never want to play for this guy period not if I'm a young player.

it's hard to predict w/this coach cuz he didn't have a problem developing Amare who came in straight from HS & had maturity issues of his own to deal with at that age... if MDA can do it for Amare i don't see why he can't for AR, but why he's having such a problem getting through to this kid is anyone's guess... & the short leash can't be helping this kid's confidence level whatsoever... if anything it's making him press even harder to try to do something to impress this coach & his teammates anytime he can get on the floor, even in garbage time, which probably leads to him making even more mistakes than he normally would.

TMS wrote:

nixluva wrote:I actually hope we hold on to AR regardless. I'm not so hung up on this one season. I want this team to act like we've got time cuz we do. Who cares if we win a title 2 years from now so long as we win the title. I don't see a reason to give up on a kid with this much talent and potential when we'll likely not get much back for him and then have to watch him blossom somewhere else. I treat him like a rookie. I don't care that he's played a couple of NBA games. I say Donnie don't give in to the pressure. Keep the kid and continue to develop him. He's not hurting us by treating him as a long term project.

Who knows he might explode later in the season and be the answer to our problems. KEEP'EM!!!

if MDA isn't gonna use him this year, i say we trade him for someone he can... if he's a part of a trade to bring in someone like Melo, Iggy, Camby, etc. for example, then i think we have to make the move rather than pass up a chance to upgrade the talent on our team waiting for MDA to finally see the light on this kid at some point how many years down the road... i don't toss him away for garbage obviously, but how long do you hold onto a kid who's currently the last option off the bench?

Papabear Says

Mike D has killed this kids value. What kind of ball does Walsh have? He needs to tell Mike D to play the kid. Like I said this team is winning in spite of Mike D. You take Amare away from the Knicks and you have a worst team than last year almost with the exception of Chandler becoming an allstar type player. If Amare goes down we are done. We are an lottery team again.